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fender (full stop)
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Western medicine meets the traditional symbolic
02:02:22 PM Monday May 29, 2006


Wanted to share with you this essay guys.

Debra Stein is a fourth-year medical student at the University of Toronto, Toronto, Ont.

Correspondence to: Debra Stein; fax 416 968-0957; debra.stein@utoronto.ca

A July morning in Casablanca. The hot buzz of a city bursting at the seams. And the sense that most of the world meets here. I'm here to learn about psychiatry in a cultural context that is new to me. For a Canadian medical student interested in the crossroads between medicine and culture, the Centre Psychiatrique Universitaire Ibn Rochd (CPU) is a fascinating place. Here, the shift from traditional to Western modes of care is illustrated in a resident's report at morning rounds. A young man had been admitted because he had become delusional and violent, threatening his mother with a kitchen knife. His family had taken him to a traditional healer, a fquih (feki), who believed him to be under the spell of a maleficent spirit, a djinn (jin). The fquih had prescribed ritual fumigation with herbs ? b'khour (pkhor) ? to expel this unwanted guest. But the patient's condition had deteriorated, and his family now saw the CPU as their last hope. The resident had started him on a course..............

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10:40 am    June 2, 2006

hudhud message
10
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"can you logically prove that he-she-It does exist"
how very true. we must either imagine something (and our imaginations are based on aspects of our physical realities) or someone has to come along and try to convince us that something exists, e.g. god, heaven, hell. we don't have physical proof but religions want us to believe in these things, and they are described in ways that we can compare to our physical world - we need something concrete to relate to.

but.. you also cannot scientifically prove that something does *not* exist. so, all the more reason to keep an open mind :)

"When you will be dead (including your brain), maybe you will not be aware that the world exist behind you... "
maybe.. and maybe not. we will never know for sure in a scientific sense b/c the dead don't come back to tell us. but in islam we believe that the dead can hear and are aware of our existence. there's a hadith by the prophet where he tells one of his companions that the dead hear and receive news of us "living" beings.. they just cannot respond to us in the way the living are accustomed to hearing, although they can meet and communicate with us in dreams when our soul leaves our body during sleep. their souls are not tied down to their physically decaying bodies anymore. but ours are..

(but now.. what is the soul..? ;)

Scientists have long known that if the chemical components of our bodies were rearranged, we would be soil. And in fact, we become part of the soil when we die and our bodies unite once again with the earth, its mother material according to islamic teachings.. earth to earth, dust to dust, ashes to ashes....

"If you believe in astrophysics , theoretically, and at any given moment, you could trace your raw material all the way back to the formation of the solar system or the universe."

I believe this is true. We are all made of star dust :)

Hudhud levitating.

·

10:04 am    June 2, 2006
arabie
9
8
Well put Antr, tbarklah 3lik ;)

Quantum Physics, M. Theory or String theory tackle all of these shocking ways of thinking. May be these theories will someday be proven. May be not. One thing we know for certain, the power of thinking. Powerful isn't it, the amount of energy associate it with a simple action of thinking?

If you haven't seen the movie called the same thing as in the Subject Text, I recommend you check it out if this stuff interests you.

to be continued...

·

5:20 am    June 2, 2006

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
8
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as in, if you believe it exists, then it does, but if something does not exist in your imagination does it exist at all?

-That is a very good question : hehehe

You know that what you see, hear etc..is the signals interpretations done by your brain.(sounds like Morpheus talking to Neo (:p
We see colors that other animals don't, they hear sounds that we don't hear, etc..
Now we know it, but before we knew that, we could not say that Ultra-sounds exist for exemple, since we had no idea about them . just like we have no idea what a Skaramoush is, simply because
we are no aware of it.
When you will be dead (including your brain), maybe you will not be aware that the world exist behind you...
If we kill all of the 6,5 billion poeple on earth, who would be left to say that the world does indeed exist anymore ? hehehe

So it all boills down to your awareness.
Now, you can laugh at this because you are alive and you assume that the world exist. :) Well how about Jen ? have you seen one ? hopelly not...can you logically prove that he-she-It does exist ? I doubt it . why not ? because, hopefully, your brain has not been exposed to any stimulus that would identify it a Jen.
When you are in a dream, you are not aware that there is a state called Awakening, just like a fish, it does not know that there is life beyond the ocean's surface.

Antr, sitting on head and crossing his legs.

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5:01 am    June 2, 2006

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
7
4
In your physical body, there are quadrillion atoms have gone through the body of every living spicie on this planet. Including 3tabou, the president of China, a kengoroo in Australia etc…
Using radio active isotope method, you replace 92% of your entire body in one year. you change the tissue of your liver every 6 month, you make a new skin every month, a new skeleton every 3 months, even your DNA which carries the memory of millions of years of evolution does change it's raw matrial each 6 weeks. Everything is recycled, including the molecules making up your brain cells .
In less than 2 years, you change your entire body down to the last atom !
So if you think you are your physical body, then you have a problem …
Yet, you are still the same person over the years, because of your consciouseness(call it soul if you want), which dictate to all of the new raw material, to follow the same design .
You consciouseness does create what is happening withing your body not the otherway around : think of something happy, your body will start releasing endorphines etc…
Think of someone who pisses you off, and your blood pressure will increase, you adrenaline will start pouring in , different chemical reactions will start taking place in etc…All of that, triggered by a though, something that is non material .
99,99 % of an atom is made of empty space, and so is your physical body. and so is the universe . Not only that, it's in that non material part where the action is taking place . That's where the information resides .
Some call it God, others call it the universtal consciouseness, Einstein calls it the field of potentialily, others the unified field or what ever …

As for the holographic universe theory, I read about it few years back in the American scientist magazine, it starts from the fact that 2 atomic particles have been separated and put thousands of miles apart, each one the particle was reacting INSTANTLY (!!) when one of them was exposed to a stimulus . That suggest that they are still sharing instant information despite the distance that separates them. Something that the modern science can not understand, since we don't know any action that is not related on time . and the communication above is instant !

Since all the particles must have been together at some point in time (if you believe in the BigBang of course) then the particles withing the universe do share the same information where ever they are located ! WWWARRGHHH…Somebody, pass me a glass of water !!!
They remain connected, and their physical separation does not make them disconnected, they are acting just a hologram (holo comes from whole) which consists of a sum of laser beam reflections (or mirror reflection) of an image, if you cut off one beam or many, the rest that are left do carry the same amount of information, image or what ever…
So the Pakistani dude, was not wrong at all…Information is shared all the time !
It seem to me that we are part of everything and everybody, so the next time you eat Kordass, and the molecule of that Kordassa become part of your arm muscles, heart muscles of kidney tissue, or what ever muscle… make one step further and try to trace back where the lambs muscles (from where the kordassa was made) came from…? Maybe from a plant which was eating the minerals of a dead insect, (or Mazir :-@, did breath in CO2 released by a truck or a factory making Shambrir . So you are partly Shambrir ! And even the Shambrir is derived from fossile oil which is nothing but the atoms that were once making the tail of a dinosaur or the nail of a Jurassic Fakroun !

As you eat, breath, drink etc…you are constantly recycling yourself with raw material and you have no idea where they came from... If you believe in astrophysics , theoretically, and at any given moment, you could trace your raw material all the way back to the formation of the solar system or the universe.
So we are all part of the whole !

Antr, Connecting people .

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12:37 pm    June 1, 2006

hudhud message
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"what we say is but sound wavelengths that travel in the ether, out to the universe, keep travelling.. just waiting for an decoder on the other side to re-play it any time"
that is incredibly fascinating.... I'd like to read this book you mentioned..

"change your thoughts and you will change your perceptions of the universe:" as in, if you believe it exists, then it does, but if something does not exist in your imagination does it exist at all?
too much felsafa for me in one day..

·

8:59 am    June 1, 2006

hudhud message
5
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"Often from a religious point of view, we are asked to believe in the unknown"
I think it's more accurate to say that from an Islamic perspective we are asked to believe that there *are* some unknowns which we may never experience directly or really comprehend in this life, maybe in the next. God has created lots of things that we don't yet fully understand, and others that we have not yet discovered, and maybe others still that we may never discover (wa yakhlouqou ma laa taalamoun). It's humbling to acknowledge our own ignorance, but it's also inspirational because it helps us keep an open mind.

The issue of the Ayn/evil eye baffles me. The shouaffat and lucky charms/khamsas/talismans are considered useless and falsehoods that I cannot as a muslim believe actually work. Some scholars consider those practices acts of shirk, and warn against them, because they lead people to trust or believe in physical, material objects that are helpless, rather than believe in God. We are supposed to put our trust in Allah and ask for his protection from "hassad" by means of duaa and reading Quranic verses. This can be very comforting for someone who believes in them (alaa bithikrillahi tattma'inou lqouloub) but not for someone who doesn't even believe in the Quran. Which makes me wonder about the placebo effect: if you believe something can help you, maybe it does help you just by virtue of it comforting and consoling your troubled thoughts and emotions.

But it still baffles me. How can one person's envy/hassad/evil eye influence what happens to another person? I have a hard time believing that when I reason it out, but at the same time, I know it's all too real. I do believe in the so-called "supernatural", that evil and good spirits do exist, divine intervention, miracles, etc. So I guess to a certain extent I'm trying to reason, and then I reach a point where I just can't fathom the depth of spiritual consciousness, and just let it be. It feels like being on a tiny boat out in the middle of a huge ocean and trying to peer down into the dark waters. There's no way I'll ever be able to see the ocean bottom from where I am...

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8:50 am    June 1, 2006
intriguing

Adnane Ben. message
4
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[some claim that the universe as a whole is nothing by a holographic mind projection .(change your thoughts and you will change your perceptions of the universe)]

I'm having hard times understanding the above if you could please elaborate or point me to some reading about holographic mind projection. It sounds quiet holy-graphic and interesting. Almost reminds me of a friend of mine who believes the universe and us included are but a dream.. just like we dream worlds and characters and plots, this entity is dreaming in much bigger proportions.

This pakistani guy wrote a book a while back the arabic translation of which is "Al-islam yata7adda". In it, he talks about a myriad of scientific claims as arguments to explains different aspects of the religion. In one chapter as he attempts to explain the point of the religion that states our acts and sayings are recorded forever and will be reviewed for judgement, he says that what we say is but sound wavelengths that travel in the ether, out to the universe, keep travelling.. just waiting for an decoder on the other side to re-play it any time. Our acts are but movements that leave hot spots in the air which can persist forever, waiting for another decoder to re-incarnate the act. But I remember, he had hard times proving the thoughts and how they're stored in the universe for future retrieval for judgement. I'll revisit the book to refresh my memory and let you know.

·

12:15 am    June 1, 2006
astute

fender (full stop) message
3
Fact is that we don't know what we don't know. Often from a religious point of view, we are asked to believe in the unknown. Some need more transparency and phisical proofs to endorse their belief, others take things for granted and leave it that way. As scientists and people of the advanced mathematical logic, it's sometimes frustrating to accept things on trust, which brings us to the next issue. We trust the holy book with all its content, but can we trust the interface acting as the practitioner ? There are plenty of charlatons just waiting to strike again...
·

4:17 pm    May 31, 2006
fascinating

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
2
Up till now, there is no science that can determine the nature consciousness or thoughts .
Some claim that they are nothing but the by products of chemical reactions .
Others claim that they are energy vibrating at high and low frequency, (positive, negative energy) some claim that the universe as a whole is nothing by a holographic mind projection .(change your thoughts and you will change your perceptions of the universe)
To me all of the above seem to be valid.

As for the Ayn, I could accept that...
If you take into the consideration that observation of the atom by the scientists at the laboratory, does make it change it's behavior . That proves that the attention of an individual does in deed have an affect the observed object (the atom in this case). so why shouldn't the attention affect a human being ? he is just a package of atoms after all .
Such affect caused by attention could explain the nature of prayer, Ayn, self healing or healing others, and even Sihr !
There is probably a field or Data base of the infinite possibilities, If you are tuned well enough, your thoughts, prayers or what ever... could sort out the desired combinations and materialize what ever you wish for in the physical word.

Islam urges the Muslims to believe in different dimensions and beings ... I can not disprove the claim that some of those beings, located somewhere could sometimes interact with poeple's thoughts in some form...the Quran talks about the influence of Satan, he could be one of them...(when ever I think of something evil or negative, I say "Back off, Ibliss!! ;-)
Having said that, I don't discredit the efforts done by the psychologists to understand how our mind works .
All I know is that there is more to it that what an eye can perceive...
Ed Mitchell (one of the astronauts who walked on the moon) created a fundation making research about quantum biology and consciousenes. pretty spokky stuff ...
http://www.edmitchellapollo14.com/

I know that I haven't said enough, but I hope added something to the conversation ...


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8:46 am    May 30, 2006

Adnane Ben. message
1
This is a very informative overview of the building blocks of Moroccan sacred perspectives of mental illness. It's very hard for me to believe that what Fqihs and Shouaffatt say is true. However, I do believe that they can play a role in calming the patient through spiritual conversations.. the type of talk you'd get hanging around a bunch of Sufis, or a bunch of people who care about you.
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fender (full stop)'s notes (5)
 
2011
21 January 1793..
 
2006
Zzzzzen. Profile don't match, object exterminated..
someone who say things how they are..
Western medicine meets the traditional symbolic..
chnou 3endek nta..


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