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MOROCCO
Adnane Ben.
Boston USA
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L'etiquette Du Journalisme Au Maroc
12:00:00 AM Saturday Jun 14, 2003



Article source: reporters sans frontieres



"Ali Lmrabet a ?t? hospitalis?, ce lundi 26 mai dans l'apr?s-midi. Il est actuellement sous perfusion dans les locaux de l'h?pital Avicenne de Rabat. Le journaliste a entam? une gr?ve de la faim le 6 mai dernier. Selon son m?decin, Ali Lmrabet est " tr?s affaibli ". Et de pr?ciser : " Il ne peut plus boire depuis hier. Il vomit tout. Il a le plus grand mal ? articuler. Il ne peut plus se d?placer. "
" Nous sommes terriblement inquiets. Il ne peut ?tre question de ramener Ali Lmrabet en prison. Il doit ?tre durablement hospitalis? et soign? dans les meilleures conditions ", a d?clar? Robert M?nard, secr?taire g?n?ral de Reporters sans fronti?res. " Le pouvoir marocain est responsable de la sant? du journaliste. Il porterait une lourde responsabilit? au cas o? il arriverait malheur ? ce dernier. Le Roi ne peut pas rester indiff?rent ? ce qui arrive ? Ali Lmrabet. Aujourd'hui, au-del? de la libert? de la presse, il s'agit de la vie d'un homme. ", a-t-il ajout?.
Ali Lmrabet, patron de deux publications satiriques - Demain magazine, un hebdomadaire en fran?ais et Douman, sa version en arabe - et correspondant de Reporters sans fronti?res, est derri?re les barreaux depuis le 21 mai dernier. Accus? " d'outrage ? la personne du Roi ", " d'atteinte au r?gime monarchique " et " ? l'int?grit? territoriale ", il a ?t? condamn? ? quatre ans de prison ferme, ? l'interdiction de ses deux publications et ? 20 000 dirhams d'amende (environ 2 000 euros).
Ali Lmrabet est incarc?r?, depuis le 21 mai, ? la prison de Sal? (proche de Rabat) o? il partage une cellule avec deux d?tenus de droit commun.
Le 6 mai, Ali Lmrabet a entam? une gr?ve de la faim pour, "faire valoir [ses] droits", "faire cesser les intimidations r?p?t?es contre [son] imprimeur et d'autres dispos?s ? imprimer [ses] journaux", et demander le respect de sa libert? de circulation.

... read more ?

Raioosters, ca veut dire quoi pour vous cette histoire d'emprisonnement de ce journaliste Ali Lmrabet ? Est ce qu' Ali est une victime a votre avis ? ou bien est ce que l'etat est la victime d'Ali ? Si vous etes un journaliste au Maroc, comment cet evenement affectera votre comportement et vos opinions dans la presse Marocaine ?

Ca veut dire quoi la profession du journalisme en premier lieu ? est ce que cette definition change au Maroc ?

Y-a t-il une etiquette a suivre dans cette profession au Maroc ? Y-a t-il une convention sociale ? authoritaire ?

Une autre question: Quelle sont les priorites que le journalisme au Maroc doit aborder ?

The content of this page —graphics, text and other elements—is © Copyright 2007 prospective author, and Raioo, Inc., only when stated otherwise, and may not be reprinted or retransmitted in whole or in part without the expressed written consent of the publisher.



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10:20 pm    February 12, 2006
shantee
120
Voici ces fameuses caricatures et bien plus encore ici :
www.bkkchat.info
·

9:58 am    September 29, 2003
Fati
119
HI,
i would like to suggest a great website for the controversial morrocan magazine Telquel.
www.telquel-online.com. There is more about this in Numero 79. You can browse through the archives.
check it out!
Peace
·

7:56 am    July 3, 2003
makhokhi
118
salam d'abord
ahiawin malkom ach wa9ek??? yak malmalik dar idrab 3an ita3am
·

10:48 pm    June 23, 2003
alhakk
117
Hi my friends,

you can go to to the "site" :http://membres.lycos.fr/demainmag/solidarite.htm

·

11:16 pm    June 19, 2003
alhakk
116
J'AI VOUS AI SOUMIS MON MESSAGE ET JE N'AI PAS PU LE VOIR PAR LA SUITE.
? LA PROCHAINE MES CH?RS(ES)
COMPATRIOTES.
·

10:55 pm    June 19, 2003
alhakk
115
113
pour toi,
j'ai beau cherch?, j'?tais m?me s?r de trouver les caricatures du journal demain de notre brave journaliste ALI LAMRABET: mais auparavant j'ai pu voir les caricatures 3 ou 4 semaines auparavant, ?a n'a pas march? cette fois mais ?a marchera une autre fois.
la 1 ?re fois que j'ai vu cette caricature c'?tais ds. le site elaph.com , encore ds site de soutien ? ali lambrabet r?fer? par yahoo et encore ? voir le site de telque-online.
j'ai beau essay? pour toi et pr. les autres de pouvoir voir ces caricatures, mais je suis s?r et certain que bien d'autres et m?me moi peuvent vous ref?rer aux sites montrant les caricatures d'ALI LAMRABET.

VIVE LA BRAVOURE, ON EST BIEN DANS LE 21 SI?CLE: ANN?E 2003 (RELATIVIT? MAROC PAR RAPPORT AUX PAYS D?MOCRATIQUES-MODERNES).
MERCI POUR LES CONCEPTEURS DE CE SITE.

·

4:24 am    June 19, 2003
KingShanboR
114
Il est vrai que le maroc n'a pas encore atteint le niveau de liberte' d'expression dont juissent les pays occidentaux .
Mais en comparaison avec n'importe quel pays Arab. le Maroc est en premiere position
as far as the freedom of speech is concerned...
the arab journalist went as far as
claming that the sun rises from Al maghrib (morocco).
"Ashamsso tashro9o mina Lmaghrib "...
We need more of that sun though....


·

4:01 am    June 19, 2003
ghbert
113
les amies ,si qcq peux nous montrer caricature ou bein cqc de ali lmrabet
·

3:10 am    June 19, 2003
PrinceCharmant
112
I would like to add that in Morocco we do have a democratie, the problem that we have is to be patient "ASSABRE".
I notice that on daily basis.

Je voudrais just ajouter qu'au Maroc on a une democratie, le problem qu'on a c'est que les gens ne se patiente pas.
c'est ce que je vois chaque jour!

·

11:45 pm    June 18, 2003
Ayur
111
Salam
tout d'abord, on est le seul pays a avoir "lem9eddem", et on a une DST gouvern? par des gens sans piti?, pr?t ? faire n'importe quoi pour r?aliser ce qu'ils veulent, ils sont des militaires, et on connait tous que la majorit? des militaires n'ont pas une grande base culturelle!!!
Notre syst?me a des inconv?nients et des avantages, les inconv?nients comme l'humiliation des droits de l'homme, la lib?rt? de l'expression ...etc
cot? positif, c'est qu'on est un peuple qui ne m?rite pas encore la lib?rt?, car tout simplement la libert? d'arrache avec le sang et non pas avec les paroles!!! tous les grands pays ont eu leurs d?mocratie de cette mani?re ( France=r?volution de 18e si?cle, USA=North-south wars, Espagne=Franco,Italie=Mossulini...etc) alors nous, on a rien fait et on r?clame la d?mocratie. la majorit? des marocains sont ignorants, ils savent meme pas c koi la lib?rt?!!! une grande partie de ce peuple sont des criminels ( voir les statistiques sur les prisonniers au Maroc publi? le mois dernier ) alors ? qui on va donner cette d?mocratie? l7amdou lillah, malgr? tous ?a, on est en bonne situation par rapport aux autres pays arabe!!! allez ? l'egypte par exemple et vous allez etre choqu?s par les prix de la nouriture par rapport au salaire moyen des gens, kayderbou temmak gha fe lfoule modammiss msakene!
l7amdou lillah en tout cas
·

8:12 pm    June 18, 2003
newraiooer
110
Another reminder to sign the petition to support the free speech
plz sign.
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?lmrabet1.
thank you
·

8:11 pm    June 18, 2003
Bahja
109
Afinkom a wlad lablad?
·

8:08 pm    June 18, 2003
Bahja
108
Nzidak Arabi.. pour t expliquer pourquoi il y a un peu plus defreedom au maroc daba qu avant. A l epoque de Hassan 2, more than 70 % of people were illeterate, makaryinche annass, they do not know that freedom exist, they tought it is a just icha3a, alors que maintenant avec M6 le pourcentage a demenue de facon significative (enviro 45% daba dyal al ommiya). encore, a l epoque de Hassan 2 il y avait pas bcq de relations avec l'Europe et le reste de monde, daba autre chose, tu veux signer un contrat avec l europe , et bien l'europe va t imposer des choses, comme le systeme juridique, les droits de l'homme et zid ou zid, alors ce n est pas au hazard que il y a un peu plus de freedom au Maroc, mais je te jure c est pas parce que les gens du pouvoir au maroc want it, it is just because they are enforced. Allah jjib alli yafhamna o maya3tinache
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7:40 pm    June 18, 2003
Bahja
107
Arabi, you seem to be like very happy with the little freedom you have in Morocco. A sa7bi we desrve better than that, amuch much better, it is your right to live free, to speak and say whatever you want, why you make it look like the King M6 is giving something from his pocket, it is your right to be free, and it is your duty to fight to get that right. change never comes by itself, it needs people like Ali and others to come. Ya jammal haz jmalak 3lina rah 7na wlad nass o f al 3azz trabbina (nass ghiwane)
·

7:32 pm    June 18, 2003
Arabi^7ta^Nmout
106
101
Adnane, you must finish the statement to report all the truth and not just half of it. Please explain what is incorrect about the statement I made considering that everyone agrees that M6 era of ruling is "much" freer than Hassan II and even any prior era. Also, if you notice I did indulge the fact that we still have to indure a struggle to reach a freeR Morocco.
Nevertheless, I do grant you that Lmrabet sure doesn't share my opinion, I neither expect him to nor blame him.

Here is the complete quote to reaffirm the statement.

"I say today's Morocco is much freer than any Morocco at any era and time any one might have witnessed. Let?s embrace this change first and use it as a protecting shield in hells of struggle into better, more democratic, and freer Morocco. "

Peace N Love

·

7:26 pm    June 18, 2003
Bahja
105
Cuz He who fight and run away, live to fight another day... the heathen
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7:23 pm    June 18, 2003
Bahja
104
Ali is a hero, and it is very clear to everyone. None could dare to do what he did. and yes freedom does not come to your door, you need to get it by sacrifice... Ali is the sacrifice for freedom of speech in Morocco. what bothers me more is that none is talking about in Morocco? where is the political parties, they are all afraid? tay la7sso al kappa. does anyone know any update of the health situation of Ali as of today?
·

7:20 pm    June 18, 2003
moulzarri3a
103
Peace Maker wrote: [...Go and say to your city mayor [ L3amel ] that you didn't really appreciate him being late to sign people's critical documents...He won't tell you sorry, but he will ring the bell and you will be thrown in jail at least for one night...]
Ironically, i know someone who will certainly answer your question but i don't know if he is willing to share his personnal experiance!!
·

7:08 pm    June 18, 2003
Peace_Maker
102
It kills me when I hear clueless people talking about the freedom in Morocco. I keep asking myself whether these guys are really Moroccans or not. I tell this, u wanna try it in Morocco, well I'll tell you try something for me and the sky is the limit; we should see whatever is gonna happen to you...OK? Go and say to your city mayor [ L3amel ] that you didn't really appreciate him being late to sign people's critical documents...He won't tell you sorry, but he will ring the bell and you will be thrown in jail at least for one night...So, before some of us start opening their mouths and talk about freedom in Morocco, they should really think about the hidden curses stomping on Moroccans' lives and rights.

The diversity of opinions is what makes progress, torturing people is the biggest sin and shame that will abort it.

·

6:06 pm    June 18, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
101
99
[ I say today's Morocco is much freer than any Morocco at any era and time any one might have witnessed. ] --- hell it's not! not from where Ali Lmrabet is standing now!!!
·

5:56 pm    June 18, 2003
Arabi^7ta^Nmout
100
I think that Ali Lmrabet could indeed be a good guy with noble intentions, unfortunately I don't know him. My opinion depends on what Lmrabet projects to me and his readers being strangers in relation to him. I see caricatures, critics to a mocking degree about the Monarchy, and let's not kid ourselves, in times when no one needed any of it. Ironically (I say ?ironically? because I believe that the US is NOT a democratic country but that?s a different subject) even in the US after Sept 11th no journalist, talk-show host dared mocking Bush, the leader. All of the state intellectuals then thought that it was time to show respect to the leader who is taking a burden upon his shoulders.
(cont')
·

5:55 pm    June 18, 2003
Arabi^7ta^Nmout
99
(cont')
Now across the ocean, I don't think that Lmrabet, a journalist, intellectual made a wise, the least to say, decision in his choice of the subject during the times when people are concerned about more appropriate and troubling matters. Furthermore, I think of Lmrabet as NO hero, instead, as a journalist, a man who made a mistake at the wrong time and place. To be a hero for making a mistake is quite a bit over exaggerated. Now, to whom may misinterpret my statement, I confirm that I am also against incarcerating any person, including Lmrabet, for merely something said. I think that it is plain wrong. Consequently I think that our king is a good king and I am proud of his representation of the Moroccan youth. I personally think this is a behind-the-scene battle that turned out ugly.
Lastly, we all have to be reasonable and analytic in our judgements when seeking fairness to every one. I say today's Morocco is much freer than any Morocco at any era and time any one might have witnessed. Let?s embrace this change first and use it as a protecting shield in hells of struggle into better, more democratic, and freer Morocco.

Peace N Love
NB: This is my opinion, and if you disagree plz do not call me "weld zna" and claim to have a higher degree than lBAC :)

·

4:36 pm    June 18, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
98
94
[ He chose an undiplomatic path and he is getting an undiplomatic response.. ] also how about, he chose to be rational, but Morocco is not yet ready for rationality. If one wants to be rational in Morocco - like a European in Europe or an American in America - it will not work because there seems to be 3 powers will surround you: culture, religion and law. The religion can only redress you, the culture will try and intimidate you, the law will marginalize you. Morocco is not ready for rational minds.
·

4:18 pm    June 18, 2003
Bahja
97
For people who are wondering why Ali did not talk in the time of hassan2, everything has its begining, that's not a question to be asked. why we did not have Internet in 1970! that's not a qiuestion. More than That I strongly believe that Ali is a good guy and his action going to bring more freedom to Morocco, may be all the freedom we need. There is a strong pressure from europe now on M6 and his governmnet, if they really wanna be a working with the EU they will have to let Ali free. Ali is a good day and I wish i was in his place now, he is a hero.
·

3:09 pm    June 18, 2003
lalla_tamo
96
Can anybod here what ali marabet h done wrong ???
·

1:59 pm    June 18, 2003
mourad
95
on ne peut pas "abuser d'une libert?". la libert? d'expression se donne enti?re. c'est vrai qu'apr?s Hassan II le nouveau roi a voulu apporter des changements d?mocratiques en laissant les gens parler "un peu plus qu'avant". mais franchement tout le monde en a marre des ces limites absurdes et insens?.
la mani?re de Lmrabet de provoquer l'opinion publique est peut etre choquante mais elle a des r?sultat.
une derni?re chose, avant dans le r?gne de hassane II il y avait beaucoup d'opposants, de journalistes et de journaux qui se sont fait censur?s s?v?rement. mais on n'entendait pas parl? d'eux...
·

1:35 pm    June 18, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
94
Ok. I understand now. He chose an undiplomatic path and he is getting an undiplomatic response. The response, however, manifests itself, in my opinion, in several abuses of interpretation of the law on the part of the prosecution. In order to make an example out of him, they went to most obscure lengths in order to slap 3 most capital crimes on him; crimes that require a very imaginative mind to trace back to his articles. They face a limited number of options: he could die and his name will sure be forbidden from public discourse. They could exile him and claim that they have given him back his right to move freely outside the territory. Or they could be diplomatically forced to free him, which would require changing some laws (an unlikely scenario given the international political atmosphere.)

In any event, this is not all too dissimilar to situation in the US where people are put through extreme legal and social stress simply for having the appearance of being a threat to this country. Secret courts here don't need substance before they allow arrest and possibly indictment.

·

1:30 pm    June 18, 2003
moulzarri3a
93
90
Fender: i also said "...i understand that he has the right to say what he wants in the limits of the law.."
however i will tell you what i meant.
nobody can deny that there is a big difference between king Mohammed6 and late king Hassan2 (llah yrehmou). With M6 we have much more freedom than what we had with Hassan2. however, we still need some more freedom. Ali Lemrabet's actions jeopardize the possibility of getting the remaining percentage freedom that we lack. Therfore he abused of the freedom offered to him.
·

1:26 pm    June 18, 2003
piposh
92
I totally agree whith moulz"riaa.
I have never ever heard whith ali mrabet in hassan II's life!!! where was he? I'm not (nostalgique aux ann?es de plomb) but this man abused whith his power (press) .
·

1:19 pm    June 18, 2003
piposh
91
hi all,
I beleive that's more complicated that seems to be. A simple express-right!!!! Mr Ali has right to criticise the system, but I think that he has not take into account something of fundamental : he's living in a country which containn more than 70% of ignorants. It's a shame. I beleive that everyone of us have to say express himself, say what he wants but we should to be responsible. YES THE RESPONSABILITY is the sixtyfour thousand dollar word!! ALI was not.
·

1:05 pm    June 18, 2003

fender (full stop) message
90
Basri, Jettou or Sidi Hrazem, One should be free to say what he has in his mind no matter what the subject is. The same democracy allow the other party to deffend it self via the same freedom of speech.
: Can i ask you what do you exactly mean when you say .. i quote "he obvioulsy abused of the little freedom that he was offered, why didn't he say so when Basri was interior minister? " ? In my point of view there is only one freedom which includes a number of rights we have, and freedom of speech is defenetly one of them. Are you actually deniying this freedom. ?
·

12:49 pm    June 18, 2003
moulzarri3a
89
Amine:
i read all the articles of Ali Lemrabet and i saw all his caricatures and i understand that he has the right to say what he wants in the limits of the law. However, i think that Ali Lemrabet is "majeur et vaccine" and new that his articles will bring him only trouble so he has to assume the consequences. I don't agree with him when he wanted to change the laws by generating a crisis that will hurt all Moroccans, not only him. If he wanted change, he should've called for it (just like same political parties did back in the last elections) not act on defiance of the system because no matter how bad the rules are he will be then breaking them. If you read Ali's articles, and i'm talkign about his old old articles, you will find that they are full of exessive criticism to Morocco, even on the sahara issue. If i don't sympathize with him it's bcause he obvioulsy abused of the little freedom that he was offered, why didn't he say so when Basri was interior minister? it's good to call for your rights of freedom of speech but it is never good to take them like that, by force it will only generate more and more repression especially in the Morocco of post May 16th. Once again, i hope you will not missunderstand what i wrote.

Finally, something for ElCuervo; this is not your place buddy!!

·

12:18 pm    June 18, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
88
Amine, I agree, I just saw the message a couple of minutes ago I'm at work I don't read the discussion oftentimes during the day - only during lunch time). I have been trying to access the admin area in vain so I can censor el-cuervo message (there's a firewall here) I can only do that later on from a different PC,

So apologies if you guys have to read elcuervo foul message for the next 4 hours. It'll be censored then.

Cuervo, you're the first one who dared to say the first bad word in this discussion and offend moulzarri3a by calling him son of adultry. That is not acceptable. People before you did the same in one of the early discussions in raioo and after the 1st warning, they repeated and were then banned from writing. You have first warning. If you continue, you will only be able to read the discussion, until you express your apologies to moulzarri3a.

·

12:17 pm    June 18, 2003
El-CuErVo
87
amine im sorry bro ! ana ma 3andiich m3a ta9aafa we la politique ! ana j aime pas les tetes vides li 3iinhom gha fe lhadra lkhaawya ! li ma3andhom maydaaar ! nnaass kayhadrou fe mawdou3 we waa7ed kaykhasser fel hadra ! tu sais pour quoi kaykhasser fel hadra ? 7it ma3andou maygoul ! haad chi makay9derch ifahmou messkine ! 7iit howa niveau bac ! kayfehmou be 3a9lou dial lbac ! ki 7ssaab lih haad chi ki f waaalo ! ma faahemch haad chi rah pays we politique ! en tout cas sorry une autre fois !
·

11:48 am    June 18, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
86
Adnane,
Not censoring articles is one thing. Letting insults like the ones El-Cuervo posted to Moulzeri3a infiltrate the discussion is not characteristic of responsible moderating.
Moulzeri3a has trhe right to say all he wants. If El-Cuervo has issues with that, present your opinion as respectably as Moulzeri3a has throughout this discussion.
Sorry, posts like that make the discussion sink below its deserved level.
·

11:33 am    June 18, 2003 warning. obscene language.
El-CuErVo
85
moul zarrii3a !!! kat3ref l7out mniine kay boul ??? koune kenti 7daaya ya weld zna koune werriitou lik mniine kayboul a weld ch3aybiya lbowaala !!! raassek fiih cha3riya a moro ma3ammer cha3bek tziid lgoddaaam ghateb9a cha3bek diima teghssel fe tbaassel fe les restaurants a weld 3li ! cha3bek nta tzedti baach teb9a lte7t ! b9a lte7t !
·

10:32 am    June 18, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
84
81
Tu parles des pertes de coutumes... peut tu preciser lesquelles car il y en a qui rempli un ocean. Tu parles de perte de religion.. comment l'on perd sa religion en pensant differemement d'un systeme qui ne suit une des fondations de la religion: critiquer le khalif, le roi,le president, la coterie, les decisions..etc. Un des Khoulafae Rashidon (radia llaho 3anhom) elu, il a fait un discours dans lequel il a precise qu'il fera de son mieux de suivre les principes du Koran et de la Sunnah dans le status quo, et qu'il compte sur eux pour le corriger, pour le critiquer.

What's so unreligious about pointing out the weak points of the system of Morocco? and in this case, handling journalism.

"Once you permit those who are convinced of their own superior rightness
to censor and silence and suppress those who hold contrary opinions,
just at that moment the citadel has been surrendered. For the American
citadel is a man. Not man in general. Not man in the abstract. Not the
majority of men. But man. That man. His worth. His uniqueness."
? 1951 commencement address at Wellesley College, quoted in "Parting
Shots: A Century of Commencement Speeches" Saturday Review, 12 May 79

I know that Archibald quote talks on the definition of American Man in the
United States Constitution and the declaration of
independence; and as I realize that, I feel sad Moroccan Man did
not even deserve a definition, in the Constitution of Morocco, except for the
King. The king is worthy of excellence no doubt. Yet wouldn't Moroccans be better off if they felt they are worthy of the same excellence? the same rights to express their dissent and restlessness in all matters wether to condemn terrosists or condemn governors or the system?

·

10:10 am    June 18, 2003
mourad
83
je l'ai d?j? dis avant et je le redis: si on regarde les articles et caricatures en question, aucune n'attaque le roi personnellement. il n'y a pas de dessin du roi ou de manque de respect au roi. IL CRITIQUE LE SYSTEME et tout ce qui est autours du roi. franchement, se moquer des gens qui saluent un train passant ou de ceux qui lui baisent la main ne touche pas ? la personne meme du roi.
·

10:08 am    June 18, 2003
newraiooer
82
Thank you so much, amine, for the link, it was very interesting.
did you read thami afailal's article?
I did like this part most:
Hassan II a d?truit la classe politique marocaine. Il a fait de la presse un porte-parole de son r?gime. L'actuel r?gime veut peut-?tre faire pareil. Mais, il n'en est pas question avec nous. Le pouvoir a ses puissants groupes de presse, ses journaux financ?s ? coups de millions de dirhams, ses deux cha?nes de t?l?vision, ses radios, nationales et internationale (M?di1).
Nous estimons qu'il n'a pas besoin de deux journaux satiriques pour faire vendre sa ?marchandise?.
Notre combat pour la libert? d'expression, pour notre
survie, va ?tre dur. Nous affrontons un Etat.
Mais, nous nous d?fendrons. Puisque c'est tout ce qui
nous reste.
Thami Afailal.
beaucoup de vrai dans son article. Good luck to all of them.
·

9:57 am    June 18, 2003
sunrise
81
C est vrai qu'il y a bcp de gens qu on doit mettre en prison avant lui.Mais son cas touche a la royaut?.
je ne suis pas alaoui , mais le respect du roi ,et non la crainte,est necessaire et dieu le sait ,ca ne peut etre une corv?e plus que d autres choses que d etre roi.
Notre pays est cher ainsi que ces citoyens ;alors je pense que 3 ans et un peu trop .jepense que notre fiert? marocaine vient plus de ce qu ils ont fait pour nous .Car la majorit? a l etranger ne font que critiquer loin du bercail et nous comparent a l occident = perte de nos coutumes et notre RELIGION.
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9:22 am    June 18, 2003
mourad
80
je n'ai pas peur et je l'ai sign?e la p?tition.
vous devriez en faire autant.
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9:21 am    June 18, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
79
I have the answer that will give moulseria his zeri3a.
So Moulzeri3a, here it comes: check this link: http://membres.lycos.fr/demainmag/solidarite.htm

It has everything you might be looking for and some. So give Adnane a break and start using the articles and caricature that you demanded so passionately.

FYI, I posted the link earlier, but perhaps it was ignored in the midst of picking on the website.

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9:15 am    June 18, 2003
newraiooer
78
77
Moulzari3a , because we moroccans we are too scared,even being outside lblad, to go sign the petition. notice that they are few moroccans that signed it.
What a pity!!!
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9:08 am    June 18, 2003
moulzarri3a
77
isn't it weird that in the petition that you are asking us to sign most of the person who signed are from spain and some of them say they are from "western sahar"?!!!!?!?!?!?!
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9:08 am    June 18, 2003
mourad
76
74
moulzaria ou moul l7ames :

je ne vois pas pourquoi tu t'attaque ? Adnane. t'es plein de mauvaise fois. tu ne trouve pas d'autre arguments pour te justifier ? part ?a! c'est path?tique!
le fait d?j? de mettre ce sujet de discussion est courageux de la part de Adnane, je le remercie beaucoup pour ma part.
au lieu de s'attaquer ? celui qui t'as donner un moyen de parler essaie de r?fl?chir et discuter avec les autres.

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9:03 am    June 18, 2003
newraiooer
75
Signez la petition SVP:
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?lmrabet1.
Support the free speech, thanks
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8:56 am    June 18, 2003
moulzarri3a
74
73
adnane, you know exactly what i mean don't be trying to get around the main point. if you believe that Ali did the right thing then support him and post his artifacts in raioo and let's see how much of a free thinker you are and how much you are devoted to defend the freedom of speech in Morocco...
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8:50 am    June 18, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
73
68
moulzarri3a, I don't understand what you are looking for honestly? you ask for caricatures and articles, I said there is a link to some of them in the preface of this discussion, otherwise I don't have the articles you are talking about, and I am not a publisher of Ali. what is your motivation? You want to see the caricatures and articles posted verbatim in raioo so then you can make a judgement? what difference does it make moulzarri3a, you have already tried Ali on top of the Moroccan court. And to show your cinycism, you think I am afraid to post Ali's artifacts. If I were afraid moulzarri3a, I wouldn't have started this discussion in the first place and gave you the opportunity to read what othes have to say and for you to talk. I feel disappointed. Anyways, go on and research your case yourself, come back show us the links you find, which we don't have, so we can all learn something new other than you putting Ali on trial again every time you post a message.
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8:14 am    June 18, 2003
mourad
72
70
oisienne:
pou moi la classe moyenne rentre dans la classe "ais?e.
les suceurs de sang c'est ceux qui dirigent.
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8:10 am    June 18, 2003
Bahja
71
59
Should we all call l'amassadeur du roi ici au etats unis? I think it's a good idea, just to let them now that we are watching! ANYONE HAS HIS PERSONNEL PHONE NUMBER?
cheers.
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8:09 am    June 18, 2003
oasienne
70
67
Alors ca yest mourad! on va rentrer dans la lofgique ? la bush!!!!!
D'un cot? les marocains pauvres et gentils , de l'autre les riches suceurs de sang.
PErsonnellement je n'appartiens ? aucune de ces cat?gories mais ? la classe MOYENNE du maroc, celle qui a boss? pour avoir une vie d?cente sans plus, sans voler ni magouiller.
Alors arr^?ter de tout mettre en blanc et noir pleeeeeeeeeeassssssse.
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8:07 am    June 18, 2003
oasienne
69
65
Cher oops Faut lire entre les lignes bon sang!!!!!!!!
Je n'ai jamais dit que le mauvais gout ?tait condamnable j'ai seulement dit que ces caricatures n'?taient pas tr?s fines.Bon en m?me temps ces journaux ?taient plutot assez populaires donc ne pas comparer l'incomparable!
Ce n'est pas pour cela qu'il faut condamner les gens pour mauvais gout enfin!

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8:05 am    June 18, 2003
moulzarri3a
68
61
adnane, you know that what you said is just crap. everybody here is discussing Lamrabet case so we have to put the evidence so that we can give an accurate judgement. if you are to talk the talk, you have to walk the walk otherwise there is no good into pushing others forward and stay behind in the clear.
don't be a chicken and post those articles and charicatures.....
cordialement
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8:05 am    June 18, 2003
mourad
67
je suis triste, extrement triste. je vois un journaliste qui essaie courageusement de s'exprimer et dire la v?rit? sur un r?gime corrompu qui suce le sang des marocains depuis des d?c?nies. je vois ici des gens qui se cachent derri?re leurs privil?ges de personnes "ais?es" et ne regardent pas les millions de gens qui souffrent de fin ou ceux qui meurent de col?ra, ou ceux qui vivent dans des "boites de sardine" comme ? sidi moumen. je vois des journalistes et des gens plus au moins concern?s qui ne disent rien, peut etre par peur ou par paresse je ne sais pas.
les uns d?fondent une lois plus qu'absurde, les autres essaient de justifier et l?gitimiser ce que fait leur tr?s cher mekhzen. et d'autres n'en en rien a foutre de l'avenir de leur pays.
les marocains sont soit des ?goistes, soit des mazochistes qui aiment se faire b..s..
on devrait normalement nous qui avons cette libert? d'expression ? l'etranger sortir et manifester devant les consulats pour lib?rer un homme innocent mais NON. nous restons ici ? discuter s'il a enfrein une lois ou pas, si ses contributions son constructifs ou pas bla bla bla...

j'ai honte d'etre marocain

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7:27 am    June 18, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
66
Try this link. Don't swing your bat blindfolded.

http://membres.lycos.fr/demainmag/solidarite.htm

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7:13 am    June 18, 2003
oupss
65
62
oasienne : Mais tu parles du '' mauvais gout'' des caricatures!!!! mais ca c'est ton opinion !!!! et depuis quand le ''gout'' comme tu dis est devenu une valeur universelle qu'on peut condamner par une sentence de 3 ans de prison ferme !!!!
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3:20 am    June 18, 2003
M`hand
64
Ali Lmrabet est entre dans l`histoire du maroc moderne par ses grandes portes. La prison a la facon Lmrabet est une gloire. Les grands hommes qui ont change le sort de l`humanite ont tous passe par la prison : Mandella, Ghandi, Lauther king, Lumumba... Le combat pour la liberte est un exercice perilleux et epineux. La liberte ne se donne pas, elle s`arrache. N`attendez jamais qu`on vous donne votre liberte, si vous y tenez, arrachez la. La liberte a un prix, elle coute tres cher, certains payent de leur vie, d`autres de leurs annees de jeunesse passees en taule, les uns abandonnent leur lutte pour des fauteuils confortables, les autres preferent s`exiler pour mieux mener leur combat... La liberte de penser est une cause qui ne meurt jamais. On peut tuer les personnes mais on est incapables de tuer les idees. "Les idees ont des ailes et nul ne peut les empecher de voler " comme se plaisait a repeter le celebre cineaste Egyptien Youssef Chahine.
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12:21 am    June 18, 2003
oasienne
63
A good summary of the story:

http://www.liberation.com/page.php?Article=118523

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12:03 am    June 18, 2003
oasienne
62
Dans cette histoire les deux sont partis sont RIDICULES et LAMENTABLES:
1- la sentence est trop lourde, 3 anbs pour une carricature(ok l?se majest? mais c'est un dessin c'est tout) c'est d?bil? ca ternit notre image et ca nous fait r?gresser d'au moins 20 ans en arri?re.
2- les caricatures en question( il faut les voir avant de faire des jugements ? l'emporte pi?ces sur la libert? de la presse etcc parce que bon m?me aux USA on a bien vu la MANIPULATION et laCENSURE dans les m?dias), elles sont d'"un gout douteux et n'apportent rien ? la critique constructive du syst?me politique.C'?tait plus du mauvais gout qu'une r?elle provocation.Mais bon une grosse amende et un sentence avec sursis aurait suffit, tandis que l? ca devient grotesque...
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6:47 pm    June 17, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
61
59
moulzarri3a, the goal of this discussion is to discuss the etiquette of journalism in Morocco in general. I mentioned Ali case because it provides a stimulus. The discussion does not focus entirely on his artifacts. Those are for you to research, and read on your own time. If you have links to his works, include them in your messages. If you read the preface of this discussion you will notice that I provide a link to a reporters sans frontiere page which had some illustrations, and an extract of some texts published in Ali's magazines.
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5:24 pm    June 17, 2003
MACLAREN
60

again no english topix which is pissin me off :(:(:( aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrghh raioo ceo's do somethin about it :):):) that aint fair maan .... tha past 5 topix were in french atleast someone translate a summary about what it is ....
newayz back to tha topic...

yamaa fil seghn mazaleeem ...

il seghn lal regalaaa ..... :):)

even tupac was in jail :):):)
nice pic :):) look at his bold head hehehhhehhehe :):):) and look at that bergag at the back of the gate hehehe damn ....

Jah Bless.

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3:39 pm    June 17, 2003
moulzarri3a
59
adnan, i was just woundering why you didn't post charicatures in raioo's front page? and why didn't you post his articles?
just woundering....
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2:02 pm    June 17, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
58
57
Agree to that. Here is the constitution of Morocco as a reference by the way. It refers a lot to law - Moroccan are guaranteed freedom of expression [..] in the limits of law. So go figure what the law says about the press. I don't know it personnaly and it'll be something interesting to research. But seriousely, like mourad mentioned in one of his early message, Ali critiques the system, not the monarch in person. Ali critiques the budget of Morocco and how it is put to use, or to misuse, ouzid ouzid.. subjects that most Moroccans talk about among each other and secretly.. how come all of a sudden people turn against Ali like that ?

Morocco has developed a tradition that takes over the founding values of our religion: freedom to critique the ruler and the system.

I wish him and his familly well though in this suffering he has put his health into. This is a black hole in the ongoing story of a country called Morocco. Ali could be free again 3 years from now, or next year during the Trone holiday, King's birthday, Ramadan or Eid Ad7a. But he might be jailed again. And one day, a future King might offer him pardon and name him Director of a "Comic Strip", in a gesture to improve public relations. Is that the "little" freedom you are so content with? do you want that other proverb that says: Jawwwe3 lkelb, ytab3ek?

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10:58 am    June 17, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
57
Come off it guys. You speak as though you have reviewed the case and read the prosecution's case against him and the arguments of his lawyers. The fact that there are laws that punish crimes is not the immediate issue. The issue is what constitutes a crime. It is only fair that people search the internet for his articles and famed caricatures and try to find instances where the three crimes brought against him can be reasonably detected. If you find yourself convinced that through his writings he committed the crimes of which he was accused, then bring it to the fore. If not, then come forward and speak out. Attach caricatures or copy paragraphs to show you stand behind your view. This way, the discussion about a dying man's fate becomes more responsible and respectable.

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10:15 am    June 17, 2003
Arabi^7ta^Nmout
56
hehe! It is just frustrating to see how people like PeaceMaker and some others lack the ability to read properly, carefully, therefore correctly. Abruptly PeaceMake took the liberty to call me and others names that he and only he is the source of their true meanings....Nevertheless, I'll bring it down a notch for you, and you are welcome to verify/read what I previousely wrote, Ali Lmrabet is no hero based on the Trivial and unconsiderate material he put out in such bad timing. ACCORDING TO THE LAW , he should also be jailed. NOW and according to me, I don't like what Lmrabet did persay, but I certainly don't think a person should be imprisoned for 3/4 yrs for something merely said.
PeaceMaker, I doubt this clarification is too complicated for you to grasp, after all you are the birght one.

Peace N Love

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5:04 am    June 17, 2003
mourad
55
trois ans au lieu de quatre!!!

http://www.lemonde.fr/article/0,5987,3212--324172-,00.html

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4:53 am    June 17, 2003
Mes3oud
54
Elli 3goudha biddou i7elha besnanou ! oui c?est le bon proverbe marocain qui peut expliquer cette affaire. je ne suis pas un politicien et je ne suis plus un fanatique de politique mais autant que marocain photographe designer c?est normal qu?il soit arret? et de payer une amende :) lorsqu?on voit la premiere photo elle est au copyright alors personne n?a le droit de la modifier et publier sans autorisation en plus c?est pas juste une photo mais plusieurs les tetes des personnage qui soulaivent 3ami driss oui certain vont dire je suis hors sujet mais c?est une autre option qu?on peut lui affecter s?ils disent qu?ils sont tout a fait d?accord il a le droit de dire ce qu?il veut mais la prison ghaddi ib9a fiha kima tra !
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12:25 am    June 17, 2003
poorman
53
Salut tt le monde,

tant qunad parle des lignes rouges ds un pays soit-disant en voie de la dimocratie...il y en a que le nom.Nous somme ds un ere ou cherchant un modele de constitution imaginaire , je perdons du temps et je nous sacrifions des generations....Alors que nous ne somme q'entarin de s'eloigner de la solution qui est entre nos main et les autres ont de la haine sontre nous ? d'elle....
Regarder bien on est des Musimans , cette realit? comme la plupart ignore ds ses demarche vers la belle vie ....regarder combien de temps vous allez vous juir sur terre....Ali Lamrabet n'est exemple minime de grand desordre intelectuel qui regne partout ds le pays . Alors au lieu de travailler sur les axes important on s'acharnent tous sur les fitulit?s...desol? mais je suis tt ? fait ds la meme longueur d'onde .....je ne prend pour exemple que les juifs qui se battent pour l'id?e car c elle qui les unit...lisez l'histoire et vous bien comprendre ce qui etait fait et ce qui doit etre fait .....

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11:47 pm    June 16, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
52
50
Republic and Democracy sure are not synonyms, but they are usually interchangeable. I'm not sure what you want to say when you try to distinguish democracy from a republic... I understand that a republic is a state which power is vested in the people who elect representatives (USA, France..) to intervene in government - it's also free from hereditary ruling -, democracy is a state in which the power is also vested in the people who directly decide government affairs.. I yet have to see a true democracy, I don't see it, what we mean when we usually say democracy is republic. no? but apologies, I think this is out of the subject of Ali Lmrabet and Journalism.
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11:34 pm    June 16, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
51
48
This is a test.... this is an example of a reply to message 48 by clicking on the reply link, in the bottom right, of message 48 box.
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9:13 pm    June 16, 2003
Why?!@#
50
Hillou :) just so we won't get lost in our discussion ... do we have something like the following in our constitution???!!!! Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.(first amendment in the U.S Constitution) if the answer is no... you shut your mouth if you are in morocco ... my point is that the key to democracy and freedom in Morocco is to change the laws and constitution. Democracy is not monarchy or republic ... the terms democracy and republic are not synonymous ... again and again ... there is things that need to be changed first ... Peace ...
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8:21 pm    June 16, 2003
moulzarri3a
49
a ssi Peace Maker, you have to pactice what you preach and not "terrorize" people for their own opinions. i said what i said and i stick with it because i believe that ali Lemrabet is just a coward "arriviste" if you dn't like it that's totally understandable but you can't call me or anyone else idiot because we expressed what we feel. you talk the talk, so walk the walk ou khallina men dsara ou toulet lsan ra klam l3ayb koulchi kay3ref ykhourjou ou lba9ya raka 3arefha.
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7:44 pm    June 16, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
48
I see clearly a division of opinions here. I myself am along the lines of Amine, mourad, Peace Maker and those who view Ali as a free thinker, not a trouble maker. Someone who does not deny his responsibility to get people to excercise their right to critique politics, to break free of taboos. Breaking taboos does not necessarily mean undermining values. Some taboos unfortunately somehow ended up in the book of law. That's where the complication starts in Morocco.

Think about the following quotes:

"It is the common failing of totalitarian regimes that they cannot really understand the nature of our democracy. They mistake dissent for disloyalty. They mistake restlessness for a rejection of policy. They mistake a few committees for a country. They misjudge individual speeches for public policy."
?Answering North Vietnamese charge that US could not endure a long, inconclusive war, address at San Antonio, 29 Sep 67
Lyndon B Johnson

"The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself."
?"In Praise of Dissent" NY Times, 16 Dec 56
Archibald MacLeish

Regards

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7:21 pm    June 16, 2003
Peace_Maker
47
You know what guys. It is really a shame that the guy is being treated brutally for saying what he likes or he thinks. And it is not a pride for us to boast off abroad when we see alot of idiots among us thinking that we Moroccans ( Muslims) have limited freedom or whatever...blah blah! telling us that Mr. Ali is being held that way because the King is a Sacred Personality ( Chakhssiya Mou9adassa)...I can't believe that even some Raioosters are so stupid, when they dare say: "Ohh! the guy had crossed the line!" ...Well, idiots! let me get this straight to your rusty brain. People are REALLY sick of kissing the hand of a man like them. People will respect when they get respect...Analyze this quote : "I still think that FOUR years in prison for something you say is pretty shitty"

You got a mouth, got expressions, how do you define your freedom?

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5:41 pm    June 16, 2003
Arabi^7ta^Nmout
46
(cont)
....I still think that FOUR years in prison for something you say is pretty shitty, excluding the whole context in which the "issue" was born....ambiguous, but when do you draw the line!!!!. Freedom of speech is a fragile thing and can only get stronger if we work hard to address real issues first and foremost.

Peace N Love

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5:33 pm    June 16, 2003
lalla_tamo
45
ce mec n;a fait de mal a personne, il publie une journal satirique. il a pas vole, il a pas menti, il a rien detourne.......tout ce qu'en lui repriche c'est ce qu;il pense et ce qu;il ose ecrire et publier. nous pensons tous la meme chose, mais nous n'avons le couarge de nous exprimer, parce que dans chacun de nous il ya un petit moukazni. Marocains, nous sommes en l;an 2003, on n'envoit plus les gens en taule parce que nous n;apprecions pas leur humour,
le maroc a des priorites, et mrabet doit ceder sa place en prison pour le juge, le procurreur du roi....qui l,on condame, et eux au moins je metterais ma main qu'ils ont fait de quoi meriter un bon siecle a l'onmbre.

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5:24 pm    June 16, 2003
moulzarri3a
44
the guy is abusing the little freedom of speech that we have. as it was written right here in the front page of raioo under "think about this" by Radia "ila kan tabssil fih la3ssal, ma tla7souch koullou". apperently, mourad, you didn't think about.
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5:04 pm    June 16, 2003
Arabi^7ta^Nmout
43
Ali Lmrabet guilty or innocent, under our law, the man is guilty as charged. Again according to our law, I assume there is no room for debate over the incarceration of Ali Lmrabet. Now do you think the law should be changed to be otherwise, i.e., to have the right to speak freely to the point of mocking and making up lies about the monarchy. If so, why even want that right?!! Is this very right sooooo essential to our newly born freedom, or is this helping us in any way grow to reach a steady and durable democracy. If so, how? Are Ali Lmrabet?s articles and mocking cartoons (the ones that caused his imprisonment only) any beneficial or better yet considerate to his readers especially as Morocco was/is living through difficult times dealing with real, much bigger, and dangerous issues? Nevertheless, Ali Lmrabet is an intellectual person, who well knows the law; he made conscious decisions and followed through with them but oddly enough does not want to assume the consequences. It is indeed a very sad situation that I certainly do not wish him or any other. Starving himself to death is not a blame we can put on our government, as it was a personal ?choice? by Lmrabet. Similarly, we couldn?t blame the government if a cold-blooded killer committed suicide because didn?t want to do the time. (The comparison is a little extreme, but one can argue that it?s relatively apprehended).
I guess my point is if you?re given the opportunity to experience freedom, do not abuse it.
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4:46 pm    June 16, 2003
mourad
42
je suis d?sol? mais ca d?pend ? quelle vitesse ce "bechwya bechwya" marche. si on va attendre encore 100 ans c'est pas la peine.
et je vouderais bien savoir quelle libert? d'expression on a au maroc? en quoi tu veux utiliser cette libert? a part la politique?
et puis je ne connais pas beaucoup de pays dignes ou parler librement est passible de quatre ans de prison, et le fait de voler des millions au peuple est pardonn?. ca s'appelle tout simplement l'injustice.
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4:36 pm    June 16, 2003
moulzarri3a
41
je ne vais certainement pas aller jusqu'a te traiter de stupide, however it seems that you forget that Ali Lemrabet is in fact doing more harm than good to the freedom of speech in Morocco. Freedom of speech doesn't come just like at 100%, ca vient peu a peu, bechwya bechwya. le petit peut de liberte d'expression that we have risks to be taken away because of what Ali Lemrabet did.
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4:21 pm    June 16, 2003
mourad
40
Je n'aime pas lire des messages aussi naifs que ceux de moulzari3a car il me laisse parfois penser que de toutes fa?on des marocains comme lui m?ritent leur sort. je hais cel? car je sais bien que la naifet? n'est pas forcement un d?faut. mais disons que dans ce cas on peut aller jusqu'? dire que c'est de la stupidit?...
quel interet aurait un journaliste de risquer sa libert? et sa vie si ce n'est pour une vraie cause? les lois sont faites pour etre chang?es tout le monde le sait. et il y a des valeurs qui passent au dessus des lois.
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4:01 pm    June 16, 2003
moulzarri3a
39
Adnane wrote: "Maybe those limits need to be redrawn by reviewing and changing some cultural dogmas, habits and psychological pressures, for the better. On the other hand, if the history of our country were to speak, it will beg us for change and improvement so as to avoid repeating itself."

Until then (until the changes are made) he is gilty as charged.

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3:11 pm    June 16, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
38
It is such a shame to hear someone say that our culture is one of limiting freedom of expression. Let's all be so apologetically grateful for the ounce of freedom that we were granted, then. Why try to get more freedom; it against our culture anyway, right?

Instead of repeating what others say, let's for a moment try to understand the message of an article, the essence of a carricature, and the tone of a symphony. A lot of people didn't like what he wrote; come up with counter-arguments. The other members of our press were so impotent in their ability to make arguments that they resorted to violence against Lmrabet's reporters and photographers
(you might recall the events of early 2003 when members of Al Ahdath newpaper assailed his reporter.)

Oh, and the other comical thing: let's attack him on the basis of his nationality, right? This guys thinks that because he has a French passport he is above the world, right? Is that the best line of attack these fascists can come up with!? There are nine year old children in remote villages in the Atlas that can come up with a better argument than that.

Or maybe he suffers because he just loves to suffer. He loves all the attention he's getting while puking his liver out every morning, right?

Give me a break. Don't blame your inability to experience freedom on your culture or your history.

Read a book.

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3:09 pm    June 16, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
37
moulzari3a said: "there is a limit to the freedom of expressions, they are drawn by the culture and the history of our country"

Maybe those limits need to be redrawn by reviewing and changing some cultural dogmas, habits and psychological pressures, for the better. On the other hand, if the history of our country were to speak, it will beg us for change and improvement so as to avoid repeating itself.

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2:17 pm    June 16, 2003
moulzarri3a
36
the law is loud and clear and Ali lmrabet, no matter what other nationality he has, is not above the law. he looked for trouble he got trouble. instead of talkign about other much bigger problems he is taking the risk to jeopardize the little liberty of expression that we got in the past few years by adding some silly comments or drawing charcatures that are "not funny". there is alimit to the freedom of expressions, they are drawn by the culture and the history of our country, Ali didn't respect neither the limits nor the laws, he should be put in jail for that not as a victim of "freedom of expression" but as a law violator.
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12:40 pm    June 16, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
35
I am glad you think 3508 votes is a majority. Democracy at its best represented in Wanadoo. Good for you.

Don't misrepresent the man and accuse him of not writing about "corruption, illetracy, and extremism." In fact, it is all he dealt with. The arm-wrestling you speak of is a weak excuse people with certain extremist intentions use to defame him and marginalize his writings.

I won't post any of his articles since it might geopardize this site's future but if you contact Reporters Sans Frontieres you can get copies of his articles. Read them and judge for yourself.

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11:43 am    June 16, 2003
moulzarri3a
34
lemrabet est un l?che.lui et la presse dite libre ont b?n?ficie? de l'ouverture d?mocratique qu'a connu notre pays mais dans le mauvais sens.au lieu de d?battre les vrais soucis de la patrie tels que l'analphabitisme la corruption l'extr?misme...ils n'ont cess? de traiter des sujets futils fades et frigoles ? savoir ben barka oufkir boukhari.... des sujets r?p?t?s mais sans interet.
lemrabet s'est lanc? dans un bras de fer avec le palais comptant pour cela sur sa nationalit? fran?aise et les associations de l'hexagone qui le soutiennent,il a invent? des mensenges(la vente du palais de sekhirat)ses articles sont bourr?s de suppositions et de postulats,l'etat a ?t? tr?s indulgent avec lui car la nationalit? fran?aise qu'il a ne le rend un homme au dessus de tout le monde.
here is a survey organised by wanadoo regarding the arrest of ali lemrabet. La condamnation ? la prison du journaliste Ali Lamrabet
Une erreur 16.96% 595 votes

Bien fait pour lui 80.16% 2812 votes

Sans avis 2.88% 101 votes

Total : 3508 votes
if u ask for democracy u must respect the view of the others,the majority,this is democracy.
u can check that on www.wanadoo.ma

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9:45 am    June 16, 2003
newraiooer
33
I have been following Ali Lmrabet 's case since it started. Here are what he was accused of:
First of all, he published the budget that is assigned by the parliamant to the royal family (which is nothing wrong that, none of us never knew how much the parliement gives them, so it was an informative article for all moroccans)
on the second hand, he published that Skhirat was in sell. (from my point of view, there is nothing wrong with that, either it's true or juste a rumour)
He uses caricatures and drawings to speak his minds, I looked at his caricatures and they show the reality of us, moroccans as a$%# kissers to the king, how we bend to his majesty as his slaves. ( for me the king is just as any human being that deserves respect)
He never talked about Sahara but he pictured some main men in the government as corrupted ppl ( which is true and we are not allowed to tell them on the face)
That are all the reasons for what Ali Lmrabet got 4 years of jail, his two magasines "demain " and "Douman" were censored and he got 20000 fine.
Ali Lmrabet was condemned because he talked about the greatest taboo in our society" the king" and his " corrupted authorities"
this is against the free speech and democracy that M6 was showing us at the beginning of his royal life.


·

7:28 am    June 16, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
32
Here's a link to one of the articles:
http://www.courrierinternational.com/interview/avec/Demain.htm
It's not very offensive, but definitely makes specific hints and insinuations. "Why?!@#" makes a logical argument, though. The laws exist and they were applied. One can argue that the particular law that was applied is unjust and should be changed. Alas that is the point that Lmrabet is making through his hunger strike, and it doesn't seem that to those involved, his life is not worth changing the law over.
We wish his family courage as they battle through these difficult times.
·

12:07 pm    June 15, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
31
why at raioo dot com =) the link above (that says read more) leads to an article that gives hints about the artifacts of this case. If you have a better link let me know and I will link to it, it's better like that.
·

11:57 am    June 15, 2003
Why?!@#
30
Hillou :) ... hot topic ... but Adnane ... I have a request if possible ... before making a judgment on the topic ... I would like to ask you a question. is it possible Adnane, to post the articles in question? the articles that costed him his freedom ... also my opinion is ... if he really did say something about the king and the territorial sovereignty of morocco ... then i think he's mistaken... because it's a crime under the moroccan law and constitution ... so the first thing to do is to fight and change these laws first ... did you get my point ? ... change the laws and constitution ...
·

10:53 am    June 15, 2003
Peace_Maker
29
Guys let's not fool ourselves! This is not the 1st time such brutal acts against free speech in Morocco are made. You would be lying to yourself if you think you are in Morocco and you are free...You gotta forget about the human rights and stuff like that and go by your everyday life. And if you happen to see unusual things just shut up your mouth and keep it to yourself otherwise you may end up in a cold cell and make your familly miserable too...Moroccan Gov. will never change. And all of us still remember how the brutal Hassan II was till death took his tyrancy. I can't judge his son yet, but I do believe this is the beginning of a new era; which absolutely doesn't differ from the one we experienced under the rule of Hassan II.
Now, this is another example for Moroccans abroad to learn when they are talking about going back to help build a corrupted regime and a doomed to failure Kingdom.
·

10:01 am    June 15, 2003
Ali
28
Hi.
I agree with Bahja completely. Moroccans are always too quiet when it comes to politices or the government.They make as too afraid to say anything against our government when we should feel so willing to change things that we think they are wrong.
If we don`t soeak no-one would hear us.Thanks to Raioo that is giving us the chance.
·

9:28 am    June 15, 2003
Bahja
27
Pourquoi le public marocain ne dis rien? why not a demonstration in Casablanca en faveur de Alaoui et Lamrabet? Pourquoi les gens au Maroc sont indifferent (les parties politiques) bay3ine al match? I am sure if people go out in to the streets and ask for Lamrabet and Alaoui to be released, the govermnent and the King will have no choice! Who is willing to live in Morocco now? I changed my mind!
·

9:15 am    June 15, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
26
La Marocaine, il y a un lien dans la preface intitule (read more ?) ca donne un resume des propos. Est ce que c'est ca que tu cherches ?
·

5:51 am    June 15, 2003
piposh
25
mourad, je crois que le jour ou nous serons sur de maitriser ce que tu as appeler une instabilit? "temporaire" nous pourrons parler de libert?!
piposh
·

5:48 am    June 15, 2003
piposh
24
Bonjour a tous,

J'ai encore vu dans quelques echanges de mail, certains d'entre nous ?voquer le fameux baiser de la main, et l? j'ai envie de lever un leur ; je ne pense pas que le monarche oblige ses "vassaux" ? lui baiser la main, et franchement, croyez vous vraiment qu'il conmdanerait quelqu'un pour pas lui faire la courbette!!! ce serait tr?s ridicule.
nous hommes "politiques" adorent cela, et seraient fach?s si vous leur demandez d'y abstenir.
piposh

·

5:47 am    June 15, 2003
La_Marocaine
23

Je parie ke la majorite d'entre nous ne savent pas kels sont ces propos d'Ali Lmrabet, et k'on fait peut etre du Brouhaha gratuit autour.

Apres tout, un jounaliste n'est pas un Saint, peut etre k'il l'a merite.

·

5:28 am    June 15, 2003
mourad
22
la v?rit? est que le r?gime au maroc est tout sauf transparent.
plusieurs ouvrages et journaux se font int?rdire parce qu'il parle de la face cach? de notre gouvernement si stable et si ch?re.

l'instabilit? temporaire est peut etre le prix ? payer pour etre libre.

·

11:56 pm    June 14, 2003
Ayur
21
Ali lemrabet a seulement publi? un interview paru dans une magazine ?trangere!!!
on doit aussi parler de "Mostafa EL ALAOUI" le directeur de l'hebdomadaire "alousbou3" et le leader des journalistes au maroc ( le seul ? avoir critiquer le syst?me ? l'?poque d'Oufkir et Basri) qui est en prison, et il va etre jug? par la loi du "terrorisme" car il a publi? une lettre manuscrite de l'organisation "Assa3i9a" (tonerre) issu de assirate almousta9im et dans laquelle elle a relev? ses raisons pour ce ki s'est pass? en 16Mai, des raisons qui montre la complicit? disons indirectes de la DST!!!
la loi du "terrorisme" vient d'?tre valider apr?s presque un an de refus, car elle touche ? qq principes des droits de l'homme! mais tous les criminels de 16 Mai n'ont pas ?t? accus?s avec cette loi, sauf le pauvre journaliste qui en est le premier!!!
·

11:03 pm    June 14, 2003
monsieur
20
aweddi had shi bezzaf li kaydirou lhad khayna... sayyed jahoum direct face a face, il ne jous pas avec le feu, il ne joue pas avec les qnabel, il ne jous pas point. Il dit les chose comme il les voit, et voila maintenant qu'il paye le prix LUI MEME!

3lash mayfahmoush lamgharba had siyassa dyel makhzen une fois et pour toute.. fahmoulhoum assidi 3lash nass kayboussou malik yeddou 3lash ? 3tiwhom une explication.. mashi t7absss waldihom! ... wa fahhmou lbashar ! rah lbashar baghi yafham, bashar rah wellaw 7entourin.. hypnotize!.. ila mat lmalik kayabkiw.

wash daba lamgharba mayykin wella ? mafhamtsh ? depuis longtemps kayashriw les magazines dyel Ali, kaya3jbouhoum les caricatures et les textes dyelou, kayda7kou binathom, .. drook 3taweh dd'har wella ? there are no manifestations ? nothing ? les qnabel dyel casa, les manifestations oul7ay7a.. had khayna mayykou 3lih, shoof kidayer ga3 neddmouh !!

YAD WA7DA MATSSAFFAQSHi KIMMA KHALLAWHA NASS ZMAN... aweddi Ali Lmrabet layshafik, dir ra7met rebbi fel khater, je sais tu peux pas me lire maintenant...

·

10:04 pm    June 14, 2003
La_Marocaine
19

J'aimerais bien savoir l'integrite des propos de Ali Lmrabet qui ont mene a l'etat actuel des choses.
Si quelqu'un peut nous eclairer!
·

5:13 pm    June 14, 2003
mourad
18
je ne sais pas si le maroc ?chape aux r?gles normales des droits de l'homme, mais pour moi emprisoner une personne 4 ans pour des raisons pareils est plus qu'injuste.

je vous invite ? lire cet article de reporter sans franti?res sur la libert? d'expression au maroc:

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=6752

·

4:54 pm    June 14, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
17
mourad, critiquer le systeme monarchique implique critiquer le monarche.. a mon avis, et je suis sur que la loi pensent sous ses lignes.

Bon ce que je me demandes est ce que le genre de presse d'Ali est pret d'etre effectif et constructif au Maroc d'aujourd'hui ?

Voila un extrait d'un article chez reporters sans frontiere, un extrait d'interview de SM le roi qui parle de la presse Marocaine:

"Cette libert? de ton effraie en plus haut lieu. En juillet 2001 d?j?, dans une interview accord?e ? Al Sharq Al Awsat, journal arabe publi? ? Londres, le roi Mohammed VI faisait part de ses craintes : "Certes, je suis pour la libert? de la presse. Mais je souhaite que cette libert? soit une libert? responsable (?). Les journalistes ne sont pas des anges non plus. J'appr?cie pour ma part le r?le de critique que jouent la presse et les journalistes marocains dans le d?bat public, mais gardons-nous de succomber ? la tentation du mod?le import?. Au risque de voir nos propres valeurs ali?n?es et mettre en cause les libert?s individuelles (?). Ce sont les limites que fixe la loi (?). Celle-ci doit ?tre appliqu?e ? tous. Lorsque la presse parle des droits de l'homme, elle oublie parfois de respecter ces droits."

·

4:26 pm    June 14, 2003
mourad
16
si on r?agit comme cel? apr?s les attentats c'est qu'on reviens des pas en arri?res, on combat le feu par le feu...
il est vrai que dans la loi marocaine il est interdit de s'attaquer ? l'image du roi...bla bla
mais si vous voyez bien les caricatures, vous allez comprendre qu'elles critiquent le systeme et non pas la personne.
qui d'entre nous n'a pas honte quand nous voyons des vieux et des jeunes baiser la mains du roi, ou la file qui salut un train...
je ne crois pas que ce genre de critiques puisse destabiliser notre pays, je pense plutot que ca donnerait au systeme plus de cr?dibilit?. et que ca rendera peut etre au marocains la confiance en leurs dirigeants.
·

4:25 pm    June 14, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
15
piposh.. la situation de ce journaliste et son l'emprisonement a eu lieu bien avant les attentats de Casa (5/16)
·

4:10 pm    June 14, 2003
piposh
14
qu'on soit clair, je ne cautionne pas la condanation d'ALI, mais j'essaie d'analyser l'acte d'un journaliste dans une ambiance qui est loin d'etre on enfants surtout apres les attentas de casablanca.
·

4:04 pm    June 14, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
13
mourad, le dilemme, c'est que l'on - le pouvoir - veut donner le droit de s'exprimer, mais a une condition, implicite, qu'on soit illettr?, non? sinon les gens eduque et qui ont une certaine bravoure ou bien meme un certain impulse de s'exprimer sur de tels sujets politiques, alors ca, l'on - le pouvoir - n'en veut pas.

Est ce qu'il y a quelqu'un la venant du Pouvoir qu'il/elle nous explique un peu comment ca marche ce droit d'expression a la marocaine ? quelqu'un du gouvernment, palais, coterie, etc. Merci!

Je suis sympatique avec Ali et j'aimerais bien voir sa sante qui s'ameliore - ca c'est plus important pour l'instant a mon avis - et de ne pas recommencer cette greve de faim, c'est quand meme pas religieux! non ?

·

4:04 pm    June 14, 2003
piposh
12
Tout ? fait, je suis enti?rement d'accord avec toi, mais ne penses tu pas que c'est un peu d?stabilisant de s'attaquer au roi, sachant qu'on est dans dans un contexte internationnal tr?s tendu. Ne penses-tu pas qu'on s'attaquant au symbole de lamonarchie, donnerait l'occasion ? des anarchistes pour semer la ziznie et la terreur au maroc. Qu'on soit clair
·

3:52 pm    June 14, 2003
mourad
11
je suis d'accord mais disons que les journalistes sont l? pour dire ce que les gens ne peuvent pas s'exprimer.
je ne crois pas que ALI LEMRABET aie ce probleme l
·

3:50 pm    June 14, 2003
piposh
10
Ou plutot, commencons par leur appendre a s'exprimer.
piposh
·

3:41 pm    June 14, 2003
mourad
9
commencons par leur donner le droit de s'exprimer
·

3:34 pm    June 14, 2003
piposh
8
Comment d?mocratiser un pays dont plus de 70% d'habitants sont ill?tr?s ?

piposh

·

3:20 pm    June 14, 2003
zinelabidine
7
il nous faut 50 ou peut etre meme 70 ans pour savoir ce qu'est une democracie,le maroc va marche arriere,notre roi dois faire quelque chose sinon,basta les monsonges de democrasie,et chapeau pour ali lemrabet lui il a des vrais couilles.
·

3:03 pm    June 14, 2003
piposh
6
s?parrons les pouvoirs et parlons de d?mocratie
piposh
·

2:59 pm    June 14, 2003
piposh
5
comment pet-on parler de d?mocratie, quand la justice est dans le service du pouvoir en place!
piposh
·

2:57 pm    June 14, 2003
piposh
4
Juger un journaliste pour un d?lit d'opinion, r?v?le un profond malaise dans la soci?t? marrocaine.

piposh

·

2:51 pm    June 14, 2003
mourad
3
je crois que ce qu'a fait cet homme est vraiment tr?s courageux. et je pense qu'il m?rite plus qu'un soutien.
la libert? d'expression est l'un des droits de l'Homme les plus fondamentaux. si on ne permet pas aux journalistes, qui sont la voix du peuple, de critiquer le pouvoir quelqu'il soit comment veut-on progresser??
moi je crois que l'initiative de ce brave homme est un grand pas vers la libert?.
il est en pleine gr?ve de fain en ce moment. je crois que nous devons tous le soutenir...
·

1:54 pm    June 14, 2003
piposh
2
La d?mocratie ne s'installe pas d'un coup de baton magique! dans l'histoire de toute les d?mocraties du monde, il n' y en a jamais eu une sans victime, non sans Victimes.
La d?mocratisation de ce pays, exige avant tout, une volont? politique. nous n'en sommes pas la!!!
piposh
·

12:55 pm    June 14, 2003
oupss
1
Tiens, voil? un autre sujet tr?s interessant ? discuter...

Ce genre de comportement de la part d'un ''gouvernement'' qui se veut ''d?mocratique'' est Honteux, d?plorable et Meskin!!! Quand les journalistes sont la cible d'un pouvoir autoritaire ca refl?te un malaise de la soci?t? et c'est le cas de la notre !!! MAIS au moins ca nous pousse ? r?fl?chir et surtout ? arr?ter de se leurrer et ? tirer cette conclusion ( Le Maroc et la d?mocratie font deux!!!) ...

c'est ? nous ''citoyens'' de se mobiliser contre ses pratiques condamnables, il faut que notre voix soit entendue pour arr?ter ce genres d'actes qui nous poussent ? avoir honte de dire qu'on est Marocains!!!!

? suivre ...

·

Adnane Ben.'s notes (341)
 
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Jahh Bless Mon! Feeling down to earth tonight!..
Cannot Believe These Idiots!..
NESS LA CITY: All?e Sans Retour! LOL..
When Lotfi Attar Rides Matabkish wave! You Lissann mon!..
KUDOS TO Cheikh Sidi Bemol & Band!!..
No Comment! DARRITOUNI.....
Mortality Meets Online Status..
Michael Richard Busted and Sorry!..
The UMMA Clinic..
Hanane Fadili Take on Shouaffa(tt)..
Hijab: Strict Code or Fashion Barcode ..
To The Fasting Darling..
Rimitti: Ana Li Ghrasset aNakhla....
Reminiscing Tex Avery Cartoons!..
Happiest Guy in Morocco!..
The Super-cool Hanane Fadili..
Cette Affaire d'Avions ? Londres..
Watch 2M Television..
American Muslim Fun Video Blogging!..
Open War in the Middle East?..
Touche Po a Mon Zidane!..
Ronaldinho Joined Zawya....
Marock!..
Draw Live!..
Zoo Animals Need e'space..
Les ABRANIS: Prodigy of Rockabyl..
Sofiane Saidi: Cet Algerien Trip-rai Hopper..
Lemchaheb Legacy ..
Zahra Hindi, Beautiful You!..
Jajouka's Winds of Moroccana..
Google Language Translation: English to/from Arabic..
Aziz Mekouar, Ambassador of the Kingdom of Morocco to the US..
Google Shoots Microsoft.. One.. More.... Time!..
Monsieux Mehdi Ben Barka: Un Marocain Assassiné Qui Visait P..
Yale, Taliban and Weld L'Hashemi....
Near-eastern Muslim Scholars..
Three Algerians on Highway =]..
Moroccan Riverdance!..
Moroccan Candle-toe Dance..
Moroccan Qassida: Vraie Poesie!..
LA3MARNA Legacy..
Chilling Like a Mqedem in Morocco..
Alone in the Wilderness..
Are Iranians and Americans Blowing it Up?..
Are we a virus..?..
How come Morocco is silent to Dalfour, Sudan?..
Barreling Towards an Iraqi Civil War..
Pomme and Kelly ..
Intelligent Design and Evolution in not so American lands..
The Prophets animated by Steve Whitehouse..
More with Claudio Bravo..
Muslim Texans..
Hajj Stampede Gone Ugly!..
Self-portraits 001-002..
Why Faith?..
Online 7awli Souk!..
2006 !..
 
2005
Derbouka Bled Attack..
Adopted HIV kids from Romania..
Operation Mapping Raioo Love!..
They burnt themselves.. Come'on!..
My Winamp Skin: The New Beetle..
The Forbidden Zone film that electrified me!..
Cousins skyblogging..
Chilean artist in Morocco..
Moroccan Blue tops colors!..
Osama in FAMILY GUY..
Baraka Art..
Itsy Bitsy knowledge..
The most misunderstood [and growing..] world religion, Islam..
Moroccan Christians..
Polygamy in USA..
Architecturing to joy!..
This Moorish cult in America..
The Magnificient King Vulture..
Al-Rashid and the Fart..
On the subject of Evil Eye..
Anecdote on Life and 3ibada..
Anecdote on Giving in Time of Need..
T-shirt design: L'Amoureux!..
Craig Thompson art..
The Real Origin of Smileys :)..
T-shirt design: Happy Sailor!..
T-shirt design: threadless in Kufi..
T-shirt design: Magic e-lamp..
My August '05 T-shirt Designs ..
Your Living Space..
The Raioo Story: 2. in the garden..
The Raioo Story: 1. intro..
Arabic Beat and Instrument Music Wanted!..
 
2004
RA?NA RAI Legacy..
Algerian Chaabi..
Nour L'Koufi (Gharnati)..
Hidalgo in Morocco..
Le Secret d'Elissa Rhais..
Imam Shafii. Soni N'nafssa..
Feqqas (Moroccan Biscuiti)..
Casablanca Connect..
 
2003
ZEBDA! Un Groupe Genial!..
Al Moutanabbi. Idha Ghamarta..
Imam Shafii. sa'fir tajid 3iwada..
boston.food.Tangierino..
Long Distance Honey ..
The Working Wife and Husband..
The Hammam Public Bath: Do you still go there?..
Hip Hop Classic Favorites!..
Down With Love..
Lord Of The Rings..
How To create a Moroccan remix of a video clip ? ..
 
2002
Why we don't eat Porc?..
Do You Play Music?..
Hidoura: Your Moroccan Natural Carpet..
Khaddouj Slam-dunking From Marrakesh To New York..


FAVORITES
Hmida Rass Lmida à L'Avare de Molière!
Moroccan City Names
Shining ability is a gift...
Halloween SPECIAL 2007: La Mort D'une Souri!
Cheikha Rimitti: 83 Years of Life...
Why do we pray ?
short ones
ABSOLUTE RAIOO Summer 2007 Rai vol.2
Cheba Zohra & Mahadattes de Rilizane
Close Encounters of the Moroccan Kind!
Biyouna
Another attempt at writing. Will this language ever feel natural?
North Africa Journal
Moroccan Tattoos
From Los Angeles to Casablanca!
Amina Alaoui Lyrics
Dr. Hassan Al-Turabi
Vulgarity as revolution: Lemsakh we tsalguit
Les Oiseaux De Figuig!
ghir bessyas a moulay!
QURAN FLASH
Moroccan Playing Cards Game ronda v1.0
A Call From Algeria to Help Suffering Little Boy Mounib!
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