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FILM.TV
Adnane Ben.
Boston USA
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126
comments.
The Passion Of The Christ
12:00:00 AM Monday Mar 8, 2004



I came across this page while looking for detail on the death of Jesus in Islam. Kind of interesting. Most modern muslim scholars are dismissive of the events, and it seems that Ahmed Didat is the only one who's gone into any length in studying this subject. Ibn Kuthair in his Qessas Al anbya'e has a lot of details about the birth of Jesus but little on his death or on his growing up as a matter of fact (maybe I haven't read far enough). The Quran makes a reference that "it only appeared to them that they crucified him;". Can anyone shed some light and give us any references?

Mel Gibson has recently produced the movie "The Passion Of The Christ" which reveals the last 12 hours of Jesus, according to the movie synopsis. If you've seen the movie, share your reviews with us.

The content of this page —graphics, text and other elements—is © Copyright 2007 prospective author, and Raioo, Inc., only when stated otherwise, and may not be reprinted or retransmitted in whole or in part without the expressed written consent of the publisher.



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8:48 pm    April 12, 2004
Khalil
126
Hi everybody,

I was surpprised about the way some people think about Islam. No matter what, it will be the last religion for humanity at the end of this world, and you will see.

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5:41 pm    March 29, 2004
kinouch
125
http://users.skynet.be/yassine/barnab.htm
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11:10 am    March 20, 2004 This is an unrelated or foul message..
Sexi_Arabian187
124
hammer dont beef my girl K? or i'll hit you with a hammer..

and another thing learn how to write wtf is a G**..anyways im not here just to start moushkelia here..im here to talk about the PASSIONS OF THE CHRIST..i'v never seen it before but i heard it was a magnifisint movie and that Mel Gibson did an awesome job with creating this movie...i'v always asked m self what made MEL Gibson to creat this movie..and then one of my friends told me that...Mel Gibson wanted to commit suiced because their was lots of l7ham in his life with his career..but then later he thought about it and said he saw some kinda sign from god or w/e..but i dunt know if its true or not..well anyways i gotta go..shokran buh bye..oh and another thing the friend i was talking to you about that i was going to the movies with is LA*BELLA*MAFIA* so dont F*ck with her..(HAMMER) buh bye..serit' khara!

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9:19 am    March 20, 2004 This is an unrelated or foul message..
hammer
123
salam
first of all,Thank you for your stupid comment,but i think you didn't get it and you will never get it with your G** attitude.
you know what just get you a life man
peace up LA*BELLA*MAFIA you are not going tyo have a baby because you are a man or a lesbian
get you a life
My idea was that the holly quran stated this truth and no other religion did
you know i think you are just narrow minded
again again again may god forgive you
bye
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5:28 pm    March 19, 2004 This is an unrelated or foul message..
Sexi_Arabian187
122
say what? ..what do u mean this is not a childrens playground? ...and i agree with ur idea
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4:31 pm    March 19, 2004

Adnane Ben. message
121
114
What do you want to discuss exactly? how about if you put your topic suggestion in a clear paragraph, make it interesting to us, rather than put it as vaguely as "discuss madrid attacks". Do you have a pitch about it? a bottom line? try to come up with something then propose it here and we'll all gladly look at it. I encourage raioosters to look at the topics proposed and comment on them, so I get a feel what you folks want to discuss among the proposals.

Please folks, do some homework, as much as you can, about the topic you'd like to propose. Sometimes people throw topics in the air in one sentence and expect raioo to find interesting links, create a pitch and bottom line. It's ok sometimes, no problem, but it would be great if you folks do the research before you submit a proposal. Some of you have done that in the past and it made it nice and easy to quickly turn it into a concrete discussion.

Thanks!

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4:20 pm    March 19, 2004 This is an unrelated or foul message..

Adnane Ben. message
120
119
Last warning. This is not a children playground.
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3:56 pm    March 19, 2004 This is an unrelated or foul message..
obnoxious
LA*BELLA*MAFIA*
119
hammer..thank you for that health lesson..like we dont know how to make freakin' babies..and have..**u know**..k well..honestly know one really knows the answer about god and his **holy quran**...just live life...to the fullest..thats all i gotta say buh bye!!

morocco/fez

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9:08 am    March 19, 2004
hammer
118
salam
i have an answer to all people who didn't think that the holly quran is from good.I will give comment scientifically not even religiously.
First of all, do you all notice that the quran was sent in the 7 centery,and at that time people didn't know how a humain being is created.The holly Quran give specific step on that(IT SAYS THAT WE ARE CREATED FROM SEXUAL RELATION BETWEEN A MAN AND WOME EVEN GO DEEPLY ON THAT BY DESCRIBINGTHE TRONSFORMATIO IN THE MOTHER BODY FROM THE FIRST STEP THE SPUMS MIX WITH THE WOMEN EGGS AND TRANSFORM TO A BABY THEN TO A HUMAIN BEING.)
Now people smart Scientifics said that they found scientifically miracle by tracking how the baby is created in the women body.is that not amazing .we have know the truth since 7 century am i right or no peolpe.
for the convert christian where do you thing that come from God who said that by the tongue fo his prophete or a person who didn't even know how to read and write
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1:28 am    March 19, 2004
Jihad-Buster
117
For your inforamtion the Roman and the Byzantine empire, the Egyptian pre-Islamic history,and the Greek humanistic tradion produced a long lasting civilsation 1o times greater than the Islamic civilisation.Nobody is denying the contribution of Muslims to world civilisation.But Muslims themeselves has to rely on Greek civilisation. So stop think that Islam is superior to all others civilisation.All religions are valid for people who believe in them.Islam is no better than other religions.
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12:50 am    March 19, 2004
Damir_mostatir
116
113
Could anyone of you guys marry the ex-wife of his step son ?
Please, avoid talking about the history of China or Turkey, just unswer by "YES" or "NO" !

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12:45 am    March 19, 2004
Busy
115
Hello Adnane, Negotiator and everyone else in here!
I want to tell you that I like this topic! its hot! we have people from different sides! I just hope that people who criticise are doing so with a goal to learn or to find truth and not a goal triggered by "the I will win" syndrome or the "I am good you re not" or "The I am the smart one" syndromes!!....
Ok, I want to discuss a bit about the Abdul Saleeb essay that was brought by Adnane in his last post.
The guy in his essay said that he was puzzeled when he was asked one simple question: "HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THE QURAN IS THE WORD OF GOD?"
A question that has been asked here before! and some of the answers were that the quran is different from anybook, that it is very powerful in emotions, full of scientifiic truths and so on!!
I was looking at this matter and I found, a website that explains in a very detailed way this issue:

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/

The guy (abdul Saleeb) who converted to christianity, from what I understood, didn't have a clear understanding of islam! he learned things just by accepting rather than by understanding! When he went to Europe he had questions, and he found their answers from people who surrounded him (who were christians) and when he sent a letter to his homeland they answered him to focus on his studies which shows that they kind of rejected his questioning! however I think he took the rejection personally and it ampliified his shaken distorted view of islam and muslims! leading him to the path of chrisitanity!
I belive that if he were in a muslim country and asked his questions to a man of knowledge he would have gotten the answers in a very fulfilling way.
Also, I am a bit puzzeled. How come he writes a book about islam and he doesn't profoundly know much about islam!??? ( I repeat what I mean from knowing is understang not passively accepting and memorizing what people in our surrounding used to tell us!)
And again I stand by my point (in my earlier postings) that is that religion is a mixture of certainty and uncertainty! and this mixture is what keeps people growing and expanding withing their religions! It could have been absolute certainty if God wanted it like that! But then if it is it wouldn't really be serving the spiritual needs of humans espcially the need for uncertainy! and there will be no spiritual growing or perhaps no more curiosity among humans!

About the years where muslims were the big civilisation! I have to say one thing! at that time security on earth reached a level that it didn't reach in anyother time! people were developing in a very fast pace! I suspect that it was faster than the pace we are growing in these centuries! I mean they went from total jahiliya (tkhalof) to total developement in a matter of few decades! Also, The muslims at that time, must be credited for something that is serving us right now! That is not the fact that they invented/discovered the 0 or algorithms! but because they were the ones who translated most ancient sciences and philosophies including the ones of the Romans and Greeks!!!!
Also one improtant thing to note, is that the Islamic revolution lasted 600 years! that's twice the time America has ever existed!!!!!


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12:02 am    March 19, 2004
Mad
114
Adnane I asked you a few days ago to open a thread about the recent terrorist attacks in Madrid because it seem like it's that Moroccans extremists are implicated in these odious acts.Instead you choose to keep this old topic,who care if Jesus was crucified or not.Your silence on most important issues is strange.Unless you or one of your Islamists buddies are behind theses acts,I don't see why we can't talk about it.In fact all moroccans newspapers all talking about it.You think by not discussing something ,you can pretend that it doesn't exist.Wishfull thinking, maybe the jews or the CIA did it.You keep on burring your head in the sand, don't see nothing ,don't know nothing.Time for reality check. Moroccan terrorists do exist,it's an indeniable fact.You just kind hide it anymore,the whole world know it..
·

10:08 pm    March 18, 2004

Adnane Ben. message
113
95
Ali, you have the right to ask questions, although sometimes they sound like coming from the mouth of a six years old, but usually those are the hardest questions. I just notice Ali that what is missing from your questions, is updating us with your new findings as I am sure you are researching on your own, talking to people of all walks of life, trying to find an answer somewhere somehow. If you are just asking people here questions, without contributing yourself with updates, then I don't see much progress. Probably people will be more attracted to discussing with you when they see less repetition of questions.

I found this essay that might interest you. It's by an ex-Muslim who spent time researching prophet Jesus and ended up converting to Christianity. Apparently he realized that the Bible is more a word of God than the Quran. You on the other hand think that neither the Bible nor the Quran give a good explanation of Jesus. I'm not sure how credible the essay or the web site is but here it is anyways.. (A Muslim Looks at Muhammad and Jesus - The Story of Abdul Saleeb)

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9:47 pm    March 18, 2004

Adnane Ben. message
112
97
Definitely Rissala is a classic. I wonder though why is it controvertial to portrait prophet Mohammed with an actor? prophet Mohammed was human after all. Is there a verse or hadith that prohibits the use of an image or actor to portrait the prophet? Maybe the question I'm more interested in is what does it mean to you to see an actor acting the role of prophet Mohammed in a movie? will it change your perception of the prophet? of his message? of islam?

My other comment is I hope the new television channel Bridges that will open in the US dedicated for Arabic programming will at some point translate to English some of those wonderful history episodes like Ibn Taimiya, Jamal Din Al-afghani, Mohammed Abdou, and others I enjoyed a lot back home. Those series used to motivate young people to read about history, make them aware of the challenges of society, and keep them in touch with their religion.

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6:23 pm    March 18, 2004
nabilino
111
DOK, dude can't you say something if you have to, instead of copy pasting those links here and there, this is a forum where we exprime notre points de vue...
ok back to the subject diall ssiyed Adnane...passion of the christ got B- on yahoo reviews...i'm not planning on watching it on the theatre, maybe i'll wait til it comes out on dvd.see what Mel had to say.
by the way, got a question...how do you guys feel seeing reports saying that Moroccans were behind the Madrid Attacks?
matkich bladi a bourass >:(
Peace
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2:02 pm    March 18, 2004

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
110
107
Again you missed the Point,
Education doesn?t mean ONLY go to Universities and Schools etc. There are people who have never been to school and yet they can hold a better conversation.
You need some education in discussing subjects, how to treat people... how to prove your points without insulting people. Without misunderstanding points, without making judgments, without stereotyping etc.....


I never said I know a lot about Islam, but still I know more than what you think (^_^). I might not be able to talk about a lot of subjects but still I can talk about more subjects than you can imagine. I might be an Islamic Fanatic BUT that shouldn?t make you say Morocco is now producing all kinds of extremists and fanatics cause again that is Generalizing.
And then last, my English might be Terrible; I never claimed my English was the best. But to criticize my English did you look at yours? Well jmell kaychouf ghir 7dibt sa7bou (^-^) here look again at your message , we can use it as a Quiz [[how many errors can we find in it]] :

{{that I need and education.So Nego you think you're an educated man? Can you please enlighten us,for exemple you educated in what? and by who?and wich university you went to ,the university of Kabul,Kandahr or Tora Bora mountains In an other word what credentials u have to qualify as a learned
man?You seem to be unable to talk about anything else besides Islam.Your reasonning skill (logic) is poor,and your English is terrile.I don't even think you know lot about Islam ,your religious fanticism is very abvious.No wonder Morocco now is producing all kinds of kind of extremists and fanatics.Instead of exporting goods and services, Morocco is now exporting terrorists.Don't belive it? just read the news,Moroccans are making headlines these days.Little knoweledge is a dangerous thing}}

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1:01 pm    March 18, 2004
dok
109
www.ahmed-deedat.com
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12:56 pm    March 18, 2004
dok
108
Amad-didat
http://www.islampedia.com/MIE2/audio/lectures/Didat26A.asf
http://www.islampedia.com/MIE2/audio/lectures/Didat26B.asf
http://www.islampedia.com/MIE2/audio/lectures/Didat26C.asf
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12:47 pm    March 18, 2004
anti-Negociator
107
that I need and education.So Nego you think you're an educated man? Can you please enlighten us,for exemple you educated in what? and by who?and wich university you went to ,the university of Kabul,Kandahr or Tora Bora mountains In an other word what credentials u have to qualify as a learned
man?You seem to be unable to talk about anything else besides Islam.Your reasonning skill (logic) is poor,and your English is terrile.I don't even think you know lot about Islam ,your religious fanticism is very abvious.No wonder Morocco now is producing all kinds of kind of extremists and fanatics.Instead of exporting goods and services, Morocco is now exporting terrorists.Don't belive it? just read the news,Moroccans are making headlines these days.Little knoweledge is a dangerous thing.
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12:17 pm    March 18, 2004

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
106
103
Rasta,

There are enough wealthy individuals in the Islamic world, who could afford investing money in big budget movies, unfortunately it is common knowledge that the Arab nations do not consider creativity as a serious business. would it be scientific or artistic...


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12:00 pm    March 18, 2004
Casablancaise
105
Without a doubt the most powerful film that I have ever seen. This left me shaken for days. Whether or not you are of Christian faith, this tells an amazing story of how Jesus suffered for what he believed the salvation of the christians.Anyone who says this movie is anti-semitic, or simply gory violence, is either in denial of the truth about evil human nature .Although very graphic and hard to watch at times it was truly well put together. It is very disturbing so be prepared to leave the movie heavy hearted. Bring kleenex with you...Mel Gibson has made a masterpiece that will shine above all others. He has pulled out all the stops. He has foresaken the usual hollywood hype, left out the attractive actors/actress\'s, used the hebrew , aramiac and latin languages and made it feel as though you where there.I have great respect for him as a person and a director/producer/writer/actor.
Take care
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11:29 am    March 18, 2004

Rasta Gnawi message
104
98
Nego dude,
You gotta lot of passion. You gotta mellow down a little.
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11:27 am    March 18, 2004

Rasta Gnawi message
103
99
I agree. You need lots of money. But $25mln for over $200mln in revenues is not a bad investment. It doesn't have to be a Holywood movie. There is an audience in Europe, Africa and Asia that makes good sense.

Who produced Arrissala?

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11:08 am    March 18, 2004
lococo72
102
salam alykom
MR 7areg
where are u ? we didnt hear from a long time about the new upcoming arabic movie about one of the leaders in our islamic history
this is my own opinion
we probably could make big movie about one of the khoulafa rachideen but i dont think it will reach the whole world because the media wont even try to talk about it so it wont be that famous and also because they know whenever they try to talk about something related to islam it\'s like they admit islam as the last religion and of course they dont want that
to reach million of poeple the movie need to be in english and need to be made by one of the biggest hollywood director for exemple( night shyamalan) and that case we may hear some
something...
salam alykom
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10:31 am    March 18, 2004

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
101
100
khasna nchoufou m3a Adnane, to do somekind of a surprise to that(you in this case) who posts the 100th message, b7al f super market when you are the million'th sustomer wella chi 7aja b7al hakkak.....
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9:19 am    March 18, 2004

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
100
99
99 posts so far...
I wonder who is going to make it 100 ...? :/

Ooops... hehe

(>:p

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9:11 am    March 18, 2004

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
99
97
Producing a movie of that caliber about an islamic personality or era requires adequate settings, adequat equipements, adequate expertise in film making , adequate music, and adequate advertising. All of the above requires alot of money.

It took M.Gibson $ 25 millions to put the last 12 hours of Jesus on the screen. A Muslim movie director would have to overthrow his governement to come up with that kind of money... ;)

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9:08 am    March 18, 2004

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
98
Ali,
This is exactly why i don`t think discussions with you will lead to any points, you always go aside from the main points, you always bring up small details and make judgments about them, If i talked about Islam's previous Glory, why would you link that to King Ismail??? i mean can`t you use just a bit of ta matiere grise??? and even if he had 1000 kid, why would you make the judgment upon only this, you should not generalize.
Regarding your point that you are trying to make me understand, i guess you did not understand my point, let me lay down to you in details, when we talk about civilisations, and who was advanced and who was not, we talk about a certain time. Yes Muslims now are much advanced than the Muslims back in Early Years, but Muslims now are they more civilized more advanced than other nations?? NO-NO-NO we are considered the lowest of the lower nations compared to others,USA-EUROPE-CHINA- etc...
Back when Muslims were not as civilized as those Muslims now, they did not have toilet paper, they did not have Internet, they did not have a lot of thing we have now, BUT they were teh most civilized nation in Earth, Europeans sent their kids to study in Baghdad, in Andalousia etc...
By this judgment you multiply by 0 all the work that Previous nations did, if newton did not find alajadibia-if addisson did not invent the Electricity- etc would we be where we are now? would you be using your Internet?
Another example, The Romans when they were the most powerful army in Earth, and Morocco who does not have the best army now, if both fight, certainly morocco will destroy them!!! but we still gonna say that the Romans were more advanced than the moroccans.

It is not ok to criticize some body if you can`t offer better than them.
There is a difference between asking questions , and criticizing. you only ask questions to criticize.
tehre are answers but you always find critics to the answers.

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8:26 am    March 18, 2004

Rasta Gnawi message
97
92
Adnane,
There are a number of very good movies. They are not as promoted as the Passion, but take Arrisala for example. I thought that the Passion flowed exactly the same as the Rissala movie. When they were persecuting 3issa in the street, it was almost the same scene as when they persecuted Mohammed pbuh and his companions. Anyway, Arrisala is worth another viewing.
There is also an Iranian movie on Jesus that takes its facts from the Quran. That one is great. I saw it last year in Ramadan. There is the story of Rabi3a al 3adawiyah. There are many, they're just not promoted. Also, not being able to show faces of prophets makes kind of hard to get people excited about it, since a movie kind of needs to portray emotions through body expressions.
Happy couscous. I might make it there.
Amine
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8:11 am    March 18, 2004

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
96
90
Anti Negotiator/Momo/Man/Mad,
I`m really scared, seriously you scared me a lot, not because you will call 911, no because you will have problems in your life, you don`t seem to take time when you read postings, you just assume things, if you really want to do a favor for your self get some education( first time i agree with Ali) here you go re-read what i said

[[[ when some one who is a Muslim curse ALLAH, that is BAD, and if Islam was applied that person shuld be KILLED, you know 7ukm almurtadd]]]

where is the Threat??

Yet you said it was ok if i told you that you will go to Hell, who am i to know that?? i would never say such a thing, simply cause i donb`t have the keys to Hell or Heaven.

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6:59 am    March 18, 2004
Ali
95
94
Dear adnane:

1. Whoever posted message 93 is NOT me "Ali with a heart".

2. Can you please remind the users of this forum to pick their own nicknames in order to avoid confusion. Thanks!

Dear anti-Negotiator,

1. I did not post message 93. It's somebody else. so I am not attacking you. Whoever did the post should apologize!

Dear Negotiator:

I quote you:

"those people who were here before us and made the past Muslims Glory an Inner Desire to do what they have done, BUT they were still practicing Islam Better than us, finding time to read Quran and knowing the religion"

My answer:

1. What makes you so sure that the Old Islam is better than the current Islam (Should I say that Islam 1.0 is now better than Islam.2004)?

2. Did something change about Islam as we move from century to century?

3. What Glory are you talking about? If you remember King Ismail of Morocco had 500 boys and 500 girls. This means he married everything with vagina!. Boy the old Islam is better than the new one.!

I quote you:

"Muslim curse ALLAH, that is BAD, and if Islam was applied that person shuld be KILLED, you know 7ukm almurtadd"

My answer:

1. Negotiator, you are doing a disservice to Islam by using (Islam and Kill) in the same sentence. Do not blame the West when they use (Islam and Terrorism) in the same sentence.

2. I personally think that people, even Muslims like myself (I know!!!, my Islam 2.2), should be praised for questioning the Koran, Allah, Prophets, Angels, etc...There is no such thing as a 100% pure Muslim. In fact, I challenge you to define a finite set of requirements for a person to be defined as 100% Muslim (yes, I know about the 5 pillars of Islam, they are not enough my friend!)

3. In the majority of my posts, I question the assertions made by many religious people. I get angry replies (very much expected!) but very few answers.

4. The topic of this discussion is Jesus' birth/death/disappearance. I said that both the Koran and the Bible did a poor job explaining this fairy tale. I have yet to get some real answers that make sense. Yes, Negotiator gave us a list of what Jesus will do when he comes back, most of it is very scary (Islam and Scary in the same sentence is bad!).

5. To be honest with you, If the only purpose of Jesus' comeback is to kill the "addajjal", massacres, etc..., I am not looking forward to his return (In fact, humanity should deny him a visa to come to earth!)

I quote you:

"early Muslims followed islam better than we do, and yet they were more advanced than we are now"

My answer:

1. You are kidding me. More advanced in what field? Space, computers, heart surgeries, Oil drilling, Internet chat rooms, etc...I think you get the point (During their time, they did not have toilet paper, most of them died from poor hygiene!)

Finally,

WHILE(Jesus is not here yet)
{

1. It's OK to criticize the Koran and the Bible, etc...

2. It's OK to criticize Allah

3. It's OK to criticize Mohammed (PBUH)

4. It's OK to criticize Jesus (PBUH)

5. It's OK to question abstract fairytales (such as the coming of Jesus, Israa Wa alMiarajj, Heaven and Hell)

6. We are all humans and we are doing our best in this life journey. We will make mistakes. We will fall and get up. That's life.

7. There is no difference between a Muslim and a non Muslim (labels divide humans). To humans, try your best to do well to you and to others. Allah will understand!

8. We are humans and we demand clear answers. If we do not get them, we will continue going back to "item 1 of this list" until Jesus comes and "kick our A$$es"

}

Jazzakomo Allaho Khairan Wa ssalam

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12:47 am    March 18, 2004
anti-Negociator
94
Ali,where have you been man? I really miss your posts,I find your Islam 2.2 very intresting.All others raiooters think you're a charlatan or a false prophet.But I'm your biggest fan on this forum.So I don't understand why you attacking me.
Tell me I did wrong, a guy make a death threat against me because I'm a "Murtadd" who no longer believe in Islam ,so he think I should be KILLED.In a civilized society when someone make threats against you you call the police. So I don't understand why u calling me a barbarian ,and a villager in need of education instead of justice and etc.I think the real bararian is someone who want to KILL you simply because you think differently.
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10:05 pm    March 17, 2004
Ali
93
Anti-negotiator or Momo or whoever you are! You are like those village guys with their wild police-men fantasies! I think what you should call is a help center. You really need a lot of help! Probably the best thing you could do with your phone is to call a school. Education is good for you!! Oh probably you need evidence for this too!...
·

9:34 pm    March 17, 2004

Adnane Ben. message
92
I haven't seen the movie yet, but it's interesting to hear the movie generated $260 million already. Gibson self-financed the movie with $25 million. He nailed it right; he seems to have taken advantage of the "religious" conflict going on in the world nowadays. The buzz world is "religion". From the war on terrorism, to the chruch sex scandals. He didn't even have to work too hard to come up with a script. At any rate, I bet you we will see more biblical movies coming up soon trying to take advantage of the publicity and momentum this movie has stirred among christians, jews and muslims alike. The proof: this discussion was started to discuss some details of the life of prophet Jesus from the pespective of Islam.

It's probably a good time for a Muslim producer to do a movie that touches on an important historical event in the Arab history, to which everyone can relate to. I wonder what event would that be? Maybe a true story narrating a tale of a Caliph? Maybe the details of the fall of Baghdad to the Moguls and how it was rebuilt by the Moguls themselves later on? The last time such a movie saw light was Lawrence of Arabia, if I am not wrong.

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9:32 pm    March 17, 2004
lococo72
91
Salam alykom
To all brothers and sisters I?m trying to read what others people are posting in here
but I think Mister AMINE the guy who propose this subject didn?t even think it will go that far, we got to the point where people are threatening others because they tried to share their opinion or say something they think they should say (in our religion we should defend anything we think it?s against what we believe in that?s part of our ?iman?)
so we should keep the discussion clean and just say what?s in our mind and everybody is free to say whatever he think it?s right of course some others people will be offended by a comment but they should respond to it with respect and that?s of course will show their level of education
Mister ADNANE, I still didn?t hear from you I?m trying to use my computer at my house but I still can only read (HERE IS MY EMAIL LOCOCO72@RAIOO.COM)
Salamo alykom
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8:41 pm    March 17, 2004
anti-Negociator
90
Listen islamy boy
Under US law making a death threat is felony.
I can't believe u just that, a "al Murtadd" a person who no longer believe in Islam SHOULD BE KILLED. If you say that I'll go "Hahanam" because I don't believe in Islam that's ok because I don't think your Islamic Hell or Paradise exist. BUT making a fucking death threat is a serious crime.I know you live in the US,I can make just one phone call to FBI and you'll find yourself in Guatanamo Bay. I don't think they have access to computers there.So keep quiet or I'll send your Islamist Ass to Guatanamo Bay.

·

2:43 pm    March 17, 2004

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
89
Why is it that whenever someone talks about Religion/Islam he is Jiahdi/islamist .....
Isn`t this somekind of brain washing ?? something that reminds us of the famouse saying of Mr Bush ( Either with us or Against us )
La 7awla wala9ouatta illa billah.


7wayjii is not in Germany (^_^)

·

2:40 pm    March 17, 2004

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
88
Garcia,
Yes Man is Momo and now is Mad, see what i mean people try to post different messages with different nicks to show that not only one person shares his ideas.
Momo said that teh misery of teh muslim world is because they are spending too much time on religion and reading Quran, you said that he made a nice comment, which means that you share his Idea- if not then i`m sorry i misunderstood what you said.
Yes i agree there was in those people who were here before us and made the past Muslims Glory an Inner Desire to do what they have done, BUT they were still practicing Islam Better than us, finding time to read Quran and knowing the religion. Momo's point was that because Muslims are focusing now on religion and reading Quran that`s why they are miserable. but the example i showed him shows that Religion was never an Obstacle to advance , even in this Era we find Islamic scholars that have PHDs in Mathematics, Physics, etc....To say that we are weak because we spend too much in religion doesn`t have any basics.

I agree Allah told us ( Idda sami3toum ayati allahi youkfarou biha wa youstahza2ou biha, fala ta93oudou ma3ahoum 7atta yakhoudou fi 7aditin ghayrih) but i said is when some one who is a Muslim curse ALLAH, that is BAD, and if Islam was applied that person shuld be KILLED, you know 7ukm almurtadd... the ayah talked about alkafiroun, and who ever sits with people who are making fun of ayate allah is like them, and then ALLAH continues and said that he willgather both teh hypocrites and the unbelievers in Jahannam.
There other stories to show that alghayrah for islam and Muslims is a must, Just like ghazwat banu 9aynou9a3, a jew tied the dress of a muslim woman to a pin on the ground, so when she stood up her dress was taken off , and she was naked there. just for that the Prophet(PBUH) ordered the jews to get out of town, or he would fight them, and they did.

Momo/Man
I didn`t claim that muslims reached the Top by following only islam to the letter, what i said is your claims that Relgion and reading Quran is taking our time from doing other things, so i just showed you that early Muslims followed islam better than we do, and yet they were more advanced than we are now. no need to switch the subject.
Allah helps every body not only Muslims, ALLAH said that he will help people who work hard either they were muslims or not, the only difference is that Muslims get rewarded here and the here after,as for the unbelievers they only get rewarded here, so what Your bush is getting is only what he worked for. if our muslim leaders work hard to get what they want they will get it.
And i`m not in Germany.
and yes Man = Momo = Mad.

·

2:23 pm    March 17, 2004
Sphinx
87
86
Chill out !
that site if for computer hackers ...nothing more nothing less...
·

12:46 pm    March 17, 2004
Mad
86
Listen jihadi boy
Stop promoting terrorism while hiding behind Islam
Moroccans are peacefull Muslims and don't need an idiot like you reminding them of their Islamic dutie.
So what you doing in Germany ? planning another 9/11?
Jihad for dummies
·

12:26 pm    March 17, 2004
Man
85
Nego the great islamist thinker
Wow man ,i'm really impressed by your ability to solve problem.Very simple just follow Islam 100% and all your problems will be solved.You're an islamist genius.
You claim that Muslims reached the top of the world simply by following following Islam to the letter.
For your information during the height of islamic civilisation (the abassid period) muslims were more tolerants and less religious than they're now.Just read Ibn Khaldoun's "Introduction To History",he decribed in detail how people used to live at that time.
After Muslims were kicked out of Spain they went back to Islam en masse thinking that lack of religious practice was the reason of their decline.But things just got worse for the muslims no matter how much they prayed.So 600 years after losing Andalousia muslims are still weak.Certainly paracticing islam didn't help.
This prouve that your argument is wrong and misleading and pure nonsense.Bad medicine
Great civilisation have risen and felt without the help of Allah, the roman empire,the phoenecian,the greek and the bynantine and even the chineses had a graet civilasation.Are you going to deny all that?
You're not going to tell me that the great Roman empire felt simply because the Romans have stopped following Islam
Come on Islamy boy get real,things are more complicated than you think. If we follow your logic Bush "nassaraho allah " must be following Islam unknowinly it,that's why he's got to rule the world.Time to take your mind to the cleaner,clearly the islamist propaganda is clouding your judgement.
P.S. Man is not Momo
·

12:09 pm    March 17, 2004

Rasta Gnawi message
84
Negotiator,

So the two are one and the same. I didn't know that, and I concede. It would seem silly to throw in comments just for the sake of unnerving people.

Then you go on saying that myself and Man think that the misery is in reading too much Quran... I sort of lost you there since I never said that. But then you go on talking about past glory and how they read more quran than we do. Not interested in getting into that argument thank you. I'd like to think there was in them an inner desire to succeed that drove them rather than... I pause there.

Then you get into Ghera. I seem to remember the Quran saying that if you arrive on people talking bad about God and his prophets then avoid them until they change the subject. My suggestion was based on that.

End of story there.

As far as Soldiersofallah are concerned, put something in english for us and we'll play with you.

Take care

·

9:14 am    March 17, 2004 This is an unrelated or foul message..
Soldiersofallah.de
83
www.soldiersofallah.de
bghina rRakket(Marokkaner)
aber leider das web site auf Deutsch
·

9:11 am    March 17, 2004
Soldiersofallah.de
82
www.soldiersofallah.de
·

8:18 am    March 17, 2004 This is an unrelated or foul message..
$$SEXI**DIAMOND$$
81
OMG..PEOPLE..I DONT KNOW IF I SHOULD SEE THIS MOVIE OR NOT..I MEAN I HEARD IT WAS RATED 'R'...AND THEIRS LOTS OF BLLOD N KHARA...AND HONESTLY IM NOT THEIR TO RATE IT A GOOD MOVIE OR NOT..IM JUST COURIOURS..TO SEE WHATS IN THIS MOVIE...LOL MY FRIENDS SAID THAT THEY WERE DISSING JEWS AND STUFF...AND IM NOT SAYING THATS A BAD THING OR ANYTHING..BUT UHH IS THAT TRUE..AND I DONT WANNA GO TO THE MOVIE AND JUST WASTE MY MONEY ON KHARA..WACHA?..KK WELL DATS ALL I GOTTA SAY

G2G...$$REPRESTIN' FEZ MOROCCO$$$

SHOKRAN...*FROM UR GURL..QU33N D.*

OH AND ANOTHER THING..WHOS AHMED DIDAT? :|!..

·

8:02 am    March 17, 2004
7abibat al 9oloub
80
Be truthful; don?t be dishonest.

Be humble; don?t be arrogant.

Be moderate; don?t be excessive.

Be clean; don?t be corrupt.

Be reserved; don?t be garrulous.

Don?t be boastful; be soft-spoken.

Don?t be unmindful of others; be loving and solicitous to them.

Don?t be harsh; be considerate and compassionate.

Don?t be insulting and disrespectful to people; be polite and helpful.

Don?t be selfish and miserly; be generous and charitable.

Don?t swear, don?t curse; be refined and gentle in speech.

Don?t be bitter and resentful; be cheerful and magnanimous.

Don?t be greedy; be content, be grateful for what one has.

Don?t be irritable and morose; be cheerful and pleasant.

Don?t be lustful; be chaste and pure.

Don?t be absent-minded; be alert.

Don?t be graceless; be dignified and decent.

Don?t be hypocritical; be sincere and straightforward.

Don?t be cynical or pessimistic; be optimistic and hopeful.

Don?t be doubtful and wavering; be confident and deep in faith.

Don?t be materialistic; be spiritually oriented.

Don?t lose heart or be desperate; always have faith in Allah?s mercy.

Don?t be negligent to your duties; be diligent and vigilant.

Don?t be forgetful of the innumerable blessings of God; be thankful to Him and constantly pray to Him:
*{All praise is to Allah, the Lord of the worlds!}*

·

7:53 am    March 17, 2004

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
79
Albert Einstein said : Science without religion is Lame. Religion without science is Blind.
·

7:45 am    March 17, 2004

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
78
77
Rasta Garcia,
that comment that Man said should not be chalenged first of all, becaue Man is Momo, why couldn`t he post with only one nick so we can discuss, things?? you have been quite a while here, and you keep your nick unchanged, the only reason i see why one should change his nick , is to try to convince people that there are more than one person to share his point of view, which is very weak....

To answer Momo/Man,
Allah said ( la yourayerrou allahu ma bi9awmin 7atta youghayerrou ma bi2anfoussihim) we all know this ayates, but we tend to ignore the meaning of it, we the Muslims went away from the Path that ALLAH and his Prophet(PBUH) drawn for us, and that is why we are the weakest people on this Planet, we are miserable -yes- we deserve the curse of ALLAH cause we didn`t follow his teaching, ALLAH didn`t say just be Muslims and i will make you the best among people-no- ALLAH said (3malou fasayara ALLAHOU a3malakoum...)

Man and Rasta garcia, both of you think that the misery of the muslim people is due to the fact that Muslims are busy reading and re-reading Quran, and spending too much time on Religion .

Do you guys have any idea how the Muslims reached the Top of the world beofre?? wern`t they spending much more time than what we spend now?? wern`t they reading the Quran more than what we do now??
Let`s take for example , the Era of the prophet(PBUH) how did they reach they have reached? one of the companions said that when he passed by the houses of the companions at night it was like if he hears bees, but in fact it was the voice of the companions reading Quran at night. did that prevent them from being the super power of their Time? NO- in fact we know about Arrazi-Ibnou sina-achafi3i- etc, when they asked achafi3i how many times do you finish the quran, he asked them on prayers or out of prayers? they said on prayers he asked again on the fardh or nafilah, they said fardh, he asked again fi salati aljahr amm salat assir..., did that prevent him from being what he was?
So for these reasons i see that the comment Man said is not Nice, in fact it is wrong , because our misery is because of our laziness, it is because of our failure to follow the teachings of Islam.


Garcia,
You mentioned the passion of the Prophet(PBUH) did you kow that the Prophet(PBUH) was passion and all that when people talk about him in a bad way or curse him etc, BUT when people talk about GOD he used to get SO MAD.
So it is very normal to see people getting mad when someone who is not a Muslim(yes he is not a Muslim) curse ALLAH and his Prophets in front of us, and if one has no ghira for his Religion and beliefs than he can act like modern and be passion.

·

7:00 am    March 17, 2004

Rasta Gnawi message
77
You guys need to take a chill pill. The guy asked you questions; if you can answer with reason then do it, if you can't then step aside and read other people's answers. The passion that the prophet asks for from you is not that of getting emotional in the face of reason, but to have enough reason to bow out of discussions that you can't add anything to. This is turning into an AM radio talk show where one guy pushes the buttons of millions of people and they fall right into it.

You're too busy bashing Ali while Man just slipped a nice comment out there, unchallenged.

·

5:38 am    March 17, 2004
7abibat al 9oloub
76
http://quran.islamway.com/Etranslation/039.mp3
·

4:07 am    March 17, 2004
Faissal
75
http://english.islamway.com/flashes/2/islamvschrist.exe
·

3:40 am    March 17, 2004
wissal
74
http://www.al-nasir.com/DivineIslam/Software/QuranViewer2/quranviewer2.shtml
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12:47 am    March 17, 2004
Zucchero
73
To Ali:
I have never thought that pple like you do exist. So sarcastic, but in a stupid way. You make me sick that I wanted to vomit. One thing brother, L khair li ghadi dir fina houwa ghir skout. I swear you have no clue about what you are saying. Brothers, do me a favor, can we swear to ignore all his postings?
Wa nari, 3asr l jahiliya hada, had Ali fakkerni ghir fi abou jahl. Lah yester.
·

11:29 pm    March 16, 2004
Man
72
I think Allah now is on Bush's side.
Muslims are miserable people,that's why they have the curse of Allah.Too much time and energy is spent on religion,that's why muslims poor and underdeveloped.They're too busy reading the Qu'uran over and over again ad infinimum.
·

2:32 pm    March 16, 2004

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
71
60
buddy,
I don`t need to explain to you any thing....
However, ALLAH who created ADAM from nothing can create Jesus from nothing as well not with a mnother only and without father...( KUN fa yakouun).

·

1:51 pm    March 16, 2004
7areg
70
60
Dear ALI
To summarize the points made so far based on your crazy inputs:
1. Marry (Jesus' mother) did not have sex and she got pregnant
======> Because Allah ordered it to be so it was, he was born by a miracle just like Allah created adam " 9ala lahoo koon fa kan" and if you don't believe that you should ask on of those monkeys & shimps ( ansestors of yours maybe )
2. Jesus was born and spoke to people when he was a baby (may be 3 days old).
======> we don't care what language he spoke and ie: Louis 14 was born with teeth as well as many others. consider some reading
3. Jesus did not die.
======> 7acha lillah an Yakoon have u read surrate " al ikhlass" before he's with ALLAH
check the special and general theories of relativity especially traveling @ the speed of light and read about how it affects the time . that might give your sick mind an explaination although Allah's work is beyond the human mind understanding
4. Jesus will come (Al-Mahdi Al montadar).
======> Who invited him? He was ordred to die on earth
What hotel was he staying in? He is with the other prophets
Did he get a hotel discount? it's free
What is the purpose of his coming? To die on earth because he was created on it .
A. He is coming back to lead the prayer: Never heard of that He will come on the time of a prayer ( and will not lead it)
B. He will unite all faithful people (stop the sarcasm, Who are the faithful? the beleivers in god and his prophets (King M6 is not the leader of believers, and you can't even talk to him because your busting your butt off in houston )
C. He will break the cross ( it will be banned because the truth will be revelled )
D. He will forbid the eating of pigs (He did that before and it did not work?? How do u know that he did it before ??? what is your proof that he did it ??? your contradicting yourself what an idiot!!!!
that is right, did you hear of anybody eating pork in the time of the prophet Mohamed PBUH? )
E. He will Kill addajjal (I thought that Prophets love life and do not kill ?
what do u know about prophets ?? where did you get that idea from ??? you can't use the same source to support and critisize @ the same time unless ... if your an idiot
think again !!! Prophets fought for the sake of Allah ( Moses,David,Solomon,noah, Mohamed PBU them all...
if Jesus kills, he will be charged with 1st degree Murder, that's death penalty in the Texas, USA
if you say this in SA or iRAN you'll be the one killed in Mecca, USA= United Saudi Arabia
F. He will take the mu2minine to the mountain to escape the massacres of ya2jouj wa ma2jouj (Boy Jesus loves blood and killing. The Christians say God is love and love is God. This is not the Jesus they want in their lives)
what do u care about Muslims, Christians or jews ??? You said that you don't even know if heaven existed stick to one side idiot
G. He will settle peace on Earth until you will see kids playing with snakes, and sheep eating outside with wolves (We already see this stuff in Jamaa Al-Fna in Marrakech. I spent a few years in Marrakech and I think Jesus will not have to deal with this item at all)
You probably was one of those (9a3idiyine idiots in the 7ala9ate ) Marxiste lininiste slyliste modeliste what an idiot
H. Jesus will die after 40 years on earth (Too bad, we will really miss him then. He came, killed, cleaned, and finally dies. Aaahh this movie needs a sequel: "Jesus II, mortal combat")
no u should see the " ali 1! the idiot that burns in hell"
I. Jesus never Died, so Allah will bring him back to die as a human (Koran also said: "Kon Fa Ya Kon", why is Allah trying to do the above tasks the hard way. Since Allah is all powerful, why doesn't he just accomplish the above items in 1 second and get it over with already)
Because Satan defied Allah so Allah will show him and idiots like yourself that there are so many people that will follow the right path
=========
Conclusion:
=========

Jazakomo Allaho Khairan Wa ssalam

·

1:51 pm    March 16, 2004
busy
69
First of all I would like to say that I admired the story about the barber! there are people who just try to look for answers by asking questions about proofs and then they answer them without proof! that is they ask you what's the proof of this and that! and then they answer and when you ask them the proofs of their answers they go blank!
You know, people embrace religion because they want certainty in their lives, especially on the spiritual level. However religion is not certainty it is in fact a paradoxial uncertainty! You can't KNOW that your are 100% in the truthful religion! you just BELIEVE that! and that's the beauty and purpose behind religion. and besides, two of the 6 basic human needs are certainty and pardoxicly uncertainty! and these are two of the needs that religion gives us in a way!
You know it is similar on booh directions, believers are just that believers. This means they don't know 100% that they are right but they believe that they are. and nonbelievers are like wise! ask an atheisit to proove their beliefs that God doesn't exist and he'll fill you up with questions to which he doesn't even have any clear answer, questions to which he is not sure of his answers! he just believes in those too! His answers fly circles and he is trying to relate those answers to exceptions or odd events that may exist or has existed in our world.
They for example ask, If God is so powerful then why didn't he just send his messages directly rather than using prophets? If god exists why there is so much pain in the world? why there are sick people? and so on?
Well, if God didn't send his messages through prophets then humans may refuse to comply because they could say "ok you're god you ask us to do what us humans can't do!" but he sent humans just so that people will have no excuse.
Why there is pain? I see people who ask these questions as the ones who look at half full glass of water and then they describe it as half empty. if the answer to that question will tell you that god doesn't exist then the answer to the opposite (Why there is joy?) will tell you that God exist! its just wired! people who believe are promissed joy and people who dont are promissed pain! before looking at the pain in the world! ask yourself if god doesnt exist why am I asking this question? Why am I sypmathatic with those who have pain? then things might become clear to you!
and the barber story posted below answer these kind of questions too.
.............
Now an answer to ALI, who asked questions in a very satirical way about Jesus and his mother! Let me tell you one thing! From your satire I had the feeling that you're the kind of person who takes life for a joke! yeah life is a movie! and you are the leading character! I dont want to attack your character but I mean no matter what your beliefs are, at least respect the character of the prophet and his mother whom billions of people belive in!
And second, to answer your questions, Jesus is a prophet and each prohet was brought with miracles that serve to show that he was indeed a prophet! miracles are by definiton: "(An event inexplicable by the laws of nature and held to be supernatural in origion or an act of God)" I think this answers your questions about sperms and talking as a baby and so on!
About Addajal! Why would Jesus kill him? Addajal is a guy who will come to the world claiming that he is God! many people will believe in him! most of them are Jews who will believe that he is the true Massiah as they didn't believe in Jesus. He will come after 3 years of famine on earth and he will be giving people food in exchange of them submiting to him! Jesus will come to kill him makes sense! If he is a true messenger of God than it makes sense to kill someone as satanic as Addajal who is telling people that he is God! and you said love is God and God is love! Also Love is justice and justice is God! God is truth and truth is God! and the list goes on!
And the answer to the question of Jesus breaking the cross! is that he will break the ideology! and the same goes for Pork! and by the way people on the west live longer not because they eat pork but because they have better medical treatments!!
........
A good website is that one of harun yahya for english speakers! its very useful and you might find there answers to the various questions that are going on here!

www.harunyahya.com

·

1:31 pm    March 16, 2004
Zri3
68
Ali you talk just for talking you make no sense you
play that you are dumb and stupid, you will not fool anyone
for sure, get a life men go fix yourself you are totaly missed up, I will never read anything you post cause it's not worth it
to lose my time reading trash.
·

11:54 am    March 16, 2004
Sala7ddin
67
http://www.islamonline.net/askaboutislam/browse.asp
·

11:08 am    March 16, 2004

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
66
60

Ali,

If it is stated that Jesus would break the cross after his arrival, that would probably mean he would eradicate the idea of "Trinity" (not the one in the Matrix. :)
The Quran is full of aphorisms symbolisms, and sometimes it would be wiser not to read it in a linear mode ...


·

11:08 am    March 16, 2004
prince
65
www.harunyahya.com
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10:53 am    March 16, 2004

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
64

http://www.prisonplanet.com/video.html


I passed across this site some time ago, it has several
videos that can watch.

In One of them (Bloodlines of Illuminati) I think (?)...there is a short reference about Dajjal (the final battle according to the Islamic faith (?) wich will take place between Good and Evil).

Evil will be represented by the elites
who controled the world economies, since the past 200 years,(Rockfellers, freemassons etc) and who's ultimate goal was the one world governement, or New world order... (novus ordo seclorum) as it is printed on the back of the dollar bill .

The eye above the pyramid is supposed to be the symbole of "Big brother" watching you . > :)
Anyways, I am not into conspiracies or encient cult's symbolism, but I found that specific video interesting to watch... (:/


·

9:43 am    March 16, 2004
Ali
63
FYI:

This is a good tutorial on what addajjal might look like. I think I once saw him in the Huston airport (Texas!). We have a lot of evangelical Christians over here.

I think that the "addajjal"s are very good entertainers, why will Jesus want to kill them?

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/3016/antichrist.htm

Jazakomo Allaho Khairan, Wa ssalam

·

9:43 am    March 16, 2004
lococo72
62
salam alykom
first of all
this is my first time trying to respond to a subject (i will get back to that later to explain why)
to all brothers and sisters trying to convince somebody in here that the quran is a book of god and that there is no "contradictions,incoherent ideology and even grammar mistakes" to this persone if you do know any contradictions or grammar mistakes say it to prove that you have something to back up your words and u do know better then many generations before you who beleive in islam and quran and our prophet mohamed (3aly hi asallat wa asalam)
Allah (soubhanaho wa taala) says in the quran what it means" god send us the quran and he will protect it" no matter what you do or what others no believers tried for so long (many generations) but they couldnt
if you do think there is grammar mistakes just try to come up with just one surra reflecting your knowledge of arabic grammar and you will know the truth at the time if you do have any "darrat iman" in your heart
we dont even have to prove that to you or to anybody the quran itself if you ever read will convince you
the next thing i conclude from your answers like this one here " The Qu'uran is the word of Allah because we say so.No need proof .End of the story"is that u probably grew up in family where they dont give you the freedom of opinion
or even to hear what you trying to say . you do have to hear what other poeple are saying to you and u do need to respect others opinions
i'm not trying to single out anybody or underestimate anybody's opinions
everybody will reflect his environment where he grew up and his parents attitudes and religion as our quran says what it mean(i couldnt get the exact translation)" everybody's religion comes from his parents they can make him jews or christian or whatever their religion is"
everybody is free to say whatever he wants to says just remember you will be facing god one day and all your words and your mistakes and your good and bad things will be in front of you ( even if you dont beleive in that) just believe now
i will try to post more often in here if the webmaster will let me
i will get back to what i was saying earlierin the beginning of this page
i was trying to post something on raioo many times but my computer wont let me ( because i had somebody using my computer to post something on raioo without my knowledge and now the only things i can do is read what's in here
i had sent many emails to the webmaster explaining the issue but i still cannot post anything i had to use my work station
i will really appreciate an answer to my emails
we all are busy and moroccans ofcourse we are proud of that
and thank to all of you and to the webmaster
·

9:33 am    March 16, 2004
Ali
61
FYI

Here's a web link that talks about addajjal, antiChrist, etc...

http://etori.tripod.com/dajjalsystem/home.htm

Jazakomo Allaho Khairan, Wa ssalam

·

9:15 am    March 16, 2004
Ali
60
Dear Negotiator, busy, muslim, bahja, and 7areg

To summarize the points made so far based on your inputs:

1. Marry (Jesus' mother) did not have sex and she got pregnant

======> What happened to Sperm, Egg, and cellular science? Did Allah send a cosmic Sperm, injected her with it, and fertilized her egg? Who is the sperm donor? Is it Allah? Does this mean that Jesus is the son of Allah?

2. Jesus was born and spoke to people when he was a baby (may be 3 days old).

======> I wonder what language did he speak and I think it will be funny listening to him talking without teeth. It's funny listening to my own mother without her dentures.

3. Jesus did not die.

======> This means he is about 2004 years old. Does he have a different cellular make up than the rest of humanity. Is he mortal? Is he human? Is he Allah? Is he the son of Allah?

4. Jesus will come (Al-Mahdi Al montadar).

======> Who invited him? What hotel was he staying in? Did he get a hotel discount? What is the purpose of his coming?. I read enough answers in this forum and I can't help but question how little clues if any do we have about this whole Jesus saga. Here are a few reasons for the coming of Jesus that people mentioned:

A. He is coming back to lead the prayer (whatever that means)

B. He will unite all faithful people (does this include Jews, Christians, Muslims, Bahai's, Sikhs, Hindus, etc...Who are the faithful (King M6 is the leaders of believers, I will ask him to talk to Jesus to give me a seat when Jesus come))

C. He will break the cross (salib) (Where's the cross located, there are a lot of them as we speak right now. In fact the lady sitting next to me is wearing a cross necklace, will Jesus steal it from her and break it?)

D. He will forbid the eating of pigs (He did that before and it did not work. People in the Christian world eat pork and live longer than Muslims, I do not think that pork should be in Jesus' agenda when he comes! )

E. He will Kill addajjal (I thought that Prophets love life and do not kill, if Jesus kills, he will be charged with 1st degree Murder, that's death penalty in the Texas, USA)

F. He will take the mu2minine to the mountain to escape the massacres of ya2jouj wa ma2jouj (Boy Jesus loves blood and killing. The Christians say God is love and love is God. This is not the Jesus they want in their lives)

G. He will settle peace on Earth until you will see kids playing with snakes, and sheep eating outside with wolves (We already see this stuff in Jamaa Al-Fna in Marrakech. I spent a few years in Marrakech and I think Jesus will not have to deal with this item at all)

H. Jesus will die after 40 years on earth (Too bad, we will really miss him then. He came, killed, cleaned, and finally dies. Aaahh this movie needs a sequel: "Jesus II, mortal combat")

I. Jesus never Died, so Allah will bring him back to die as a human (Koran also said: "Kon Fa Ya Kon", why is Allah trying to do the above tasks the hard way. Since Allah is all powerful, why doesn't he just accomplish the above items in 1 second and get it over with already)

=========
Conclusion:
=========

1. The Koran, Bible, and Ahaadeeth did not do a good job explaining the Jesus fairy tale
2. Negotiator needs to explain to us who the hell is addajjal and why will Jesus want to "kill his ass"?
3. Negotiator needs to explain to us who the hell are ya2jouj wa ma2jouj? and what is the point of the massacre?
4. Allah needs to clarify to humanity why the secrecy and confusion behind this Jesus saga?

Jazakomo Allaho Khairan Wa ssalam

·

8:25 am    March 16, 2004
abdou607
59
A man went to a barber shop to have his hair and his beard cut as always. He started to have a good conversation with the barber who attended him. They talked about so many things and various subjects.

Suddenly, they touched the subject of ALLAH. The barber said : "Look man, I don't believe that ALLAH exists as you say so." "Why do you say that?" Asked the client. Well, it's so easy, you just have to go out in the street to realize that ALLAH does not exist. Oh, tell me, if ALLAH existed, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children? If ALLAH existed, there would be no suffering nor pain. I can't think of a ALLAH who permits all of these things." The client stopped for a moment thinking but he didn't want to respond so as to prevent an argument.

The barber finished his job and the client went out of the shop. Just after he left the barber shop he saw a man in the street with a long hair and beard (it seems that it had been a long time since he had his cut and he looked so untidy). Then the client again entered the barber shop and he said to the barber : " know what? Barbers do not exist."

"How come they don't exist?"-asked the barber. "Well I am here and I am a barber." "No!" - the client exclaimed. "They don't exist because if they did there would be no people with long hair and beard like that man who walks in the street."

"Ah, barbers do exist, what happens is that people do not come to me." "Exactly!"- affirmed the client. "That's the point. ALLAH does exist, what happens is people don't go to Him and do not look for Him that's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

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6:46 am    March 16, 2004
jabouki
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si qcq peux m'expliquer l'histoire de noah (nouh)
et si la terre est vraiment innonder
dans quelle periode de notre histoire?
kaina ghir hayat wahda
et il faux que tout le monde,qu'il a vive bein
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6:43 am    March 16, 2004
jabouki
57
si qcq peux m'expliquer l'histoire de noah (nouh)
et si la terre est vraiment innonder
dans quelle periode ?
·

6:32 am    March 16, 2004
jabouki
56
la sceince est la seule reponces a\' ces questions
la natur est aussi une reponses
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12:09 am    March 16, 2004
busy
55
An answer to MOMO who said that the Quran is nonsense, its not from god because there is no evidence and also that the quran has mistakes and contradictions.
First of all, you, yourself, you haven't given any evidence or proof for what you ve said! you havent shown where there are mistakes or contradictions in the Quran!
And second, if you understand arabic, I don't know how you could read or listen to the Quran without feeling cristal clear that it is from God! One, it's completely different from any book I have ever read! very powerful and emotional (that is you feel fear, joy, hope and other emotions) while reading it! Its is extremely very balanced on that sense and on other senses! Also when you read it with analysis you just feel you want to keep on reading it without the desire to close it! and Besides, its full of scientific and mathematical miracles! how could a an illitrate on the 6th century know in a very precise way how a baby get created in the uterus of his mother??? and Add to your knowledge, you dont publish the Quran just like any other book! there are companies who check for errors in writing!!!
You know there intellectual christians who tried to show that the Quran contradict itself! they stated that on one verse the Quran says Jesus was not crusified! and on an other they distored the original verse trying to show that the Quran said that Jesus died! But what they did was distorting the original verse and giving an English meaning not in sync with the Arabic version of the Quran which does not give any meaning that Jesus died!
I belive everything has a purpose. If we came to life just for no reward for good doers and punishement for violators then life is absurd! and what is good in being good? everyone lives his life span, then goodbye your baterries are over! I find this ideology very absurd! Heaven and Hell makes more sense.
...................
And to ALI the guy who asked the questions! and one of them was that if God is playing with us with supense!? and that why didnt the Mahdi nor Jesus appear yet? Well, I am not suprised by your questions! Many of the nations before us who were warned of punishements or of warm events! and what they were was nothing less from being impatient and asking the prophets who were with them to show them the turmoils they were warning them from!!!!
The coming of Mehdi will be after a lot of killing among humans! Its very imaginable with the WMDs of our time!
........................
And one last thing is that Islam is not against freedom of expression! its the opposite it pushes us to ask questions of any kind! there are however some muslims who urge people not to ask questions and back up their claims that belief is in the heart not the brain! Those who do that are wrong!! but that doesnt mean that Islam is wrong! but people like to overgeneralise and often they see a muslim guy doing something inethical then they start attacking Islam!
And they talk about reason and sense!!!!
If you want reason then be reasonable!

and peace

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7:59 am    March 15, 2004
muslim
54
One of the pillars of faith in islam is to blieve in the prophets that preceded the prophet mohamed peace be upon them all.
jesus in islam is a prophet like all others.
there are many views in this panels, i would say some ask questions like : does god exist? is islam the true religion?
does hell exist? does heaven exist? why does God want us to follow what he says?
these are fundamental quetions that make a reason of being to human kind. they can be asked and answered in a respectful way and listened to with an attentive ear.
some one said in his comment that the quran urge pple to go ask the scholars when pple dont know about a given subject. it makes sense. since the subject is islam, here are some sources that answers the fundamental questions you want to know.. some do have videos in english with illustrations.
http://www.jannah.com/truth/index.html#7
http://www.amrkhaled.com
i think that these two sources can be useful non-muslims as well as muslims.
enjoy your search and i wish we can talk with reason as well as heart in a respectfull manner.
Peace.
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7:25 am    March 15, 2004
slik_outlaw
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hey brother i guess u didn\\\'t read quoran da much in the quoran says hw jesus escape from romanes before get crusifided ALLAH all logic any question u may have got to read quoran more and more this holly book isn\\\'t one time story u gotta use it as reference and all questions u may have they all in . ALLAH doesn\\\'t hide his truth from his people
look for it u shelll find it
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2:51 pm    March 13, 2004

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
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49
grammar mistakes

Would you tell us what are they?

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2:47 pm    March 13, 2004

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
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MB,
I know that you respect Religion etc...no doubt about that.
Who told you that God told us not to ask questions???
I certainly di dnot say that, and this is one of the things that really makes go crazy sometimes here in this discussions that`s why i try to stay away.

I saidAllah told us not to ask questions that will not benefit us, questions that won`t do any thing to us, what would be added to you if you know what year was jesus born, and where is he coming back to, and what will he wear, and why wouldn`t he lead the prayer...., does is it solve your problems?? i don`t think so.

The first word that was revealed to Mohammed(PBUH) is I9RA2 ( RECITE) ,ALLAH also said (wass2alou ahla addikri in kountoum la ta3lamoun) Ask questions, all kind of questions, but you have to accept the fact that sometimes you can`t know the answers to all your questions.

By the way the Quran didn`t say the whole story about Jesus, but The prophet(PBUH) said it, and he gave us a lot of details about it, even how he looked like, people just need to read chi chouia and they will find what they are looking for, if you don`t read and know the story how could you argue about it??? The Bible says the story, and the Quran and ahadiths say the story as well.

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2:40 pm    March 13, 2004
gadiri
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il faut vivre en paix c tout,et aussi dans la rihesse hmmmm hmmmmmmm argent et tbaawk mrra mrrraa
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2:36 pm    March 13, 2004
Momo
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7areg,how you became a muslim? because your father was a muslim,so you inherited Islam from your parents,and you follow islam simply because all your follow countrymen are muslims and etc.I think you're the sheep among the sheeps not me. You say you can't stand people with different opinions.What's wrong with you man? Your religion is not the only tiket to heaven.And don't talk to me about the straight path, because your blind faith prevent you from seeing the truth.Speaking of BS,look at your holy book is full of contradictions,incoherent ideology and even grammar mistakes.Trying to make us believe that the best civilisation was originated in the desert of arabia.People are sick of the empty slogan : Islam is the solution ,whatever your problem Islam has the solution for you Pure nonsense.Oh yeah Islam for dummies.
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12:41 pm    March 13, 2004
7areg
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46
To Momo the non-islamo-democrat

What a good point you're making here. Please allow me to tip my hat to you sir.
You sure proved that your just a sheep amongst the sheep , brainwahsed by the western "merdia" or media.
Primo: what a sarcastic manner to make your point cheikh 7areg, that's called labeling my dear watson what are trying to do ??? amuse people ?? are u a clown ?? we're having a serious discussion here bro, I am deffending my position ( and many others that just didn't happen to read all the BS that the village idiot has been posting on here). you said that it seems that i don't even know religion, well enlighten me Mr "know religion very well"
To your info we did try to talk to him " billati hiya a7ssan " however He just keeps repeating the same non-sense over and over again. It makes me sick and it doesn't let the discussion go any further.
secondo: I am not trying to convince anybody I am just telling him and people who deffend his cause to watch their toilet mouths because you derived so far from the right path. Keep the Quran out of this ( we don't wanna go back to his old illusions islam 1.0 and 2.0 )

I hate dealing with fools, they drag you down to their level then they beat you with experience
Peace

·

12:34 pm    March 13, 2004
hinda
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C\'est pas tres en relation avec le sujet:
3 Marocains, ont ete arretes dans l\'enquete des attentats de Madrid, c\'est vraiment con comment certains raisonnent
·

11:08 am    March 13, 2004
Momo
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Cheik 7areg the intolerant islamo-faschist
Firstable a good muslim shouldn't be cursing and using filthy language like this.That's un-islamic totally haram,u'll cetainly get your ass kicked in judgement day because of your diarrhea mouth.It seem to me that u don't even know the religion you're trying to defend.Have you ever heard of "wa jadilhoum bi lati hiya a7ssen" ? So if you want to convince people of something,you don't start calling them name and etc.And stop using the scare tactics,see u in hell infidel.I'm not afraid of going to your imaginary hell because it dosen't exist. By the same token I'm not excited about going to your islamic paradise for the simple reason that it dosen't exist.
Come on man,get real, u got to have a better argument than this childish non-sense.How about islam for dummies?
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11:08 am    March 13, 2004
Lui
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44
Hi MB,

I am with the idea of asking questions about anything that faces us in life. I prefer to understand what and why I am doing something rather than doing it because I've been told to do so. However, we forget that we are talking about religion here. And religion touches things that are beyond the imagination of our mind (ex: Allah...). Therefore, not all questions related to it can be answered. Thus, depending on the strength of our faith, we either accept or reject the stories narrated by that religion.

So, not being able to answer questions about Jesus does not mean that he didn't exist or the Koran is not correct or his story is a fairy tale...it simply mean that we don't have enough information about his life. Period. It is good that we all try to understand the A to Z of his story. But, if there are no references to parts of his life, then, there is no way to know for sure what really happened. I truly think that the Koran did not mention the details of his life due to the fact that it is not that important for us to know. After all, the Koran is not only a storybook and it is a finite book!

I still do have some questions of mine about the life of Jesus. I'll continue searching for answers to them. However, I do accept the fact that I might not find an answer to them at the end.

Kan Hna!

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10:10 am    March 13, 2004
MB
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43
Ali adds actually something to the conversations....he actually shows us how narrow minded some ppl are and how religion rule their lives....some ppl don t believe in freedom of speech...i don t always agree with ali...but i would never call him idiot, tell him to shut up or die......

si nego....
u said
Meaning don`t ask about things that are not very important and will not make a difference, and that if you know the answer to it , ....

i am not making fun of islam or allah...i respect all religions and u must know that by now....but how can god tell us not to ask questions??? didn t he give us a brain...what for??...we have the right to know what happened with jesus....(birth , death...) ...at least just to avoid all this confusion we live in ....

Ali ,
i ask the same questions myself...but i think u are really pushing it sometimes...u cant talk that way to ppl who respect religion ....

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9:29 am    March 13, 2004
Lui
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41
Hi,

Well said. You got it right my friend. However, I am pretty sure that Mr. Ali will come back with a bench of his non sense questions that add nothing to the discussion.

Keep it alive here...

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8:06 am    March 13, 2004
moroccan_100pc
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41
J'ai juste oublie de dire que ce n'est jamais trop tard.
je remercie tous ceux qui partages leurs opinions avec nous.
·

7:54 am    March 13, 2004
moroccan_100pc
41
38
Mr Ali,
Tu poses beaucoup de questions et c'est tres bien, mais je pense que tu poses ces questions juste pour les poser, et pas pour essayer de comprendre. Tes questions sont tres interessantes mais se sont des questions de la naivete d'un enfant "pouquoi, comment, pourquoi, comment, pourquoi ceci, pourquoi cela, etc". Un gayard adulte qui cherche a comprendre les choses, a son age d'adulte aura quelques reponses "positives ou negatives, peu importe" et ceci ne serait possible qu on s'orientant vers la bonne source d'information. dans ce cas, le coran, la(es) bible(s), les recherches et travaux de religieux et scientifiques. Ayant fait ceci, ta contribution a la discussion serait + et peu etre le sort des palestiniens ne serait pas ce qu'il est aujourd'hui. Et Jesus reviendra quand le bon Dieu voudra... Peu etre en faisant ceci, il tardera un peu a revenir ;-)
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11:07 pm    March 12, 2004
7areg
40
38
To the Village idiot:

If you question the integrity and the authenticity of The HOLY QURAN then you are not a muslim = you are disblieving in everything that was sent upon our Prophet Mohamed PBUH. There are many verses in the Holy Quran that urge us to think about the wisdoms and the perfections of this world. However; when an ignorant worthless idiot starts lecturing and preaching his crazy nonsense pure BS and calls it his ligitimate right because it is stated in the Quoran. I tell you Mr infidel: get lost
Concerning the matter of occupied Palestine: that Holy place is a sort of " thermometer" of faith on earth if we have it then we're good and we're following the path of our beloved prophet
and vise-versa

in conclusion i ask God to guide you and cure you SICK mind and if he chooses otherwise then May you burn in hell eternaly. Amen Amiiiiiiine

Ali Jazak allahou Khayran you sick idiot

·

8:58 pm    March 12, 2004

Adnane Ben. message
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38
Ali, I don't think anyone is asking you or us to wait.. I'm not sure where you get this impression from.

You're beating too much on God and Koran. Take it easy, and discuss billati hiya a7ssan. Even a non-muslim would talk about Koran and God with courtesy and would avoid the sarcasm you're much resorting to.

·

8:32 pm    March 12, 2004
Ali
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36
Dear Negotiator,

I quote you:

"How could you compare ALLAH to israelis ?????"

My answer:

1. I gave a current example of what is happening between the Israel and Palestine. A lot of people say that the two people are destined to fight since 3000 years ago. So going with your logic of no questioning, we can just ignore what's happening to the Palestinians because Allah said so.

2. Anyway, can you tell us why this whole Jesus saga (birth/death/disappearance/coming back/Al mahdi Al montadar) is still unresolved 2000 years later?

3. Do you think that Allah enjoys keeping us wondering? is this some kind of mind game? scare tactics?

4. If so, what is Allah's point? does he have a point?

5. Or should I just wait, wait, wait, .....forever until Mr. Mahdi Montadar comes!. Humans do have a brain, I think they should use it to ask questions (even if it involves Allah and Jesus and Mohammed).

Jazakomo Allaho Khairan Wassalam

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6:51 pm    March 12, 2004
Momo
37
The Qu'uran is the word of Allah because we say so.No need proof .End of the story.
Why not ,why can't we ask question? Because Negociator and company the Islamists gestapo won't not allow it.
What about freedom of speech or free inquiry?No no that un-islamic to use use your brain or think independly.
As a matter of fact all the so-called Holy Books claim to be the actual word of God ,but no conclusive evidence is given to support their claims.How do we know that the authors of Qu'uran didn't change the original text to suit their purposes? Again no satisfactory answer is given.And what about all the contradictions in the Holy Qu'uran? for exemple many verses cancel each other out and etc..
·

4:52 pm    March 12, 2004

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
36
Ali,
How could you compare ALLAH to israelis ?????
·

4:25 pm    March 12, 2004
Ali
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34
Dear Nabilino,

1. I understand where you are coming from. To you everything that is in the Koran is 100% true. To me, as a Muslim, I question things that do not make sense.

2. Negotiator seems to use old tactics along the lines of not questioning why Allah does things a certain way. I think it is fair to ask why. If we follow the logic that Negotiator seems to advocate, then let's just accept what Israel is doing to the Palestinians and shut up already (Allah wants the Palestinians to suffer under the Israelis so why bother questioning it)

3. The issues around Jesus' birth/death/disappearance are very confusing and both Islam and Christianity did a poor job explaining what's up with Jesus (PBUH).

4. I personally think that the whole Jesus story is a fairy tale. That's why I question it.

5. So the question remains: why did Allah choose this Jesus issue to stay for so long (it's causing a lot of problems, wars, evangelical Christians, Muslim and Christian and Jewish fundamentalists, etc...). I think it is not wise from Allah's point of view.

Jazakomo Allaho Khairan, Wa ssalam

·

3:48 pm    March 12, 2004
Nabilino
34
Adnane, sorry about the F word previosly.
Ali, sorry if it seems that everyone is against you, but you have some very wrong information about the Quoran and the prophets of Allah. First of all the Quoran was not written by ordinary people, it was sent to sidna mohammed using sidna jebril who transfered the message of Allah to his beloved prophet.
and second prophets are ordinary people but with knowledge about god more that us, and they are tolerant to some miracles that happend to them with allah's willing and that's how they're different that us.that's how jesus was born and raised and will come back to earth again someday.
peace
·

3:01 pm    March 12, 2004

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
33
??? ???????? ????????? ??????? ??? ?????????? ???? ????????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ?????????? ??????? ????? ????????? ?????????? ?????? ?????? ????? ??????? ??????? ????????? ???????

Allah said in surat al2anbia2:(La youss2alou 3amma yaf3alou wahoum youss2aloun)
Meaning, Allah does not get questioned about what he does, and we do get questioned...ALLAH also said (wa ma outitoum mina al3ilmi illa 9alilan..) menaing we WILL NOT know every thing and the reasons behind them, Period.

Also ALLAH said : ( ya 2ayouhha lladina aamanou la tass2alou 3an achya2a in toubda lakoum tassou2koum...) Meaning don`t ask about things that are not very important and will not make a difference, and that if you know the answer to it , you will not like....Just like when a man comes to the prophet(PBUH) and ask him about his camel that he lost.....

What difference would it make to know how was jesus born, how will he return, who is almahdi almuntadar...etc....

Ali,
If you are tired of waiting, do something about it...the only way to find out about all this is to die.....

·

1:49 pm    March 12, 2004

Rasta Gnawi message
32
Salam All,

I am actually on Ali's camp on the questions asked. Although, I will suggest that some of the Ahadiths give more detail about his birth/death(Ref.: Quasas Al Anbia' of Ibn Kuthari.) Some of the stories come from Ahadiths that were classified as weak to begin with, but others come from presumed good sources. Some of them smack of what they called israiliats.

But the question remains valid. There is purpose to everything God does. What was the prupose of miraculous birth and death, and an equally miraculous and controversial return. Was it to shock the jews into belief or was it part of a scheme long planned.

At the start of the debate, I was looking for cool answers with mystic around them. Now I wonder if I was drugged up in the search for good tales. How does the story make me a better person is perhaps the more relevant quest. So far, I haven't found out how. Let me know if you have.

Jah bless you all

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1:44 pm    March 12, 2004
Ali
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Dear Bahja,

1. Do not be afraid to question the Koran and other holy books. They are written by humans (with a message from above, I think!)

2. We are discussing Jesus, his birth, death/disappearance, and his coming. If you have read the Koran and you know the story of Jesus, can you tell me why Allah decided to do what he did with Jesus. In other words, does Allah have a point in doing this Jesus thingy?

Jazakomo Allaho Khairan, Wa ssalam

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1:37 pm    March 12, 2004
Ali
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27
Dear Negotiator,

1. I am glad to see you back in this discussion

2. You have to agree that the issue of Jesus' birth and death/disappearance is very iffy at best!

3. Your explanation about him coming back and taking with him the believers and the sheep eating with the wolves and the kids playing with snakes etc...is very funny indeed.

4. What was the reason behind Allah creating Jesus in a "Miraculous" way, his death/disappearance is also in a "Miraculous" way, and his supposed return will also be in a "Miraculous" way?

5. Why is Allah doing this? Humanity has waited now 2004 years. How many years are we supposed to wait until Jesus come. I think we are all tired of waiting.

Jazakomo Allaho Khairan, Wa ssalam

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1:20 pm    March 12, 2004
Bahja
29
21
Ali, it is better late than never, and I hope you got my point. The question of Koran and God Allah being perfect or not is the same as asking howcome you are borned to die one day, and who is controling the world and all living things around you? So Ali, If you are powerful enough and know better than us, please help yourself and be immortel. So obviousely enough, you can not, and for sure there is someone who can, that one is the creator who created you.., and the kuran.
·

12:17 pm    March 12, 2004

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
28
26
MB,
You are asking people to do the same thing they asked you to do.....did you get the point?

people tell you Allah said so and so, you say well it doesn`t make sense to you....

You say Voltaire said so and so , do you expect people to listen to that??? come-on get real !!!!!
who is voltaire anyways, and why should we follow his reasonings????!!!!!!

·

12:14 pm    March 12, 2004

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
27
7areg and nabilino,
don`t you guys waste your time explaining to Ali , because he doesn`t listen, he reads what you write and find a way how to criticize that, he then will lead you all to his Quran 1 and Quran 2, and Islam 1.0 and Islam 2.1 etc.....like he did on previous discussion....the dude does not see the contradictions on his replies, what would you expect from some one who says all these kind of stuff, and says at the end Jazzakum Allah khayran.....

Ali,
If you do not believe that Quran has done a good job explaining the story of Jesus!!! than I`m sorry i can`t do a better Job than ALLAH. that is the best we have and no one can do better than that....

MB,
Have you ever asked your self why do we have this life? why am i alive ? when you do and FIND and answer, then you can ask why ALLAH kept Jesus alive...., he isn`t only coming back to lead the prayer, he will do much more than that, as for example he will unite all faithful people, he will break the cross(salib) he will forbid the eating of pigs,, he will Kill addajjal, he will take the mu2minine, to the mountain to escape the massacres of ya2jouj wa ma2jouj....he will settle peace on Earth until you will see kids playing with snakes, and cheeps eating outside with wolves...etc. then he will die after 40 years been on earth, jesus never Died,Allah said (Kullou man 3alayha fan..) meaning that every single person on earth have to die, so he will bring him back to die as a human....where is he now? he is with Allah , Allah said also about those who Did die on Earth (martyrs) chuhada2 ( walata7ssabanna alladina 9utilou fi sabili allahi amwatan , bal a7ya2oun 3inda rabbihim yourza9oun) they are 3inda rabbihim, so Jesus as well is 3inda rabbih.

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11:50 am    March 12, 2004
MB
26
22
hey voltaire said : while i disagree with what one might say , i will defend her or his right to say it. so please don t get mad at ppl when they express their opinions and doubts.....
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11:39 am    March 12, 2004
Ali
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22
Dear 7areg and nabilino,

1. I have read the Koran and I do understand what it says about the birth/death of Jesus.

2. The explanations of the Koran are not enough to explain the birth/death of the Koran.

3. Please remember that the Koran was written some 600 years after the era of Jesus (if he was in fact real)

4. The stories do change a lot from day to day (and there are about (600 years * 365 days per year) 219000 days, since the era of Jesus)

5. Can you provide some concrete proofs about the birth/death of Jesus. And if he is coming back, how/where/when, etc...

6. Is Osama Bin Laden the "mahdi al montadar", Jesus, etc...? Think about it!

7. Sorry if I have offended you, but I asked a fair question!. Educate me!

Jazakomo Allaho Khairan, Wa ssalam

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11:39 am    March 12, 2004

Adnane Ben. message
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23
I have an observation to make. Why do you guys have to use "bad" language and censor yourselves? If you're going to censor yourselves just don't say the "bad" language in the first place. Wouldn't that be a more sincere censoring?
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11:31 am    March 12, 2004
nabilino
23
Ali are you F&*#up in your mind or what? dude, there is miracles that happend to prophets period, somethings humans don't have to know about and trying to investigate is just a waist of time like how god created the universe and stuff like that.
peace.
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11:05 am    March 12, 2004
7areg
22
21
Ali
Are you out of your mind or what ?
If you wanna play darwin go somewhere else.
You said "the Koran didn't do a good job" 7acha lillah a khay Ali. How dare you, How dare you say something like that???
are you aware of the implications and concequences of such a phrase?? If you want more info about jesus read an explaination of the Holy Koran ie: " tafssir ibnou kathirr" " fi dilal al 9our2an " by sayed Kouteb.

It just makes me sick to my stomach hearing stuff like this. A nobody ( mind you, I do not point fingers here ) deliberatly starts criticizing the The Holiest of the books.
I am not lecturing anybody here, I am just saying to keep it within the limits. that is my opinion

Thanx guys
Peace

·

10:37 am    March 12, 2004
Ali
21
16
Dear Negotiator,

1. Can you please explain to us how Jesus died/disappeared?

2. I do not believe that the Koran has done a good job explaining the birth/death/disappearance of Jesus.

3. "Wa ma Katalouho, wa ma salaboho, walakin shobbiha lahom, etc..." is not enough to explain what happened to Jesus.

4. The birth of Jesus was a "miracle", Marry had no sex (I find this a little bit hard to believe). I personally think that the whole birth story is a fairytale.

5. The death/disappearance of Jesus was also a confusing event.

6. Jesus did not marry during his life. Some Christians even say he might have been guy.

7. So from birth to death, this whole Jesus thing is not consistent. Did Jesus exist? Was this character just made up to influence ignorant people? Is it fun to just blame the Jews for what might have happened to Jesus?

8. Are we dealing here with Greek mythology when it comes to creating a "GOD of good", a "GOD of evil", etc...?

9. Why is Allah playing games with humanity? Ooh! I am sorry, if God were to tell us everything, life will not be as fun.

10. Negotiator, Happy Eid Al-Adha, Happy New year. I miss you!

Jazakomo Allaho Khairan, Wa ssalam

·

9:56 am    March 12, 2004
MB
20
and if jesus is not dead, where is he then?????
·

9:53 am    March 12, 2004
MB
19
18
non serieux je voulais te vanner c est tt ...ca fait un bail...!!!!...lmouhim can someone tell me what is the reason to keep jesus alive????? i really don t get it ....so he can come back and leads a prayer ?????????????????????????????????awwwww...and why would jesus refuse to lead the prayer? who is the mehdi el mountadar???? what is mountadar minh koi :)????
·

9:38 am    March 12, 2004

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
18
17
haaa u me tire encore ?(katjebdini 3lik tani?)

siri 9ray disney galak, hadick story won't let you sleep, if you do, you'll have nightmares...

·

9:15 am    March 12, 2004
MB
17
16
nice story nego..... i really liked it....i ll read it before going to bed tonight....instead of disney of course.....
·

8:14 am    March 12, 2004

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
16
14
The prophet (PBUH) talked about this , and it is explained to us with details how things will happen , the mahdi almuntadar, 3issa(PBUH) and addajjal, and ya2jouj wa ma2jouj......, all these are related , I believe i wrote the whole story on the Board about ja2jouj ma2jouj, and the coming of the dajjal and 3issa(PBUH), and lamahdi almuntadar....

One quick add, Jesus will appear , almahdi almuntadar will be leading peope in teh prayer and when he sees Jesus(PBUH) he will ask him to lead the prayer BUT jesus will not lead the prayer and he will pray behind almahdi almuntadhar .....

·

9:34 pm    March 11, 2004

Adnane Ben. message
15
12
I just read this message in Arabic. Thanks. It seems I'm not too much off from what it's saying
·

9:29 pm    March 11, 2004

Adnane Ben. message
14
If I can remember, Prophet Jesus isn't dead yet, as in the death in the human form as we know it. He disappeared from our earth life by an order from God. I think the question in this discussion seeks to find answers to how did he disappear, and who was this man that looks like Jesus who was crucified. While these questions haven't been answered yet from the perspective of Islam scholars, let me go on and tell what I know of the story.

At some point in the future, a man will appear. He will have a lot of influence, and will attract many followers. This man will not be a good man. He is anti-christ.

Little after, somewhere in a mosque, a man will appear all of a sudden among those who are praying. The Imam when he looked at the crowd, will recognize this man and will ask him to lead their prayer. This man will be Jesus.

He will attract a lot of people, who will fight against the anti-christ movement. He will win, and will eventually die like a normal human being. God Jesus back so he completes his life.

Soon after, life will end.

·

10:29 am    March 10, 2004
Tchiko
13
I have seen this movie, ..and I did not like it all....it s all about how Jesus died, the whooooole movie, one scene ! most of the scenes I could not even watch, was too bloody. we all know that Jesus suffered before he died, but I do not see the point of this movie!
·

11:45 pm    March 9, 2004
jawad
12
11
Assalamo alaykom,
i found this explications about the massiah on www.alnoor-world.com.
??? ???? ???? ??????:

??? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ??????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ???????. ?????? ????? ??? ??????? ???? ????? ?????. ?????? ?? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???. ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ??????- ??????.

???? ?????? ????? ??? ?? ??? ???? ????? ??????- ??? ??????? ?????? ?? ???????????? ?? ???? ?? ???????. ?????? ??? ???? ????? ???.

????? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ?? ?????. ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ????. ?????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?????. ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????????? ??? ??????. ???? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????? ?? ?????. ?? ???? ?????? ????????? ???? ???? ????. ?? ??????? ???? ?? ???? ?????. ??? ????????? ????? ?????. ??? ??????? ??? ??????? ???? ?? ????? ???. ?? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???????? ????? ???????? ?? ??? ???????.

???? ??? ????: ????? ??????? ???? ???. ????? ?????: ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??????. ????? ?????: ??? ???? ??? ???? ?? ??? ?? ???? ???? ????. ???? ?????: ??? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ???? ???? ????. ??????? ????????? ??? ??????? ??????? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ????- ???? ??? ???? ?????: (???????????? ????????? ???????? ????? ??????????? ???????????? ??????????).

???? ????? ?? ????:

?????????? ???? ???????? ????????? ?????? ???? ??????? ??????? ????? ????? ????????? ????? ????????? ???????? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ?????????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ????????? ???????? (157) ??? ??????? ????? ??????? ??????? ????? ???????? ???????? (158) ????? ?? ????? ????????? ???? ?????????? ???? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ???????? (159) (??????)

?? ???? ???? ????? ??????- ???. ???? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ?????. ??????? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ????:

????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ?? ??? ??? ????? ???: ??? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ?????: (?? ????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???: ???????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ???????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??? ??? ???????? ????? ?????? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ????? ????? ???? ??? ???????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ??????? ?? ?????? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ???????? ? ???????.)

(?????) ??? ??????? ???? ??????? (??? ?????? ???????) ???? ???? ??? ?????? (???) ???? ????? (???????) ?????? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ??????? ??????? ?? ???? ????.

??? ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ?????: (????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ? ???? ???? ????????).

?? ?? ?? ???? ??????? ?????. ???? ?? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ?? ????? ??????.

??????? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ?? ??? ??? ?? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ??????? ?????:

????? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ???? ??????? ?????? ????? ??????? ?????????? ??????? ?????????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ?????????? ??? ??????? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ????????? ??????? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ????? ?????? ????????? (116) ??? ????? ????? ???? ??? ?????????? ???? ???? ???????? ????? ???? ???????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????????? ????? ????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ????? ??? ???? ??????? (117) ??? ????????? ???????? ????????? ????? ?????? ????? ??????? ????? ????????? ????????? (118) (???????)

Assalamo alaykom wa rahmato Allah.

·

7:05 pm    March 9, 2004
MB
11
10
i heard the morocan dialect too...
i didn t like the movie i think it portrays jews as the worse ppl on earth...well it is true sometimes but we don t need to raise the animosity against them....and the movie kinda gave the good role to the christians....
·

3:08 pm    March 9, 2004
Bahja
10
The language used is called aramaic. I was also able to undestand bif part of the movie without reading the subtitles. It is really amazing to know that Jesus was speaking a mixture of Hebrou and Arabic. they say that Aramaic is the mother language for both hebru and arabic. that s why untill today arabic and hebru have words in common. what astonished me more is the Moroccan dielect that I heart sometimes while watching the movie. I am 100% sure it was some moroccan language in the background at least one time during the show. I searched and found that the movie was filmed in Italy, that would explain the Moroccan background. I think they hired Moroccans as they look similar to Jesus\'s tribe. Anyway, i think it is a great movie with history in it, but yes lot of violance. Does anyone know if theere was a tremblement the day Jesus was crucified \"in their eyes\" (and scientifically proved)?
·

2:46 pm    March 9, 2004
Zri3
9
I love that movie and Mel is the men he have what it take
to go that far even do he knew Jews will do something to him
but I have one question we are the Muslims we know the truth
why no one dare to do something like that or even more then
that to show the true death of Jesus and true face of Jews
·

1:13 pm    March 9, 2004

Rasta Gnawi message
8
We love him probably more than the christians will dare to admit. In fact, we honor him more than they ever have and ever will. He was sent to correct and rectify faith. The recognition of that is more honoring that claims of his sacrifice for past and future sins of humanity. In God's eye, everyone bears the burden of his actions... but I digress from the subject.

The Quran says that he was not crucified but that it was made to appear to them that he was crucified. So, in their eyes, he was crucified. Why didn't God let them crudify him? Many prophets were killed by them prior to Jesus. Is it because of the anti-christ? The lines are starting to blur.

·

10:53 am    March 9, 2004
7areg
7
4
The bible claims jesus was crusified.. do you have any proof ??
·

10:48 am    March 9, 2004 This is an unrelated or foul message..
azzaba
6
i dont have chance to see this movie,but tay3awdo 3lih mabihch.anyway still waiting for more intersting subjets like hello america,sa3idi rayah ghay:):).good work amigo,hopfully to do more effort for more attraction.
·

10:24 am    March 9, 2004

bou_rass message
5
I watched this movie last week , It was sooo sad actually ..because it was all about torture and so on ...but logically and whenever my friends start talking about christianity and jesus I ask them this question ...How can God (jeasus) can be crucified by the ppl he created ? he was beaten and tortured like any other human been ...and If he was the son of god , how can a father watch his son in that situation and do not do anything ? I have alot of questions that rises by using the common sense ,but nobody ever got to answer ....they always say that he was tortured for the sins that the human race committed and will commit ,and so on and on
·

1:23 am    March 9, 2004
Mo
4
The Qu'uran claims that Jesus never was crusified but no proof was given to back up this claim.
It's ok dude believe waht u want as long as u don't harm anybody,no jihad please
·

11:59 pm    March 8, 2004
7areg
3
copy paste this url in your browser :
http://www.al-eman.com/Voice/
then paste this: ???? in the search field
sorry
·

11:53 pm    March 8, 2004
7areg
2

http://www.al-eman.com/Voice/search.asp?hid=2&T1=????%20&D1=0&D2=0&NoResult=10&rad2=Spk
·

9:19 pm    March 8, 2004
7areg
1
I saw the movie about a week ago. good acting I was surprised that I could understand about 20 to 30 percent of the "aramean" spelling?? language. That movie also showed that the Jews "prophet killers" saved no energy in trying to Kill the Massiah. I felt sorry for the people crying and breathing heavily during the movie... However I do believe that Jesus was not killed ( crusified ) but the " Judas " or whatever his name is was given his apprearence ( of jesus ) by orders of the almighty Allah
Buttom line : Judas got crusified and Jesus was elevated and we are awaiting his come back to rule by the coran and fight the antichrist ( the one eyed dude ) and then die on earth.
I recommend ( 9issas al anbiya2 audio files on amrkhaled.com or http://www.al-eman.com/Islamlib/ )
wa assalam
·

Adnane Ben.'s notes (341)
 
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Moroccan Candle-toe Dance..
Moroccan Qassida: Vraie Poesie!..
LA3MARNA Legacy..
Chilling Like a Mqedem in Morocco..
Alone in the Wilderness..
Are Iranians and Americans Blowing it Up?..
Are we a virus..?..
How come Morocco is silent to Dalfour, Sudan?..
Barreling Towards an Iraqi Civil War..
Pomme and Kelly ..
Intelligent Design and Evolution in not so American lands..
The Prophets animated by Steve Whitehouse..
More with Claudio Bravo..
Muslim Texans..
Hajj Stampede Gone Ugly!..
Self-portraits 001-002..
Why Faith?..
Online 7awli Souk!..
2006 !..
 
2005
Derbouka Bled Attack..
Adopted HIV kids from Romania..
Operation Mapping Raioo Love!..
They burnt themselves.. Come'on!..
My Winamp Skin: The New Beetle..
The Forbidden Zone film that electrified me!..
Cousins skyblogging..
Chilean artist in Morocco..
Moroccan Blue tops colors!..
Osama in FAMILY GUY..
Baraka Art..
Itsy Bitsy knowledge..
The most misunderstood [and growing..] world religion, Islam..
Moroccan Christians..
Polygamy in USA..
Architecturing to joy!..
This Moorish cult in America..
The Magnificient King Vulture..
Al-Rashid and the Fart..
On the subject of Evil Eye..
Anecdote on Life and 3ibada..
Anecdote on Giving in Time of Need..
T-shirt design: L'Amoureux!..
Craig Thompson art..
The Real Origin of Smileys :)..
T-shirt design: Happy Sailor!..
T-shirt design: threadless in Kufi..
T-shirt design: Magic e-lamp..
My August '05 T-shirt Designs ..
Your Living Space..
The Raioo Story: 2. in the garden..
The Raioo Story: 1. intro..
Arabic Beat and Instrument Music Wanted!..
 
2004
RA?NA RAI Legacy..
Algerian Chaabi..
Nour L'Koufi (Gharnati)..
Hidalgo in Morocco..
Le Secret d'Elissa Rhais..
Imam Shafii. Soni N'nafssa..
Feqqas (Moroccan Biscuiti)..
Casablanca Connect..
 
2003
ZEBDA! Un Groupe Genial!..
Al Moutanabbi. Idha Ghamarta..
Imam Shafii. sa'fir tajid 3iwada..
boston.food.Tangierino..
Long Distance Honey ..
The Working Wife and Husband..
The Hammam Public Bath: Do you still go there?..
Hip Hop Classic Favorites!..
Down With Love..
Lord Of The Rings..
How To create a Moroccan remix of a video clip ? ..
 
2002
Why we don't eat Porc?..
Do You Play Music?..
Hidoura: Your Moroccan Natural Carpet..
Khaddouj Slam-dunking From Marrakesh To New York..


FAVORITES
Hmida Rass Lmida à L'Avare de Molière!
Moroccan City Names
Shining ability is a gift...
Halloween SPECIAL 2007: La Mort D'une Souri!
Cheikha Rimitti: 83 Years of Life...
Why do we pray ?
short ones
ABSOLUTE RAIOO Summer 2007 Rai vol.2
Cheba Zohra & Mahadattes de Rilizane
Close Encounters of the Moroccan Kind!
Biyouna
Another attempt at writing. Will this language ever feel natural?
North Africa Journal
Moroccan Tattoos
From Los Angeles to Casablanca!
Amina Alaoui Lyrics
Dr. Hassan Al-Turabi
Vulgarity as revolution: Lemsakh we tsalguit
Les Oiseaux De Figuig!
ghir bessyas a moulay!
QURAN FLASH
Moroccan Playing Cards Game ronda v1.0
A Call From Algeria to Help Suffering Little Boy Mounib!
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