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GIRLS TALK
Adnane Ben.
Boston USA
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71
comments.
Women of Morocco: Household and Society Pivots.
12:00:00 AM Wednesday Jul 9, 2003



Proposed by Aziz, Canton MA - USA -- edited by Adnane(Raioo)

As we advance into the new millenium, we see the Moroccan woman achieving more and more outside of her household. She is active daily in her school, her career or other social activities. This would not have been possible without the openness and tolerance Morocco chooses to adapt, unlike many other Arab countries. But there is still more to be achieved. What are the challenges facing women in Morocco? How far should they go to break taboos? what was their role in our old society, not-too old society, present society, and what does Morocco expect from them in the future? Do these expectations require changing around some traditions? some laws? some social, religious and business methods? some behavior of the Moroccan man? of the Moroccan familly? of the street?

Women in the western world exceeded their intellectual, political and social presence to physical defiance (Example of Anneka the swedish golfer). What good essence can we all learn from the western society that can bring to different fronts more and more women of Morocco.

This topic hopes to inspire the young generations of Moroccans to positively affect the women of future generations.

The content of this page —graphics, text and other elements—is © Copyright 2007 prospective author, and Raioo, Inc., only when stated otherwise, and may not be reprinted or retransmitted in whole or in part without the expressed written consent of the publisher.



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10:45 am    February 15, 2007
OK__
71
35
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·

1:06 pm    September 21, 2006
coco
70
69
effectively,it is very hard to balance between a good quality home life an to preceive a career,specially when you leave out side of morocco and having someone to help you is very expensive .
And if the couple have kids then it gets worst.
·

10:18 am    July 4, 2005
samia
69
hi guys,

This is a cool story,

more than a 1400 yrs ago, that was this man called mohammad s.a.w, he was 20 or 21, he used to work as a business man in the middle east, he then met Khadija, who used to be a very very rich business women in arabia. After that, he propose to her and married her. She then decided to give him all her money and wealth and make him the president, the leader of all her properties and belongings... she said it was important for her to please her husband........and make sure when he gets home, he will have confort. she cooked for him, and was there for him whenever he needed her. All those beautiful things she did for him made him love her and respect her and hold her in a very high position. They lived a very happy healthy life.

Now this is an other story,

Mlle. Hanan, et Mr. Adnane were classmates at the univesity of XXXX. they were dating each other " hiding from their parents saying that they needed to do homework and played cache'cache" . After gratuation one went to the US the other to france, they broke up and start dating other people. hanan met this moroccan etucated guy "youness" and she married him. when youness comes home hanan is still outside at work or she just got home tired. there is no food at home, the house is in a mess. both tired, hangry and angry after a long day of work, so they both need someone for confort. they start living unhappily. Yeah! they are making money... both of them, but this money is to pay bills for 2 cars, gaz, food to go... quality of life goes down...........................then when they have kids..babysitter, la bonne......ect.

Now to save their marriage they need to go to take a look at this post

"How to diagnose a healthy relationship?"

peace :)

·

11:41 am    June 29, 2005
Amani
68
1
To the Morroccan ladies.....Are non-Moroccan women married to Moroccan man welcome in Morocco or are they frown upon?
·

12:29 pm    July 20, 2003
MashTadiaLGarN
67
GOGO :NY wrote :

"To be honest with u ,some women love to be beat up....believe me..cos my relative is one of those ,she told me "I feel extremely happy when my husband beat me or kick me that`s way every time she complain I just ignore her cos she encourage him to do so....and many many ladies are like this one."

-In general , that type of woman have been abused since early age. She grows up with a poor self- esteem, and in her eyes, the pysically abusive partener takes the role of a protector . So she submits herself to the "Ndorbek wman khalli men ydorbek" principle, and in a twisted way, she starts enjoying the physical pain .
To her, being beaten up is a proof that he cares about her .
That's what masochism is all about. (grosso modo)


·

6:08 am    July 20, 2003
MashTadiaLGarN
66
Arabi^7ta^Nmout

"I don't think that law allows husbands to physically correct their women, but in our culture they sure have and exercise that right."

-Yes, "culturally", beating up a woman is accepted by the ignorant section of the Moroccans, but legally, and according to the Moroccan law, a man has no right to beat up his wife, much less his sister or relative...
If the woman sues him, he can get up to 6 months in jail .
wich I think is fair !


·

5:33 am    July 20, 2003
65
63
personality and bla bla bla.You must live one day in a woman skin in morroco to understand what the girls are talking about!
A syadna we are not talking here about psycological matters, we are talking about laws and rights!the psy analysis can come further,
When we speak about repudiation, it is a legal issue.Of course the environment matters, but the first stepto make an environment change is education and LAWS.
·

11:21 pm    July 19, 2003
be cool as chid
64
asslam aliakoum,
after reading all these intresting articles i just find out that nobody mention Marrige counseling!
beleive it or not, this will help couples to start respecting and understand each other much better; and will help them stop the abuse and violence that some of our moroccan families still suffer from
have a nice day
·

10:47 pm    July 19, 2003
yyouness10
63
Assalam ou alikom.
This is my first time posting on this site so if you allow me, I would like to spell out my humble thought about the matter.
Finger pointing was and will never be a wise solution to a problem. Men are to be blamed for women?s misery or the other way around is a pathetic statement, with all respect. The problem is a lot deeper than just stereotyping. Our personality is a combination of environmental, social and psychological factors. Those factors contribute generously to the creation of an aggressive or a calm personality. If you grow up in an environment where your father, uncle, neighbor etc. knock their wives out then you are more vulnerable to such a behavior.
I know that our society promote such a behavior and I think one of the member gave a perfect example ? a man can beat his wife on public and no one has the right to stop him? yes that is true but from a cultural point of view. Legally, anyone can interfere if he/she anticipates that one of the people fighting/arguing can be harmed. As a citizen you can even detain the assailant but you have to verbally announce the following statement ? citizen arrest?
In the hand of Law, and regardless to the relationship between the assailant and the victim, causing a physical or psychological damage is a misdemeanor if not a felony. Our women need to know their right and put their men on a check. Fortunately, most of them are educated now and they hopefully can handle the matter in a sophisticated manner. The good news is that I heard that some women are beatting their husbands now:) is that a good or bad. it depends on what kind of man he is:) just kidding. noone has the right to abuse others.
·

11:06 pm    July 18, 2003
be cool as chid
62
45
hey our man in the moon,
thanks for ur truth buddy, im just impressed about the way u express urself. yes we all have mum and sisters...that's why we know how to respect not only our moroccan women but women all around the world.
i just can't see my life without my lovely caring wife...sometimes i get mad about the way she fixed her hair...but who cares i love her :)
·

3:01 pm    July 18, 2003
GOGO
61
59
nice one[ALLAHE YA3TIKE ASSA7A.
·

2:57 pm    July 18, 2003
GOGO
60
Salam,
As what we said befor messages 54,55 both men &women should help the situation by acting as a mature resonable,respectable people ,but still other organisations such as the law,religion can affect thier solidaity and agreement.
If we start teaching the new
generation the first principle of islam and if this generation find a good environment of law that will difinitely creat a perfect generation.
peace&love.
·

2:48 pm    July 18, 2003
Arabi^7ta^Nmout
59
This is another joke for the ladies :) . GUYS BE CAREFUL, DO NOT STEP ON A DUCK :)

Three women die together in an accident and go to heaven.

When they get there, heaven guardian angel says, "We only have one rule here in heaven: don't step on the ducks!"

So they enter heaven, and sure enough, there are ducks all over the place. It is almost impossible not to step on a duck, and although they try their best to avoid them, the first woman accidentally steps on one.

Along comes the angel with the ugliest man she ever saw.

the angel chains them together and says, "Your punishment for stepping on a duck is to spend eternity chained to this ugly man!"

The next day, the second woman steps accidentally on a duck and along comes the angel, who doesn't miss a thing. With him is another extremely ugly man. He chains them together with the same admonishment as for the first woman.

The third woman has observed all this and, not wanting to be chained for all eternity to an ugly man, is very, VERY careful where she steps.

She manages to go months without stepping on any ducks, but one day the angel comes up to her with the most handsome man she has ever laid eyes on ... very tall, long eyelashes, muscular, and thin.

the angel chains them together without saying a word.

The happy woman says, "I wonder what I did to deserve being chained to you for all of eternity?"

The guy says, "I don't know about you, but I stepped on a duck!"

hehhehehehee good one!

·

2:20 pm    July 18, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
58
Kaygoul lmatala ( ma7akk jeldek b7al defrek)
so we shouldn`t wait for religious scholars or moroccan law to tell you something, it is very clear in our Religion that a man should not beat his wife, under no reason but the one mentioned in the quran, that is the only time that you can Hit your wife(slightly) machi darb mubarra7 b7al lli kanchoufou, BUT if you get to the Point that you need to hit your wife YOU ARE NOT A MAN, PLUS hitting somebody in the FACE is 7aram.

We have every thing in the Quran and Ahadiths if we learn from them we will live happily....

·

2:05 pm    July 18, 2003
GOGO
57
56
Hi brother,
I understood what you said ,those are really facts we live to see them happen every day......and not only the culture the women too are responsible;
To be honest with u ,some women love to be beat up....believe me..cos my relative is one of those ,she told me "I feel extremely happy when my husband beat me or kick me that`s way every time she complain I just ignore her cos she encourage him to do so....and many many ladies are like this one.
As u said ,the Moroccan law,and the relijious scholars have to do some thing with that.
peace&love
·

10:23 am    July 18, 2003
Arabi^7ta^Nmout
56
51
Adnane,
I don't know whether you were addressing me on your last posted message or not (may message 50) but I'll respond as if you were.

Please read that posted message (47) again and hopefully will have a different, true meaning of what really I wanted to deliver. But just in case here is what I meant; men in our society are sort of allowed to beat up on their women. I don't think anyone can deny that fact. We have seen women beat up, screeming their lungs out for help; when help comes along, and pleople find out the offender is the husband, they all back off or try to reason with husband while his still swinging at his wife as she were a sand bag. I don't think that law allows husbands to physically correct their women, but in our culture they sure have and exercise that right.

Peace N Love

NB: GOGO, "peasfully,I want to know how come should the women battle for her own respect without men`s help?". Not true I didn't said, her is what I said in message 47 " I say again Moroccan women should fight their own battle, and I assure you that you'll have many Moroccan gentlemens' support.".

Peace N Love

·

10:22 am    July 18, 2003
A man in the Man
55
There will be no prostitute if there was not a man involved with her. I noticed one thing about our moroccan men, after they sleep witha girl, the first thing they say. She is a bitch, sorry for the word. I reply thay You are a bitch too, since you slept with her. Why do we like always to put blame on women? Those stupid men, He spends all his life sleeping around and crushing other girls hearts and in the end, he wants a virgin, clean woman. Don't we think that the stratum of our moroccan society is corrupted? When I was mad that Prostitution is increasing in our country, I meant that why can't women stand against it and refuse to sell their bodies for wolves in the image of humans? It's the necessity, the need. Our country has nothing to offer to these women, that why they find the only way to make a living is to whore around. So Guys whenever you see a prostitute, Try to pray for her, cos I am sure if she has the means she wouldn't do that. I am sorry guys,But always try to define what kind of society are we? The majority of women back home are uneducated. Isn't it a shame? Even our norms, and customs degrade women. So what do we expect from a society that Men themselves are oppressed? I am sure when men learn how to respect themselves then they will understand that there is a woman that needs respect too.
Peace & love
·

9:16 am    July 18, 2003
GOGO
54
47
Hi ,
peasfully,I want to know how come should the women battle for her own respect without men`s help?
Let`s me explain it to u in a proper way...For example...I am a respected woman I never ever wear dissolute cloths...or even exagerate on make up ...but any time I go to morocco, men made passes on me with thier own magic { nnaggane}.
That`s really shame.
Also I want to discuss the issue of prostitution in Morocco..I am very sad to hear that this problem is increasing each day but still the one to blame is the man, becuase when this kind of woman practice prostitution under the power of poverty,drugs,deviation,[torture as u said they beat thier wives in the streets] ,there is a partner who is definitely the man .
So the solution is , to put hands together and respect each other by fallowing owr islamic education.
·

12:31 am    July 18, 2003
oasienne
53
51
well adnane , to be more precisei posted a link about the legal texts in morroco concerning women, some posts ago, wonder if someone read it.
Here it is again:
http://www.bibliomonde.com/pages/fiche-geo-donnee.php3?id_page_donnee=43

I agree that this discussion tends to be emotionnal and not rational, which means this subjectis really a core one:)

·

12:27 am    July 18, 2003
oasienne
52
45
thank you for this sweet feeling:)
To the others: i agree discussion about intelligence degrees for women or men is stupid and ridiculous, that is what i said.
I must admit that i took my engineering school as an exemple, it is neither a theory nor a generalization.
Anyway world need free , respected women.
Here we go!
·

8:53 pm    July 17, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
51
Who told you a man has the right to beat his wife in public in Morocco ?

I notice we tend to get subjective, some more extremely than others, which makes any discussion less progressive. Let's please learn to read all previous posts, if you're new, and to think better before responding. Please try to back your facts with sources, preferrably authoritative.. I find statistics useless if you don't provide sources.. and for me statistics can be misleading, if you don't understand them no need to use them.

Mouhim, thanks for your contributions anyways.

·

8:04 pm    July 17, 2003
MashtadiaLGarN
50
Arabi^7ta^Nmout wrote :
"For example, Why should a man have the right to beat up his wife in public and get away with it. WE ALL HAVE SEEN IT IN THE STREETS. "


- Just because "we" saw it in the street, it doesn't mean that such an act is legal by law...

·

4:51 pm    July 17, 2003
Arabi^7ta^Nmout
49
Here is a good joke for the ladies :)

Adam was hanging around the garden of Eden feeling very lonely.

So, God asked him, "What's wrong with you?" Adam said he didn't
have anyone to talk to. God said that He was going to make Adam
a companion and that it would be a woman.

He said, "This pretty lady will gather food for you, she will cook
for you, and when you discover clothing, she will wash it for you.

She will always agree with every decision you make and she will not nag you, and will always be the first to admit she was wrong when
you've had a disagreement. She will praise you!

She will bear your children. and never ask you to get up in the
middle of the night to take care of them.

"She will NEVER have a headache and will freely give you love and
passion whenever you need it."

Adam asked God, "What will a woman like this cost?"

God replied, "An arm and a leg."

Then Adam asked, "What can I get for a rib?"

Of course the rest is history.

Peace N Love

·

2:57 pm    July 17, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
48
WELL A SSI L7AREG, oasienne, didn`t say that women were smarter than men , she said that some people think that men are smarter than women, and she gave an Example by the school, and i Agree , when i was growing up in every single grade, Girls were generally better than boys, but that doesn`t make girls smarter than boys, or boys smarter than girls...

Al2umm madrassatoun ida a3dadtaha a3dadta cha3ban 6ayebba al2a3ra9i,

women are the ones who raise kids(boys and girls) so if we educate that woman she will raise her kids in a better way than if she is not educated,

BUT since we always have those who say that women should stay home and they shouldn`t go to school, we will never make a progress.....

Educate your mothers your sisters, your wives, your daughters, and see how we will be......,when i say educate i don`t mean just educate them to get a job , i mean educate them as well about their religion , so they`ll know that their husbands cannot put a hand on them or take their money, or , or ,or,
Men don`t fear other Men or women, they only fear GOD (sometimes) .

allah y3awenkoum addereyat, yla bghitou mussa3ada ghir sewllou

·

2:40 pm    July 17, 2003
Arabi^7ta^Nmout
47
46
GOGO, unfortunetly you, as a Moroccan woman, have to earn your own respect instead of waiting for men to learn how to do so...Men may never change just because the current situation is convenient for them and gives them an advantage over women, so why should men bother. I hope you see what I mean. When I talk about respect, I mean women should be protected under the Moroccan law (Moudawana) just like men are. For example, Why should a man have the right to beat up his wife in public and get away with it. WE ALL HAVE SEEN IT IN THE STREETS. Why this, why that....there is so many unfair situation I can recite to you that many moroccan women find themselves in. Moroccan Women include each and every women from any social class in Morocco. If you wonder why Morocco is well known in Arab countries and others for prostetution, then the reason is beacuse there are a lot of single moms out there hustling to bring up their children no matter at what cost.

I say again Moroccan women should fight their own battle, and I assure you that you'll have many Moroccan gentlemens' support.

Peace N Love.

·

2:13 pm    July 17, 2003
GOGO
46
45
To the man in the moon,
Your thinking is absolutely right......
I only can say , that if only 50% of moroccan men have the same thimking as you ,we will gain the respect that we really deserve.
·

1:40 pm    July 17, 2003
A Man In The Moon
45
Enough of fighting over who is smart, and who is dumb? We need solutions now. We need to learn something from this discussion and build a new idea about each gender rights. I respect Women, and I love them, I can't see my life without a woman, and also I wanna see a happy woman, talented, and devoted. This is what we need. Yes, women in our country are oppressed, we need to free them, and give them what they need and crave for. First of all, Respect. We have to respect them, No matter what the case is, and We need to help them, and make them feel that there is no difference between male or female. Sometimes, I imagine our existence without a woman. Well, If that's case Adam will be in paradise alone, wandering around. Women are that spice which makes everything has a taste in our life whether it is good or bad. I love you women, I love my mum and sisters. Thank You for being in our lives.
Peace out.
·

11:39 am    July 17, 2003
Arabi^7ta^Nmout
44
Man Rights = Woman Rights

To satisfy the equation above, women need to act upon making the change in laws containing any innequality of the two genders. Moroccan women will be surprised how much support Moroccan man will give them in their battle to equal rights or at least improved rights.

If you don't stand up for your rights, no one will.

Peace N Love

·

11:31 am    July 17, 2003
Arabi^7ta^Nmout
43
Unbelievable 7areg!!
Are you saying that your mom, sister, and all women are dumb. I wouldn't want to touch on that if I were you. However, you are right! You cannot base your argument on some special cases to make a general statement. But isn't that exactly what you did by giving an example of women, classmates, seeking help, but who isn't?. The problem being basic is relaitve to whoever asks the question. There are always many angles to view a problem, sometimes it makes sense and other times you're just clueless, which doesn't necessarly lable you stupid. Furthermore, there are a lot of women scientists and pretty darn good ones too. So yes 7areq you cannot base your argument on particular cases you claim to have experienced. Now, as far as if women are smarter than man, that's a big and different debate.

NB: I come from a woman, and I am to a woman.

Peace N Love

·

11:10 am    July 17, 2003
newraiooer
42
good point Adnane.
Any person, man or woman, can ask questions to clarify something. It doesn't make him or her to be stupid.
You may be good at something and bad in another, so does a woman.
·

10:02 am    July 17, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
41
40
7areg, if someone is asking a basic question then automatically he or she is asking a SMART question. The worst thing is when you don't understand something and you don't ask the question. So keep this in mind next time someone asks you what you perceive as a basic question.
·

9:39 am    July 17, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
7areg
40
oasienne ::
Ladies beeing on top of their promotion does not prove that they r smarter , u can't go from a special case , and make a general theory

at least that's what i learned in our ENGINEERING school , where the ladies were always begging for help understanding the most basic concepts . no need to mention where they ranked lol

no offence oasienne , that was just to put u back on track

·

9:33 am    July 17, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
39
To the new raiooer,
You example is not a fact, it is not true that men in europe are more respectful towards women than Moroccan Men in the US, i don`t think that you know that many people to generalize.
amicalement.
·

9:29 am    July 17, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
38
To the Man on the Man who said that WOMEN HAVE ALWAYS TO CARRY THEIR HUSBANDS LAST NAME,
Please know that you are WRONG, since Most of us are Muslims, IN islam a woman have to keep who last name , a woman should never change her last name,

EVEN in the west that women have to carry their husbands last name , it is acceptable sometimes that a woman can keep her last name.

If men were smarter than women, we wouldn`t see the Prophet(PBUH) doing what his wife(umm salama) suggested that he do in sul7 al7udaybiya.


·

9:28 am    July 17, 2003
newraiooer
37
Thanks for the poster ( a man) of this topic. thanks for thinking about your women compatriotes, your mom and sisters.
I didn't look at any statistical results but I think moroccan women are becoming more responsable, mature, educated and independant than many men moroccan. That's what bothers many men. That's a change men have hard time to accept in general. Independant doesn't mean we, moroccan women, don't want moroccan men, we will accept a man who respects us for what we are. Life is changing, a man is scared to lose his authority on woman, so he considers her as a slut if she's better than him or she's too different from him. That's my point of view, I lived in France and in US, I found moroccan men in Europe more respectful towards their moroccan women than moroccan men in the US. Is it because moroccan men are more educated in Europe than in the US, or is it the american conservative environment that influences their behaviour?
For those who thinks that moroccan women are slut, just let me remind them that they have sisters, mom and many women in their family. or do they think, "toutes les femmes sont putes sauf ma mere".
·

9:14 am    July 17, 2003
36
Hillou :) this is my way to prove that women are smarter than men :) hihihi ....
A Woman and a Man are both
involved in a car accident...
Neither are hurt, but their cars are
smashed up.
After they crawl out of their cars,
The woman says; "So you're a man - That's
interesting. I'm a woman..."
"...Our cars are completely demolished,
yet neither of us are hurt! This must be a sign
from God!"
The man replied; "Oh yes, I completely agree
with you. This must be some sort of sign!"
The woman continued; "And look, here's another
miracle. My car is completely smashed, yet this
bottle didn't even break! How about a drink to
celebrate our good fortune?"
The man nods and drinks half the bottle,
then passes it back to her.
The woman simply puts the cap back on,
and hands it back to the man.
"Aren't you
going to have a drink?" Asked the man.
To which the woman replies;
"No thanks. I think I'll just wait for the
cops to show up!"

hehehe ... thellaw...

·

9:09 am    July 17, 2003
newraiooer
35
Molzari3a, you're not doing a fair comparison. When there is only in morocco, 65% of illiterate women, How can you expect to have scientic women. Being smart is not only being a scientic or having a degree .Being smart is also how successfully you handle your life with less or no means. Just think about your mom. do you think that your mom is a dumb one because she's not scientic.
·

2:29 am    July 17, 2003
oasienne
34
33
INDEED Freedom is to say what u want!
·

1:32 am    July 17, 2003
A man in the Man
33
Well, I noticed one things while I did a thesis about the dominance of men over women. There are certain things that we as men can't change, and have no hand in it. I figured out that Women are really dominated in every issue...I can state some examples: whenever we want to mention a human being as an entity, we say Man-with a capital M. why don't we say Woman? Also morphologically, We say a sterward for a man, and a stewardess for a woman. That prefix is added. Women always have to carry their husbands last name, why don't we as men carry women's last name? Don't we think that there is something upper than us, that has decided the order of everything. Sister Oasienne, Yes Appearance is not that important, But It still plays a great deal in building an image about the person. and I am sorry to say, that some women think that freedom is wear what you like, and say what you want, while It is only to give each one of us ,whether a man or a woman, the right for a decent humble life.
Peace and love
·

12:10 am    July 17, 2003
oasienne
32
30
pffffffffff it is like we come back at the begining of century when racist were talking about races, now you are speaking irrationnally about gender.
Well in my engineer school, we were 10 girls among 40 boys in our promortion.We were always on the top , getting the best marks.
Anyways, for anyone here who has studied some science, i find it quite ridiculous to go through assertions like: men are smarter than women.
It is not even worth a discussion.
The subject here is: women rights in morroco, and we are talking about the primary rights, no the right to wear a mini-skirt etcc, cause appearance is not that important.
·

12:02 am    July 17, 2003
oasienne
31
an interresting link :

http://www.bibliomonde.com/pages/fiche-geo-donnee.php3?id_page_donnee=43

·

10:20 pm    July 16, 2003
moulzarri3a
30
Adnane, you know google is for everybody and i'm sure you will get a lot of statistics there that will proove my point....however i can give you a simple example take the ratio of how many man scientists are out there compared to how many women scientists..i'm not saying women are not smart but what i'm saying is that women are certainly not smarter than man and this does not mean that i consider women as the inferior gender...we are equal in our rights and duties it's just physical and mental differences (like women are more mature than men)
·

9:12 pm    July 16, 2003
GOGO
29
28
Hi brother,
I appreciate your admission,that`s really nice of u and I wish u a good luck.
I want to add something...actually these days, I observe that many egyptian men are getting married to a morccan ladies and I am one of them ,being close to egyptian friends I noticed that thier women are very spoiled [they are bossing thier husband around .and that `s why they give up and they choose others as moroccan ladies..
Also, I can tell u that moroccan girls besides thier negative sides, they are very simple and patients .and these quality is the most important thing ever.
One more thing ,I do also admit that man with his power ,can affect his girl or wife and change her to the best.
bye bye.
·

8:33 pm    July 16, 2003
A man in the Man
28
One Thing I believe in, is that women are smart whether we want it or not. I am a man, and I do admit that women are the smartest gender. Still the division of labour and social stratum put women as inferior to men. I do agree with you Sanita and Honest moroccan lady, That there are some good moroccan women, which is true and I do believe they are. But to my own luck, I have never met the right one, and I am not sad about it, cos Thankfully I am happy with the woman I am with now. I am seeking to see women invading every domain of our life, cos they have so many things to offer. That would be a great thing to see Our ladies free and strong...
Peace and love
·

7:37 pm    July 16, 2003
sanita
27
the answer to the question " are women smarter than men?

http://objectz.com/columnists/denise/06042001.asp

CONCLUSION:
"Thus one gender is not superior to the other, but just different. Whether we like to admit it or not, women and men have different life experiences which form their personalities and abilities. We should embrace these differences and not strive to prove one better than the other. In the realm of technology development and use, our society desperately needs diversity to ensure that the technology is useful for everyone (not just the 49% male population). That means more women must take part in technology and computer science activities in all areas from research and design, to development and usage, to implementation and policy."

·

7:29 pm    July 16, 2003
sanita
26
I truely believe that Moroccan Women are hardworking and very protective specially when it comes to their families...J'ai bcq d'estime pour elles. ce n'est pas facile pour elles (surtout celles qui habitent au maroc) de survire la3assak reussir a cause des conditions dures et problemes qu'elles doivent confronter au quotidien. mais encore la ou tu vas tu trouves le bien et le mal.....el matal dit qui se semble se rassemble wald nass ki 3raf wlad nass et vice versa
·

7:27 pm    July 16, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
25
23
moulzarri3a, I haven't made any sense of your post yet. You agree with yourself by yourself - like we say in Morocco. Where is your proof that the smart-o-meter ratio you're talking about will "definitely be in favor of men".. ??? I hope you have a good "smart" and intelligent argument to back your post. Remember that an intelligent argument is one that solves a familly of problems, meaning everyone reading your post should say.. aaahhh that's right! if x, and y and z, then men are smarter than women..! well I'm curious to learn what is your x, y and Z!
·

5:28 pm    July 16, 2003
moulzarri3a
24
women rights in Morocco? Maybe the Tunisian model would be a great lesson to learn from....i mean our women should have as much rights as Tunisian women and why not more as long as it does not affect her negatively...
too much power kills
·

5:25 pm    July 16, 2003
moulzarri3a
23
8
Sanita wrote: Women are "more responsible, more mature, and smarter"
you are right that women are more responsible and sometimes more mature but i have to disagree with you when you said that they are smarter...of course you can't genrelize, but if we take a ratio of who is smarter it will definetly be in favor of man (no offfense).
·

5:03 pm    July 16, 2003
a honest moroccan lady
22
Hi guys,
Actually I am totally disagree with u [those who generalize the bad reputation of moroccan girls].
I don`t blame u at all some girls give a bad immage to morocco...but still not all of them...
I am a moroccan lady ,when I came here to the USA I was alone I lived by my self I studied hard .because of the high expenses I decided to live with anouther girl [from morocco}.She is really perfect she finished her [master in maths and now she is doing her [phd].
About me I am married I love my husband and I am trying to make him happy as much as I can....
There are more and more to tell u about my friends who really represent a good example of moroccan ladies.
·

3:49 pm    July 16, 2003
A man in the moon
21
Aziz, why would you attack me like that? That's a reality check, and what I am saying is from a personal experience. You may have had a good one, mine was futile. Still, why don't we respect other pple point of view. It's my own view, so take it or leave it. I bet one day you will understand what I mean. Anyway, this is not a stereotype, and I am not trying to throw accusations for free, It's what the majority of us think.
Peace and love.
·

3:46 pm    July 16, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
20
18
You said: "Let's face it, I had the craziest sex scenes with moroccan girls, than with americans" --- I do not wish to know what you define as "crazy" in your sex dictionnary, but I can see that you are shooting yourself in the foot. You are condemning how girls have sex in Morocco or whatever you're implying by calling them "sluts" - maybe you need to work on your terminology; and on the other hand you are encouraging their decisions and sexual behaviour by sharing the moment. I do not judge their decisions to have sex with you, but I can clearly see your decisions as contradicting to "your" principles you are boasting about. But then again, I cannot judge you, maybe you were lured into it, or too hot to resist the moment.. oh well, so much for the big resistance you are asking Moroccan women to MAKE.

Emotions apart, I invite you to read again your post slowly. I'm sure you are capable of making more logical, and less contradicting arguments in your next post.

·

2:54 pm    July 16, 2003

Aziz Bezza message
19
16
shame on you. your rude accusations are sensless. where does peace and love stand in all what you said. i lived in europe for almost three years and the same period of time in the US. I've ever met the kind of girls you have discribed.why don't you come down from the moon, and get some reality check.and let me tell you nothing is your business if you see a girl drink, everybody has got his own life and is free to do what he wants.
on my part most of the Moroccan women i've met were nice and respectful.and i feel a great deal of pride interacting with my fellow Moroccans men & women.
man of the moon get over you lame way of prejudice and stop confusing your self and others.bad boys&girls might be everywere so don't start a stereotype that can hurt thousands of our morccan women living abroad.
·

2:53 pm    July 16, 2003
A man in The moon
18
Adnane, I am not here to judge them , but this is what everyone thinks of them. I do respect them, But still, We don't have to forget our backgrounds, We are muslim, and Our way of living doesn't reflect anything about Our religion though. I am not to define limits for anyone, and my point of view stands from my own experience. I do have a girlfriend, and I have my own sisters.This is the bare truth Adnane, You can't deny it, Just visit Morocco, and amke a comparison with the US. Our girls have overpassed their limits. Moreover, I didn't judge them by what they wear, but with what they do also. Let's face it, I had the craziest sex scenes with moroccan girls, than with americans. All the girls from all around the world have some dignity apart from our Moroccans girls. I amy be wrog in your eyes, But this is again my personal experience. I stand for it, and call me sick or retarded or anything. There is no hope in our girls since they don't free their mind from the western world, and go back to their roots.
Peace out.
·

1:55 pm    July 16, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
17
16
How can you judge a Moroccan girl as a slut just by what she is wearing? I think such judgements are non-sense. Many girls, especially the new generation, just like boys, want to enjoy current fashion, trends and so on. It's a phase everyone goes through, even many of us have familly members who went through that phase in the 60s and 70s, hair styles, talon so high, tight jeans and clothes, mini jupe..etc Please be fair towards Moroccan women especially in giving them the freedom to wear whatever they desire. Yes there are limits, and it is better to let the person define their own limits. It is extremely embarassing to go on defining limits for others. A person is able to figure out these things on their own, maybe their familly can help them, remind tehm.. but it is a though thing nowadays to talk and talk about how this girl is behaving, wearing bla bla when the guy IS NOT LOOKING AT HIMSELF! or even his sister, girlfriend or wife. So before you judge look inside yourself and see if you are capable of practicing what you are preaching!
·

12:58 pm    July 16, 2003
A man In the moon
16
Well, That's a good subject. I was thinking about it for so many years now, especially after the 90s of the last century. Everything has changed drastically Backhome. Women are looking for freedom and their own rights, which a good sign, but what Freedom are they looking for? I was hoping that they should fight for a personal freedom, not a freedom brought to us by western countries. I feel that women don't wanna be free, but they wanna rebel against the norms, Cos everyone can see the result of this freedom. Wearing what you like, and dressing like a slut is not gonna make you cool or stylish. I agree with Chawch. I believe that all the girls that I have met in the US drink and smoke. I hate to see a woman smoke or drink, cos for me a woman is the source of love and affection, and to destroy her image like that is a little bit Bad. Another thing, whenever I ask someone Hw is morocco? The same answer, a lot of sluts. I am sorry for the word. But is this the freedom that Our moroccan women are seeking ? Why can't we just think for a while about those imported ideas that are imposed on our women? I would love to see our women reaching hig ranks, But not to forget that no matter who they are, they are still muslims, and arabic. Cos It really makes me feel stranger when I meet a girl that has no identity, not moroccan and not american, just a lost soul fetching the void. I am so sorry to say That Moroccan men have a great problem finding local girls that fit our personalities. Nobody here in the US is happy about the way our moroccan sisters lead their life.
I have Nothing against our Ladies, Apart from That we love you, and we want you to be free, but not to free your bodies, But to free your minds and show us that Behind every great man there is a great woman.
Peace and Love
·

12:50 am    July 16, 2003
oasienne
15
14
well said aziz:) tbark allah 3lik.
We must fight for ou rights as citizens that's a fact, specially that evrybody speaks about relative tolerance in the kingdom after years and decades of rough repression..
Hope they will let us fight...
·

6:17 pm    July 15, 2003

Aziz Bezza message
14
hello all,
first thank you adnane for picking my suggestion, i appreciate it and i hope one day the majority of our Morrocan women look like the ones in the picture.
while surfing in the net,i entered the US department of state and then to the REPORTS OF HUMAN RIGHTS PRACTICES IN MOROCCO. let me tell you it's devestating when you read in the women section. no matter how far we have gone our women(sisters,mothers, wife, freinds...etc) are still subjected to various forms of legal and cultural discrimination.Their civil right status is governed by the code of personal status(moudawana).which has been slightly amended in 1993.dispite the firm opposition of the islamic hardliners.
It's an alarming call to all civilized Moroccans,to stand up, speak up for reforms on this issue.or in an undetermined number of future generations we will face the same Morocco where the illiteracy rate for women exceeds 67%(83% in rural areas). where the sexual assaults often unreported because of the stigma attached to the loss of virginity. and more other issues.
Women's groups should press more to achieve their goal,Men who sympathize with this cause should fight the islamic radical moronic views. with all my respect to moderates.
·

12:05 am    July 14, 2003
oasienne
13
5
welle let me say hicham that women's rights movement in morroco don't only focus on women of "bougeoisie" as you may think.
You can take as an exemple the association of ?Aicha echenna which helps women coming from the lower level of our country, specially girls which have been forced to prostitute, girls wich had been pregnant out of marriage etc.
This woman does a lot, but it is still not enough.
When we are talking about women's right in morroco, most of us mean the moudawwana reform, because when you read the text of the moudawwana carefully you can only get shocked.
The religious arguments can not be held because every muslim sociaty sould do some ijtihad to be coherent with men's evolution.
In tunisia(which is not really a democracy) they have made a lot of progress in that field.

·

10:28 am    July 13, 2003
DerivedVision
12

Chawch-
wow...95% of the women you have met outside Morocco drink alcohol ?!
Scary estimate...! :/
I suppose you go to the wrong places...:)
Hopefully you have managed to calculate the percentage of morocan men you have met , and who had "L9ar3a" as their best friend too...:)

just kidding ;)


PS: drinking alcohol doesn't mean being integrated to any society ... learning is ! :)

·

9:19 am    July 12, 2003
Woman
11
I think women in Morocco should make whatever chooses they feel comfortable with. If you feel like staying home and being a housewife than do so. If you feel like working outside the household than do so. Both can be done with in tradition or religious standards.
·

8:40 am    July 12, 2003
chawch
10
9
I hope this openness and freedom
will allow Moroccain Women to bring some success and good thing to Moroccain Society which I didn't think will happen accourding
to 95% of Moroccain Women I had meet outside Morocco that already drink and integrat in western Society
it's a reall disappointment and big shame on Moroccain values and culture .

Allah I sawab.

·

10:00 pm    July 11, 2003

wedadeya message
9
First Offf thanXx a ton 4 having this disscusion, all I can say 4 right now is that a Women can Do just as much as a man can do and in some casese even better ( NO OFFENCE),, But the women of morocco are progressing and soooner or later Ull see Us on Top, Ill be back later 2 add more :)
·

9:02 pm    July 11, 2003
sanita
8
I was talking to Adnane about the fact that women are taking over and that this is not a man's world anymore. The world is changing and evolving; women these days play an important rule in shaping not only the economy but also every aspect of our lives. Women are forced to join the workforce for economical reasons and their nature (more responsible, more mature, and smarter) help them stay focused and therefore succeed in everything they get involved in. So Gentlemen, it's time to just lay back and let women do what they were destined to do. Make this world a better place....peace
·

8:53 pm    July 11, 2003
Why?!@#$
7
Hillou :) ... how y'all doing ? hope all of you are doing good .. and taking care of business :) ... well my friends ... women in Morocco ... hmmm ach ngoule ... they are like we say in Arabic between the hammer and the anvil (bayna al mitra9a wa ssindane) ... especially that our Moroccan society and culture are identityless (by the way it's a word that I have just created) what I want to say is ... we are westernized and in the same time easternized .. the two can not co-exist together ... our parents, in our houses they are trying to raise us in an eastern-islamic way ... then when we go to the real world ... it's a totally different environment (tight pants - Pimps with there cars - bars - etc )unfortunatly that environment is the strongest ... in conclusion ... women in Morocco are lost ... I have a lot to say but this is just to start the discussion ... I hope you picture what I wanted to say .. thellaw ..
·

1:34 pm    July 11, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
6
All women in Morocco should eventually enjoy similar opportunities to grow outside of the household, rural or urban.

And yes I do think that the western woman does enjoy such opportunity, and we could explore more into why is that. One of the factors - and this is just one, I'm sure raioosters may contribute with more ideas - parents of country side in US, are pressured by law to send their children to school. If they don't, the county or state will call the parents to know why they're not schooling their kids. They investigate and help the parents resolve any issues, but the kids must go to school, or be home-schooled, in which case the parents must provide proof that they're home-schooling their kids.

This is just one factor based on education. With education, the woman has more opportunity to sprout outside of the household, seek more education more independently, and get involved in responsibilities outside of her household later on.

·

1:09 pm    July 11, 2003
Hisham
5
I would like to add that the limited progress of which you speak is not shared by "Moroccan women" across class and racial lines. Regrettably, this is a reality that is often neglected by the women's rights movement in Morocco. When we speak of women's rights in Morocco, we seem to have a particular woman in mind: secular, white, urban and often wealthy. This is especially troubling given that the above character description is applicable to a very samll segment of Moroccan society. What happens to the dark-skinned, rural, unlearned Moroccan woman? Is she a beneficiary of the progress you mentioned? Finally, it troubles me that we still view the "good ole West" as a comparative tool in measuring the progress made by Moroccan women. You mention that Moroccan women, unlike their counterparts in "Arab" countries, have advanced thanks in part to the openness and tolerance Morocco chooses to adopt? I invite you to do some research on gains by Tunisian and Jordanian women over the past decade.
·

8:59 am    July 11, 2003
Tchiko
4
great !!!
feel that we are gonna have hot conversations here!!
·

8:05 am    July 11, 2003

bou_rass message
3
That's a great subject ...thank u sooooo much for bringing up this subject ..It was the focus of our discussion in the board for days ...
·

10:03 pm    July 10, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
2
Check out this article, even though it dates back to 1997... Volunteers in Technical Assistance (VITA) Project: Reaching out to Women in Morocco

From DevelopNet News, Vol. 7, no. 8, August, 1997

·

3:43 pm    July 10, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
1
This is the first topic in this new RAIOO Channel dedicated to women. I Hope you will enjoy the topics that will be presented by us and also proposed by you. So as always, feel free to click on the Yellow button on top that says "Propose a NEW TOPIC", for now just say which channel you'd like to propose a topic, as we develop this discussion concept more. Thanks!
·

Adnane Ben.'s notes (341)
 
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Allah Made Me Funny @ Boston..
MPK20: Sun's Virtual Workplace..
Morocco Mall 2010: Largest Shopping Mall of North Africa..
U.S. House Passes Historic Ramadan Resolution..
Looking for Arabic or French to English Translator..
Dr. Hassan Al-Turabi..
My Top 5 List of Quran Recitors 2007..
Samurai Jack of Algeria..
This Moroccan Barry! and his Baraka Men La3yaqa..
Doodling: Sheikh L7ouma..
How Moroccans Put Together a Government..
Hillareous Cat Wrestles Mouse claymation!..
ABSOLUTE RAIOO Summer 2007 Rai vol.2..
ABSOLUTE RAIOO SUMMER 2007 RAI Vol 1..
Oujda Folkloric Musicians after a long day....
Iwighd Adar by Amarg Fusion !!!!..
Alalla Yallali ft. Nabila..
Jews Support the Boston Mosque..
The a la Menthe: Maghreb French RAP..
Ya Ghrib !..... ft. Khaled, Lamine, Rai NB..
Hazzou Bina La3lam: Hajja Hamdaouia!..
Ha Elkass 7loo: Hajja Hamdaouia ft. Hamid..
Boston Moroccan Tennis Club: Mini Tournament 2..
Sidi Hbibi by Mano Negra - the unexpected :)..
Le Bachir ..
Cheb Mami.. L'ancien :) Pas Le Nouveau :(..
Summer Hidden Stress..
Fanfaraï - Rai Cuivre !..
Darouha Biya Mchaw L'Mekka w'Khallawni..
CHEB ANOUAR!..
Zoo Event Organized by Al Huda..
Navigating post-divorce..
Just what is Civic Engagement?..
To Fly Boston <-> Morocco or Not..
Meetings with Moroccan Consultative Council on Human Rights..
J'irais dormir chez vous au Maroc..
Support Morocco Autonomy Initiative to solve the Sahara issu..
Les Frères Zergui..
On the Word "Plethora"..
When The Moors Ruled In Europe..
Ya Rassoul..
BARRAKA duet Cheb Khaled & Chebba Zahouania..
Cheba Zohra & Mahadattes de Rilizane..
SKyouz Me While I Light My Spliff!..
HAMIDOU, Algeria's Playboy!..
First mnanauk. Then mahdisean!..
Karima Skalli, Nassima et Leila Hejaiej..
Rym Hakiki: Matsalni Ma Ansalek..
The Road To Guantanamo..
Matejebdoulich by Djenet..
Cuban Chaabi! Guantanamera!!..
Hadj Menouer: El Batoul !..
Parske Ana Nebghi Wahran Bezzaf!..
I declare Moe a Star!..
Ahl Zin El Fassi!..
Morocco on current TV..
My South Park Character!..
Ummah Films on current.tv !! HELP NEEDED..
Ana Smayti Sa3id!..
 
2006
Al-Hawli Jokes..
Zawiya Qadiriya Boudchichiya Open Air Speech..
US Patent by Sa Majeste H. Roi du Maroc..
Jahh Bless Mon! Feeling down to earth tonight!..
Cannot Believe These Idiots!..
NESS LA CITY: All?e Sans Retour! LOL..
When Lotfi Attar Rides Matabkish wave! You Lissann mon!..
KUDOS TO Cheikh Sidi Bemol & Band!!..
No Comment! DARRITOUNI.....
Mortality Meets Online Status..
Michael Richard Busted and Sorry!..
The UMMA Clinic..
Hanane Fadili Take on Shouaffa(tt)..
Hijab: Strict Code or Fashion Barcode ..
To The Fasting Darling..
Rimitti: Ana Li Ghrasset aNakhla....
Reminiscing Tex Avery Cartoons!..
Happiest Guy in Morocco!..
The Super-cool Hanane Fadili..
Cette Affaire d'Avions ? Londres..
Watch 2M Television..
American Muslim Fun Video Blogging!..
Open War in the Middle East?..
Touche Po a Mon Zidane!..
Ronaldinho Joined Zawya....
Marock!..
Draw Live!..
Zoo Animals Need e'space..
Les ABRANIS: Prodigy of Rockabyl..
Sofiane Saidi: Cet Algerien Trip-rai Hopper..
Lemchaheb Legacy ..
Zahra Hindi, Beautiful You!..
Jajouka's Winds of Moroccana..
Google Language Translation: English to/from Arabic..
Aziz Mekouar, Ambassador of the Kingdom of Morocco to the US..
Google Shoots Microsoft.. One.. More.... Time!..
Monsieux Mehdi Ben Barka: Un Marocain Assassiné Qui Visait P..
Yale, Taliban and Weld L'Hashemi....
Near-eastern Muslim Scholars..
Three Algerians on Highway =]..
Moroccan Riverdance!..
Moroccan Candle-toe Dance..
Moroccan Qassida: Vraie Poesie!..
LA3MARNA Legacy..
Chilling Like a Mqedem in Morocco..
Alone in the Wilderness..
Are Iranians and Americans Blowing it Up?..
Are we a virus..?..
How come Morocco is silent to Dalfour, Sudan?..
Barreling Towards an Iraqi Civil War..
Pomme and Kelly ..
Intelligent Design and Evolution in not so American lands..
The Prophets animated by Steve Whitehouse..
More with Claudio Bravo..
Muslim Texans..
Hajj Stampede Gone Ugly!..
Self-portraits 001-002..
Why Faith?..
Online 7awli Souk!..
2006 !..
 
2005
Derbouka Bled Attack..
Adopted HIV kids from Romania..
Operation Mapping Raioo Love!..
They burnt themselves.. Come'on!..
My Winamp Skin: The New Beetle..
The Forbidden Zone film that electrified me!..
Cousins skyblogging..
Chilean artist in Morocco..
Moroccan Blue tops colors!..
Osama in FAMILY GUY..
Baraka Art..
Itsy Bitsy knowledge..
The most misunderstood [and growing..] world religion, Islam..
Moroccan Christians..
Polygamy in USA..
Architecturing to joy!..
This Moorish cult in America..
The Magnificient King Vulture..
Al-Rashid and the Fart..
On the subject of Evil Eye..
Anecdote on Life and 3ibada..
Anecdote on Giving in Time of Need..
T-shirt design: L'Amoureux!..
Craig Thompson art..
The Real Origin of Smileys :)..
T-shirt design: Happy Sailor!..
T-shirt design: threadless in Kufi..
T-shirt design: Magic e-lamp..
My August '05 T-shirt Designs ..
Your Living Space..
The Raioo Story: 2. in the garden..
The Raioo Story: 1. intro..
Arabic Beat and Instrument Music Wanted!..
 
2004
RA?NA RAI Legacy..
Algerian Chaabi..
Nour L'Koufi (Gharnati)..
Hidalgo in Morocco..
Le Secret d'Elissa Rhais..
Imam Shafii. Soni N'nafssa..
Feqqas (Moroccan Biscuiti)..
Casablanca Connect..
 
2003
ZEBDA! Un Groupe Genial!..
Al Moutanabbi. Idha Ghamarta..
Imam Shafii. sa'fir tajid 3iwada..
boston.food.Tangierino..
Long Distance Honey ..
The Working Wife and Husband..
The Hammam Public Bath: Do you still go there?..
Hip Hop Classic Favorites!..
Down With Love..
Lord Of The Rings..
How To create a Moroccan remix of a video clip ? ..
 
2002
Why we don't eat Porc?..
Do You Play Music?..
Hidoura: Your Moroccan Natural Carpet..
Khaddouj Slam-dunking From Marrakesh To New York..


FAVORITES
Hmida Rass Lmida à L'Avare de Molière!
Moroccan City Names
Shining ability is a gift...
Halloween SPECIAL 2007: La Mort D'une Souri!
Cheikha Rimitti: 83 Years of Life...
Why do we pray ?
short ones
ABSOLUTE RAIOO Summer 2007 Rai vol.2
Cheba Zohra & Mahadattes de Rilizane
Close Encounters of the Moroccan Kind!
Biyouna
Another attempt at writing. Will this language ever feel natural?
North Africa Journal
Moroccan Tattoos
From Los Angeles to Casablanca!
Amina Alaoui Lyrics
Dr. Hassan Al-Turabi
Vulgarity as revolution: Lemsakh we tsalguit
Les Oiseaux De Figuig!
ghir bessyas a moulay!
QURAN FLASH
Moroccan Playing Cards Game ronda v1.0
A Call From Algeria to Help Suffering Little Boy Mounib!
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