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Adnane Ben.
Boston USA
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Berbers: Who Are These People? Where Do They Come From?
12:00:00 AM Saturday Mar 8, 2003

Text source: knopf guides (Morocco)

"Before it came under Islamic influence in the late 7th and early 8th centuries, Morocco had its own language - Berber - which seems to have developed during the centuries immediately before the Christian era.

Photo courtesy of Elisa C. Stead
Berber, like Arabic, belongs to the Hamito-Semitic group of languages, but the fact that it does not have a written form makes tracing its history extremely difficult. The first recorded instance of Berber proper nouns occurs in the Periplus of Hano, the account of a voyage undertaken by a Carthaginian navigator in the mid-5th century BC. Various similarities between place names translated into Greek and the Berber form of these names appear to confirm that Berber was spoken at that time. The names of certain Roman towns and cities that sound familiar to names in their Berber form seem to corroborate this theory. However, apart from this academic evidence, no written evidence exists of the Berber dialects that were spoken in ancient Morocco. Neither do writers in classical antiquity make any reference to the cultural life of Morocco's early inhabitants.

However, although part of Morocco was Romanized and Christian, it is generally agreed that, immediately prior to the arrival of Islam, the majority of Moroccans were still Berbers. Roman influence brought in an entire vocabulary, still used in modern everyday speech, usually related to newly introduced aspects of civilization such as the calendar, culture and houses. The arrival of Islam in Morocco prevented the Berber language from developing and became the vehicle of propaganda as the new conquerors spread the Holy Word through the Koran [which is originally in Arabic]. This compaign of Islamization and Arabization was not in fact led by the Arabian invaders but by dynasties of Berber origin, such as the Almoravids (Al Morabitin) and Almohads (Al Mowahidin). These dynasties imposed on Morocco and Spain an orthodox form of Islam expressed exclusively in Arabic. Although the wide use of Arabic did not entirely wipe our Berber, it considerably supplanted it, reducing the areas in which it continued to be spoken to inaccessible moutain regions. A law dated January 26, 1965, stated that Arabic was to be the only language used in any form of legal proceedings, whether for the defense, deeds and titles of judgements."

It is very interesting to see how the Berber language and the Berber people survived throughout all these centuries and still maintain some aspects of their heritage. I was watching the other day a documentary in Discovery that reveals for the first time the possibility that Berbers of North Africa (the studies concentrated on Lybia) coexisted with the Pharaons, and even influenced the civilization of ancient Egypt. We hope that academic efforts spend more attention to study ancient North West Africa.

The content of this page —graphics, text and other elements—is © Copyright 2007 prospective author, and Raioo, Inc., only when stated otherwise, and may not be reprinted or retransmitted in whole or in part without the expressed written consent of the publisher.

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7:10 am    August 1, 2007

AliMaghrebi message
Berbers of Morocco come from the south of Egypt. As for the analysis written above, it is highly political in content and should be reduced to dealing with 'facts'. Berber 'civilization' was in long decline long before any ARABS arrived in North Africa largely because the Berber tribes had been fighting wars with each other for domination and the Berbers were not very successful in their campaigns against other 'peoples' entering the region. Arabs unified Berbers under the flag of ISLAM , providing both a simple set of rules to follow and language and culture , making various unified dynasties possible. Unification under ISLAM gave the BERBERS a second chance and a golden era of empire. Berbers should be celebrating their time in History, not wasting time seeking to look for 'new' wounds to 'open' as political causes whose interests are not clear.

Ali Maghrebi


7:05 am    August 1, 2007

AliMaghrebi message
Berbers of Morocco come from the south of Egypt. As for the analysis written above, it is highly political in content and should be reduced to dealing with 'facts'. Berber 'civilization' was in long decline long before any ARABS arrived in North Africa largely because the Berber tribes had been fighting wars with each other for domination and the Berbers were not very successful in their campaigns against other 'peoples' entering the region. Arabs unified Berbers under the flag of ISLAM , providing both a simple set of rules to follow and language and culture , making various unified dynasties possible. Unification under ISLAM gave the BERBERS a second chance and a golden era of empire. Berbers should be celebrating their time in History, not wasting time seeking to look for 'new' wounds to 'open' as political causes whose interests are not clear.

Ali Maghrebi


7:09 pm    November 9, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
hello there

7:04 pm    November 9, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
try crack cocaine

11:14 am    March 19, 2003
wanna close ur nose with cloths pins and smoke that with pleasure

4:08 pm    March 17, 2003
hello folks. WE ALL KNOW MOROCCO'S HISTORY. can we discuss something else. something like SATANISM AND HARD ROCK in Morocco? was there a good reason to have these 14 guys arrested? It's good to know about this topic especially from those who live abroad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THX

4:07 pm    March 17, 2003
source: The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia Copyright ? 1999, Columbia University Press.

Berbers, aboriginal Caucasoid peoples of N Africa. They inhabit the lands lying between the Sahara and the Mediterranean Sea and between Egypt and the Atlantic Ocean. The Berbers form a substantial part of the populations of Libya, Algeria, and Morocco. Except for the nomadic Tuareg, the Berbers are small farmers, living under a loose tribal organization in independent villages. They have developed local industries (iron, copper, lead, pottery, weaving, and embroidery). The Berbers are Sunni Muslims, and their native languages are of the Hamitic group (see under Hamito-Semitic languages), but most literate Berbers also speak Arabic, the language of their religion. Berber languages are spoken by about 12 million people, not all of whom are considered ethnic Berbers.

Despite a history of conquests, the Berbers have retained a remarkably homogeneous culture, which, on the evidence of Egyptian tomb paintings, derives from earlier than 2400 B.C. The alphabet of the only partly deciphered ancient Libyan inscriptions is close to the script still used by the Tuareg. The origins of the Berbers are uncertain, although many theories have been advanced relating them to the Canaanites, the Phoenicians, the Celts, the Basques, and the Caucasians. In classical times the Berbers formed such states as Mauretania and Numidia.

Until their conquest in the 7th cent. by Muslim Arabs, most of the Berbers were Christian (also, a sizable minority had accepted Judaism), and many heresies of the early African church, particularly Donatism, were essentially Berber protests against the rule of Rome. Under the Arabs, the Berbers became Islamized and soon formed the backbone of the Arab armies that conquered Spain. However, the Berbers repeatedly rose against the Arabs, and in the 9th cent. they supported the Fatimid dynasty in its conquest of N Africa.

After the Fatimids withdrew to Egypt, N Africa was plunged into an anarchy of warring Berber tribes that ended only when the Berber dynasties, the Almoravids and the Almohads, were born. Each of these dynasties succeeded in pushing back Christian kingdoms which had pushed south against the fragmented Moors. With the disintegration of these dynasties, the Berbers of the plains were gradually absorbed by the Arabs, while those who lived in inaccessible mountain regions, such as the Aur?s, the Kabylia, the Rif, and the Atlas, retained their culture and warlike traditions. When the French and the Spanish occupied much of N Africa, it was the Berbers of these mountainous regions who offered the fiercest resistance. In more recent times the Berbers, especially those of the Kabylia, assisted in driving the French from Algeria. Contemporary relations between Berbers and Arabs are sometimes tense, particularly in Algeria, where Berbers have demonstrated and rioted against Arab discrimination.

2:47 pm    March 17, 2003
Hillou :) ... Al barabira ... soukkane al maghribe al a9damoune ...

1:24 pm    March 17, 2003

1:07 pm    March 17, 2003
I have a question for all of my beautiful fun loving moroccan brothers and sisters:
I want to get high with weed, but i hate smoking it.
Any suggestions.
Thanks in advance

10:06 pm    March 16, 2003
Amazighs and Arabs of Morocco are both victims of a system that emphasize oppressionand ,unjustice,and poverty.All people in Morocco as well as those in any other arab state are doomed to suffer from 'SIYASATE ATAHAMIS'.Those who sacrificed everything they had for the freedom and dignity of the nationgot nothing but SHIT and those who were agents of the colonizers got it all .Allah yakhod alhak fi adalimine.Poor brothers keep hoping things will change someday.May they will never.

3:56 pm    March 15, 2003
Whoever you are in Morocco, you must carry with you the fact that Arabs and Imazighen "Berbers" as one future are doomed to misery and poverty. The hopes are really slim and dim that one day we will wake up and see Morocco as an equal democratic Nation. Things are badly tangled in there. In another word and shape "Screwed"

9:05 am    March 15, 2003
Invitation for people of good will:

Let's all use the word Amazigh instead of Berber as much as possible.

thank you and god bless the muslims.


9:02 am    March 15, 2003
"Thanks to Arabs the Amazigh are muslims" ?!
That's wrong.
"Thanks to Allah the Amazigh are muslims. And thanks to Allah the Arabs are muslims"...."Yahdi man Yasha'a wa yuddilou man yasha'a".

I believe that it is humanly natural that any two distinct ethnic groups or cultures fight each other or mistrust each other. It is a bounty (ni3ma) from Allah that the muslims are brothers.

The day we moroccans leave Islam and its values, Allah will remove that love and broterhood from our hearts. And then we will do or say things that we will regret later on.

Peace and 3acha lmoudir.


8:23 am    March 15, 2003
salam alikoum ?wachir mabrouka pour tout les internautes musumain, Mister moderateur vous pouvez me dire ou puis-je trouv? le fichier CHKARRA.

11:57 pm    March 14, 2003
Good point Achraf. The French at that time met a nasty resistance they never experienced before from the Berbers. After they found their way to the capital they issued their conspiracy plan ( which was called Adahir Al Barbari ) to divide the unity of the people and motivate them far enough to wage a civil war. Most of us agree that there's still plenty of hatred sparkles between Arabs and Berbers. That's the sour truth you witness in some corners between Fes, Casablanca, and Khenifra.

11:06 pm    March 14, 2003
The word Berbers should not be used because they were called berbers by the ocupation which means uncivilized people.

5:08 pm    March 14, 2003
Chel7 o biiikhir
Berbers: Who Are These People? Where Do They Come From?

What a topic!!!!!!
Why don`t u put this topic instead "Who are these 3roubiyya???, Where the heck do they come from?

This a nice topic, so adnane update your knowledge coz we are 100 % moroccans BRO.


4:14 pm    March 14, 2003
What's cooking adnane? I just got back with you guys, but it seems like the participation is not heating up yet!

11:50 am    March 14, 2003



8:07 am    March 14, 2003
amine: 3ajbatni la citation dial moutannabi.Completely agree with u bro!

7:21 am    March 14, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
Hi guys,

This is a very good subject and the reactions of people to the subject are very intriguing. Morocco has been evolving passed the age when a particular ethnic group is deem superior or inferior to others. Berber culture is constantly celebrated as are other cultures that have influenced our history. Culture, it would seem to me, is not static. We should not talk about one group of people as having a distinct set of values that is particular to them alone.

We in Oujda used to believe that we were the only hope that Moroccan morality had. We thought our conservatism and rigidness clearly separated us from the people from Caza, Fes, or other parts of the country. But traveling through the country and meeting different people (including berbers) it became clear that our moral superiority was just a myth. Every place we went to exhibited strong family and civic values, some that even we had to bow down to.

I think that the debate over berber being better or worse than other groups (bear in mind that there are many ethinc groups in Morocco besides berber and arab) might be a little misguided. More often than not, people would look back to the past and say my ancestors are better than yours. But what good is it if you can't effect the future. In fact, people of old didn't even think of these divisions. Tareq Ibnou Ziad was of berber origin, but he was still put on top of the most important army in the history of Morocco and Europe.

But then again, my man Al Moutanabbi said in a beautiful poem:
Laysa 'lfataa man yaqoulu kaana Abi
Lakinna lfataa man yaqoulu haa 'Anadha

Peace, and enjoy the cold weather while it lasts.


6:37 am    March 14, 2003

alaeddine message
gradually this conversation is turning to an anti-arab debat. i do respect berbers and i'm expecting some respect from them as well.

peace maker wrote: "Berbers are the ones who gave Morocco its freedom"

what do you mean brother?


12:30 am    March 14, 2003
aboutnreligion: don't forget that berbers first knew judaism and christianitity besides some paganism before converting to islam.
Jewish berbers left us a beautiful inheritance, think about jewelry for example.
It is that mix of religions and people that made morroco such great culture.

9:50 pm    March 13, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
well you didn't really make it clear that you're just quoting your "some Arab idiots", instead you wrote it in a way that indicates you're the author. Next time get your referencing basics straight if you want people to distinguish your ideas straight, and the first time.

9:14 pm    March 13, 2003
I didn't describe them with that word smart ass - Please do smell the context! which is unfortunately that's how some Arab idiots refer to them...Hope you get it straight this time.

7:53 pm    March 13, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
Filthy ????? that's a wrong word to describe berber with

6:58 pm    March 13, 2003
1st of all this is a valuable topic though a looping one. Berbers had established a great culture and confronted different eras. All they needed was Islam. Allah granted them that grace. Their way of life is so naive and simple. They may look filthy, strange and belittled; but they are the people who made and still making Morocco a deep cultured country. Berbers are the ones who gave Morocco its freedom, they are one who still preach values and wisdom; while most of the Arabs already deprived their lives and offsprings of those family values and ran into Western way of life with a blind eye ( must be a cursed one! ) Berbers didn't bring wines and cigarettes and all sinful things, sure they didn't but some of their innocent offsprings are paying the price in enormeous fields : political, social, racial...While history also tells us that some of non-Berbers didn't do **** about ejecting the invaders. Well, It's a pride that I take whenever I do mention myself as a Muslim Berber. It's a truth that needs to be seen from a different angles in the Moroccan society. Now, the bottom line is: Berber or Arab, A real Muslim is the winner!

2:39 pm    March 13, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
Actually Issami, when I asked the question I merely wonder about the history of that period in time. I didn't mean to make an impression that berbers were massacred or something like that...

I am sure there is history that talks about that time, maybe the books of Ibn Kheldoun (I totally forgot the other book dedicated solely to the history of Morocco... I'll find out later).

But anyways, I just wanted to learn about the approach the muslims took when they spread in North africa.


2:07 pm    March 13, 2003
Hi I?m berber from the rif .I just want to thanks almoudir for this topic.what i want to say is that thanks to arabs the berbers are muslims.
I?m proud to be rifi and the same time moroccan.
what is more important its to love each other and care about each other because all we are muslims and all we are sons of adam

1:19 pm    March 13, 2003
Intersting quetion that you have asked Adnane; Did they fight? is islam about killikng people or fighting till they convert to Islam? I have a jewish friend who told me that Arabs killed berbers when they first arrived! Howcome we do not know anything about that period of the history? eventhough we know about many things that had happend before? Is morocco trying to hide something? Or just nothing that important to be tought at primary school!

12:33 pm    March 13, 2003
was islam their ultimate religion?

10:43 am    March 13, 2003

Adnane Ben. message

actually how did the Arabs communicate with Berbers when they "invaded" north africa ? how long did they fight ?.. actually did they fight ?

if they fought, was it because muslims were actually.. invading the region in the name of spreading Islam ? .. I thought muslims should be peacefull


10:19 am    March 12, 2003
batman l7aj mol salham labyad : matchofch fih a la7mar daba y3i9 bina, 7der 3inik rana rad lbal, rah yla mchaw ta 9albona, aydarbona bi 40 3am lwa7ed fal3ader, wa sir shwi lakbal tamma dik sa3a, 7dar 3inik lah yl3an bok.
la77as lkappa mol razza safra: l7aj ! hadak li wraya ta howa m3ahom, rah kayahder fi portable, rahom wa9ila 3a9o, aji nbadlo sa3a bi okhra rah l9adiya atafrash.
3inin lmoch : ana lyoum matangalla3 manahna tan9adfo had 6 kilo li mta9la 3lina, whadak lfalka li ntoma khayfin mano ana ndabar 3lih bshi sriyyaf, waymayak 3lina, rah 9atel boh a jjo3 200dh tnassih fal3aalam wal9anon

9:29 am    March 12, 2003

Le berb?re a ?t? en contact avec de nombreuses langues ext?rieures depuis la plus haute Antiquit? : le punique d'abord, avec Carthage (fond?e en - 814) et les autres implantation ph?niciennes ; le latin pendant la dur?e de la domination romaine et de la p?riode chr?tienne ; l'arabe, depuis la conqu?te de l'Afrique du nord et l'islamisation des Berb?res (d?but du 8?me si?cle) par les Arabes. Le fran?ais, enfin, ? travers la colonisation. Mais c'est surtout l'influence de la langue arabe, ? l'oeuvre depuis 13 si?cles, qui est, dans presque tous les dialectes, tr?s sensible, notamment au niveau du lexique.


9:29 am    March 12, 2003
what do u do wthi the rif people?
I have travelled in some villages n north morroco where people were speaking berber and were all blonds with green eyes:)
Also you should not base the origin on the physical aspect only: concept of races is deprecated and it is not a scientifical process to do so.
i found some info on berberian language;
Le berb?re est l'une des branches de la grande famille linguistique chamito-s?mitique, qui comprend, outre le berb?re, le s?mitique, le couchitique (Afrique de l'Est), l'?gyptien (ancien) et, avec un degr? de parent? plus ?loign?, le groupe "tchadique" (haoussa).

Bien que le berb?re soit une langue essentiellement de tradition orale, les Berb?res poss?dent, depuis au moins deux mill?naires et demi, leur propre syst?me d'?criture appel? "libyco-berb?re" (et tifinagh en berb?re). Il s'agit d'un syst?me alphab?tique (consonantique) aux usages assez restreints (fun?raires, symboliques et ludiques). Actuellement, cet alphabet est toujours utilis? par les Touaregs et il conna?t, sous des formes adapt?es, une certaine extension dans les milieux kabyles. Mais depuis le d?but du 20?me si?cle, l'?crit berb?re utilise surtout le support de l'alphabet latin (avec diverses adaptations) ou celui de l'alphabet arabe (en particulier au Maroc).


9:28 am    March 12, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
Antr said: "Just take a second look at those men in the picture above(who represente the average look),
and tell me if you see anything scandinavian about them ."

Antr, I took a look and didn't see any scandinavian or viking there heheheheheheheheh I only saw des characterrrrrrr LoL


8:40 am    March 12, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
Nobody is denying that Morocco is a salade of cultures, you just seem
to read the content of my messages selectively...

If some vandales conquered some
region of Morocco, that
doesnt make the stream line of the berbers or any other moroccan having a germanic
The Berbers are semites according to the enthropoligists, who base
their research upon genetics, linguistic and cultural profiles,
not on speculations and subjective studies...having said that, their exact location of origine is not precisely determined, but that doesnt mean that Japan, or Sweden or Antharctica are a possiblity too.

there are no similarities between the berbers and the nordic poeple what so ver,
not in the looks (Even french, Italian or a greek person is considered as dark and short here...)
, not in the language, otherways berber language would be more close Dannish than to Arabic.
nor in the believes and traditions, nor the cultures.
I travel to Agadir every year, and believe me, no Moroccan reminds me of a nordic person...
Just take a second look at those men in the picture above(who represente the average look),
and tell me if you see anything scandinavian about them .
If you claim that the viking are the grand fathers of the berebers, you might as well claim that the inca civilisation was built by the Somalis.


8:08 am    March 12, 2003
al haj. andi chi khbar zina, shouf dak al kazaoui li tay chati fi portable basnass kbir. oudair labass. alash man nkalbouha hchich hna badal al business dial jemal ou labguar.. chouf had echantillon_hiya dial bassah

6:31 am    March 12, 2003
bo snan : al7aj, dik naga li 9addafti lama3ti raha 3agra, wa tsayyad maskin hhhhhh, walayni rak chlahbi al7aj, wa katban lah y3amarha daaar, sa3a nta mnawwad laghbaar.
l7aj: diha frasek a ssi mohammad, lbi3 wa chra hada, howa masawalnish wana majbadtch 3la rasi n7al hihihih.
mol jalaba zitiya 3inin jjan : l7aj l7aj, ha wahed lhamza jabha lah, chi bgirat 3and bochta, rahom lux a bba lhaj, jbad jbad l3a9a yalah nchofo rza9na, zrab 9bal mayfozonna bihom l3adyan

12:43 am    March 12, 2003
ANTR: Au Ve sc., les Vandales ont envahi une partie du Maroc avant que les r?gions c?ti?res et les villes fortifi?es soient conquises par les Byzantins d?s 533. Les vandales ?tant une peuplade du nord de l'europe, d?crit comme les "hommes aux cheveux rouges" par les juifs du maroc dans d'anciens manuscrits.
Wa raj3ou chwya dial l'histoire avant de nier en bloc!ON EST UN PEUPLE DE MELANGEs: ARABES, BERBERES, VANDALES,ROMAINS,EUROPEENS etc..normal vu notre situation g?ographique.

8:01 pm    March 11, 2003
Assid al 7aj, zid ndiro chi trayya7 dyal al bi3 ochra, olla al ballote, walakin 3afak laghmize mam3anache.
what a wonderful life!

4:22 pm    March 11, 2003



12:19 pm    March 11, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
Antr, hahahahaha khataaaar!!! I was just playing moroccan cards the other day (Lekdoub)

12:08 pm    March 11, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
Hanta a siLhaj, ghadi nwerrik wahed truc magic dial LkarTa, baQi Ga3ma khtar3ou David kbaLField.
Ghadi ndakheL karta dial shbada BasToss men had lid, wenkharreJha Ray dial Shbada men lid lokhra. yalah rod LbaL wakha Ndar 3andek sala...
LhaJ: Amatehmadika rabbika L3adim, bi rahmatih 3amma yasifone. rak sehhar nimirou wahed.

11:59 am    March 11, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
Oisiene, a Semite language is not defined by the shape of the symbols, but rather by its phonetic prononciations... Ha, 3a, 9af , and other hangoura its grammartical construction.

And, no... the Vikings never reached Morocco. the Romans did... but the Vikings kan hadhom middle Europe.
and blue eyes, are not typical to nordic poeple alone...
blue eyes can be found in Afghanistan, Syria, Rif as well as in Morocco.
the thing is that among many Moroccans, berbers or not, there is an African blood, due to the intermariages with poeple originating from Africa.

In any case, my favorit dude on the picture is the peaceful one with with a white Taguia looking at his friend chatting on the phone.
they look like Asterix and Obelix.
Amma hadak bouL Qob li bhal Lpyramid, ya imma mkhabbi fih miniature Al Samoud missile, wla Qaleb Sokkar dial Jrana.


9:25 am    March 11, 2003
Walakin sara7a touqal, hadouk lawjouh f la photo lfouq I can't trace them back to any other faces in the world :) they are UNIQUE! especially the guy in yellow turban.. well I'd say he's of Portuguese origin, he's short and round... otherwise the old man, that guys looks much influeneced by arabs. The tall guy with pointing Qoub and olive jellaba you can say he's got Afghani blood in him... the guy with blue jellaba talking on the cell.. well I think that guy is CAZAWI and not berber.. his laughing friend is ohhhbviousely Berber, most indeginous.

But one thing I also notice is that berbers in general are not tall.. they're midium length and not fat.. but still have majority round faces.. they have a dark brown skin perplexion... although the young berbers shlou7 I know they're all very WHITE! I guess they're pampered and not have to work in the fields anymore.


9:15 am    March 11, 2003

I strongly second Antr,

I myself always believed that Berbers have deep roots in Afghanistan and surroundings. I've seen pictures of native Afghanis and Kurds, and maaaan do they look like our Berbers!! same eyes, same faces hair, way of mountainous life. So add to that some mixing with arabs and you get the Berbers of today.

Berbers of Rif, well those might have another root in Europe and medditeranean in general, makes sense after all.

It will be probably interesting to study Kurdish language against Berber languages.. and see if they have some resemblance.


8:33 am    March 11, 2003
fernatchi les sources que tu as qui te disent que les berberes n'ont pas d'origine c 'est des idees colonisatrices comme celles des americains pour les amerindiens
ils essaient de tous leurs moyens de faire oublier cette culture qui est plus riche que tu crois cher.
..j'espere que la culture arabe resistera a ce qui se passe presentement et que ne viendra pas un jour quelqu 'un comme toi et moi qui parlent dans un site marocain une langue qui n'est pas la leur et qui n'ont aucune idee c'est quoi leur culture d'origine
et qui se croit tout savoir

8:26 am    March 11, 2003
fernatchi c est les arabes qui sont venu de cham ou lyaman 3an tari9 7abacha wa misr pas les berberes. faut que tu revises tes curs de 7-8 ans..

7:09 am    March 11, 2003
i have my own theory about the origins of imazighen. the imazighen have actually no origin, they r the the source of other worls populations, this theory is based on several strong arguments that i wnt bother to share with u.

6:16 am    March 11, 2003
P.S. the genetically thing was not done by ibn khaldoun

6:13 am    March 11, 2003
"the berbers are the first inhabitants of almaghreb, they came from sham and yemen through habasha and misr..." this is the first history lesson thaugh to 8-9 years old kids, and just one form of brain washing in the moroccan education system.
i cant beleive that they taught us this on the XXth century while in the 12th century Ibn Khaldoun has proved that this theory is wrong, and genetically the Imazighen people of north africa are linked to the medeteranean people.

6:09 am    March 11, 2003
el che vive!
Je ne sais s'il y en a qui sont au courant de la vague d'evangelisation que subit l'Algerie et plus particuli?rement les zone ? Majorit? Kabile.
Des sectes auraient converti pas mal de personnes.Au fait ? la base de cette vague de cette "attaque" il y a des sectes ou mouvences religieuses Suisses et Americaines qui ont sut proffiter de la haine qu'on une partie des Kabils envers les Algeriens d'origine Arabe.
Il y a meme des recompenses en argent pour toutes nouvelles adh?sion ou conversion, et parmis les arguments avanc?s par ces nouveaux evang?listes:Le peuple arabe veut effacer la culture des berberes et que l'Islam et une religion qui leur est impos?e et qu'il est temps de la changer...

Tout cela est facilit? par les initiatives de la France qui vont dans ce sens, comme par exemple on ommet un peu facilement dans la tele Francaise de dire le Joueur d'origine Algerienne mais plutot Kabil...
Tout ceci nous ram?ne ? la r?alit? marocaine qui est loin d'etre(alhamdoulillah) comparable ? celle de l'Algerie.Mais cependant il faut faire tr?s attention ? cette ?quilibre fragile entre toutes les composantes qui font la force du Maroc, tant culturellement qu'humainement...
PS:Je suis moi meme berbere est je suis fier d'etre musulman et immerg? dans cette culture arabo- berbere tellement riche.


5:10 am    March 11, 2003
check this link:

4:34 am    March 11, 2003
don' forget that the wikings invaded north morrocco indeed, whi may explain why some berbers are blond whit light-colored eyes.
Now The origin of berbers is still a mystery for many historians, so all what we have is suppositions, even for their language(which is not really semitic by the way, see theirwriting)

4:04 am    March 11, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
To me the most plausible explanation wich does make a sense to me is based on genetic profiling of the Moroccan communities, wich demonstrates that the moroccans do have Afro-Asian geens. and by Asian geens we mean the middle eastern ethnicities, Arabs, Kurds, jews etc...not the Japaneese or the poeple of Hong kong...
Further more the Berber language is a semetic language just like Arabic, Kurdish or Hebrew, wich are deriving from the same origine, and is by no way related to the Swedish, Norwegian or chineese languages ... Just like the phenotype of a Berber, a kurd or an Arab is far from the one of a
Viking or an Irish...
I know that many, out of a sort of ethnic extremism, refuse the idea that the berbers are originating from Yemen just because they dont like to be related to poeple of TalaL Abou HabaL Bnou BalaL, who happen to be very infamous during these past 400 years...
The look of the poeple shown on that picture could make them fit anywhere... Yemen, Souss, GerssiF, Shyadma, 3abda, Bouya rehhaL etc....but in no way they would fit into a nordic or caucasian look.
Further more, the music and its rythms , as well as the fashion are more similar to middle easter culture than than to African or any other race.

PS: In Yemen, men wear a sort of Komiya(curved khanjar) on their belt and a turban, just like the Berbers in morocco do...strange coinsidence eh...?


11:33 pm    March 10, 2003
SAlam all,

I just remembered something taht happened to me when I was in my last year of high school in Rabat.

Our prof of the French language wanted the entire class to discuss something so she said she will choose a subject.

Her subject was: "C'est qui les berbers?"

There were tens of Imazighen in the class (maybe herself too).However, every body was dead silent and nobody knew anything about the Amazigh heritage. The entire discussion was just questions with no answers.
Some questions were offending like: "Do they have a language?", "Where are they from?".

Allah didn't forget the Imazighen when he created the people of the earth with their looks, tongues and colors. he gave them a tongue too. And a beautiful one indeed. Tamazight is a beautiful language for poetry and stories. And why do we have to find an origin to the Imazighen? Have you ever heard somebody asking where did the Chinese of China come from? We all came from one human being, Adam (alayhi ssalam).

"Who are the berbers?". The first group of the children of Adam who reached North Africa and settled there. They call themselves the Imazighen (The free people). they received the Universal message of Islam 14 centuries ago and spread it to Spain and sub-Saharian Africa.
That's my simple (very late) answer to that question.


11:15 pm    March 10, 2003
Salam alaikum,

Here in Canada, some people say that Canada without Quebec (and the french culture) will be like the U.S . I think it is our rich heritage: Amazigh, Arab, Sahrawi, Andalusi, Sub-Saharian, that sets us moroccans apart from other "Arab" countries. Can you imagine a morocco without Ahwash, Ttarab al Andalusi, Gnawa....? It would be too boring to live in.
Al hamdullah we were given all this cultural heritage and it is our responsibility to preserve it and learn about it.

Moroccans are challenged to show the true spirit of "tolerance" (attassamuh). I don't have to be just like you to be your brother (or sister). I belong to the Chleuh group of imazighen. I am glad that I am moroccan. I can meet every day people originating from Arabia, Sahara, Andalus and more. That makes me a rich person.

Allah says in the holy Koran: "And among His signs the difference in your colors and tongues". The Tamazight and Arabic tongues are signs of Allah that we can enjoy experiencing every day in Morocco. Let's protect them.

Your brother le shleh de Rabat.


10:18 pm    March 10, 2003

9:09 pm    March 10, 2003
You know who's those guys?
Let me seeeeeeee! Hmmmm!
Nice weather! may be very hot day!
These guys are the CIA of the Darb!...They are wired under their Jalabas..SMILE!!!
No just kidding, they are three businessmen, discussing about stocks while waiting for our wall street market to open.



2:38 pm    March 10, 2003
Guys, please use Imazighen instead of Berbers. Imazighen is the correct name for people from North Africa. Berbers came from the word "Barbare". You can't name people who have a long civilisation in the past and a strong culture wrongly. It's time to change that.
Sam from NYC you're the man!!

12:54 pm    March 10, 2003



12:07 pm    March 10, 2003
The fact is it is extremely almost impossible to trace the history of Berber since there is not and was not a written form in any way that can prove its origin.
Based on what that Berber came from Yemen through habasha and shem?.

8:22 am    March 10, 2003
berbers 3andhom their own ktaba dialhom, there is a guy in Germany who developed a keyboard with berber letters. it was the first one ever made

5:10 am    March 10, 2003
dear silm i don t know what s ur point but next time be nice don t talk trash about someone u don t know !!!!!
we re all moroccans !
so bro stay in your lane that s better for u!!!
Berbers: came from the Yemen !!!!

4:25 am    March 10, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
The berbers are related to the Vikings ???? :)))))))))
You should make a difference between an hypothesis and a joke...
As far as I know 99,9 % of Morocco is made of k'haL Rass, where do you see a scandinavian connection?
in the color dial Taguia or the design dial Lberd3a ?


8:51 pm    March 9, 2003
OH!my bad i saw...
matkoun ghi jmima m3aytalou ,cheftou fer7an l3afrit:)

5:46 pm    March 9, 2003
i dont see any cellphone in the pic???

3:10 pm    March 9, 2003
wherever he came from, the guy in the pic next to the 3 guys is talking on the cellphone with his jellaba.. it's so damn funny.IoI

2:01 pm    March 9, 2003
In June 1987, a missionary from the United States living in the province of Fes wrote to his colleagues in Melilla the following:

As I began to compare notes with others in our region I realized that Berbers in our key cities and even in my rural town were often apologetic about their "berberness." It is especially true of Mekness and Fes whose imperial Arab history causes Berbers to hide their ethnic roots. This is quite in contrast to some of the other Berber regions of the country. But to a certain degree, I feel that those of us living in urban areas will confront this same thing, maybe not as a rule but at least sporadically.

Gill articulates a problematic situation leading to confusion, which is actually a confusion in identity that creates obstacles for the researcher who expects people to be what they say they are. With the fear of punishment and intimidation and the dominance of an Arab-Islamic ideology, in addition to about 50% illiteracy, the situation is even more problematic


1:59 pm    March 9, 2003
In 1000 B.C. the Imazighen people were already long established in North Africa . In Morocco for instance, they constitute at least 75% of the population distributed among three sub-ethnic groups and dialects . Owing to their political and geographical position, the Imazighen have been invaded by Phoenicians, Romans, Vandals, Byzantines, Arabs, and Europeans. Eventually, they all left, except for the Arabs. The Arabs brought Islam, a universalizing religion, and stayed to become an integral part of North African population and heritage. Their language, however, changed and gave rise to what is known as Darija, Aammia, or Colloquial Moroccan. North African countries, including Morocco, are considered today to be an integral part of the Arab World. Constitutionally, these countries claim to be Arab-Islamic Nations. Today, most Moroccans claim Islam as their religion. Given that Arabic is required for the practice of Islam, most Imazighen feel they are Arabs as well, although those who claim to be Moslems are not necessarily Arabs nor do they have to know Arabic. This situation have also a psychological impact on the self-perception of Imazighen.

1:00 pm    March 9, 2003
I find this topic extrememly interesting. I would like to clarify that the population was not as indigenous as you may think. But I would like to point out that there are many theoriesin regards to the origin of the Berbers. I have read about theories that vary from Scandinavia to China. Indeed this is a reason we can see the difference between Berbers. Actually, I know a Berber that has the perfect attributes of a Scandinavian. But once again all this needs to be researched.
As for the Berber culture, we should not forget the fact that they have formed a multicultural culture that dates back as long as 3000yrs. This peculiarity can be suggested through the various groups and their origins that have migrated to N. Africa. But one thing that is sure is that a major ethnic group was the Jewish. A substantial portion of the population were Jewish. Even the Queen of Imazighen that was resisting the Arab invasion was Jewish herself, called Kahina, but this did not disturb the unity of the people, who had learned to coexist peacefully for multiple centuries, if not milleniums.
Today when mentionning the Moor contributions in Spain and North Africa, we should not forget that these were mainly Berber dynasties that have ruled through the regions and created a very rich culture that shows many virtues we lack today.

12:38 pm    March 9, 2003
My mom used to say Riafa schlu7 al 3azz, swassa sclu7 al kanz et amazigh le reste schlu7 al khanz, but I do not agree. I dod have a lot of friends that are schlu7 and we get along pretty much except some who are from Errif, they are a bit hard to hang out with. I do also think that Morocco is recognizing berber as native people of Morocco, and now their language is beeing thought in schools, mainly due to the fforts by M6, and the pressure of berber of Algeria!

11:59 am    March 9, 2003
i m really no sure if i can accomodate this particular description to berber people:
riafi:chlou7 l3ezz
soussi:shlou7 l3ezz
ahlou7 latlas:shlou7 lhnez(not in bad way but probably t means FUN)
so what do u think guys?

8:49 am    March 9, 2003
?This is the remaining of ?Hassan article I couldn?t post it at once?

Myself I have lovely mother how dosn't speak or understand Arabic
If she needs just a small paper work from administration I have to call and beg someone to go with her.

I'm hoping the recognition of Tamazight to be a priority. "It is a sacred right. We want to recover our rights and feel proud to be what we are. This is our goal. If authorities refuse, well, to every action there's a reaction

The Moroccan authorities in June stopped Berber activists from holding a meeting to decide on the creation of a united group to press for the rights of the Berber ethnic group.

The meeting was to mark the first anniversary of the signing by Berber groups of the Amazigh Manifesto. The 2000 meeting announcing the signature of the manifesto was not banned.

Still, this is not a separatist movement, we just want the Berber feature of our identity to be recognized.


8:41 am    March 9, 2003
Hello all;
this is a really a huge problem that is facing our beloved country
the berber are the majority no question about it even do the officials and the royal family trying
hard to cover up this problem but they just keep adding full to the fire for example:
Arabic education system, the lack of programs in Tamazight on state radio and television and the absence of an entity in charge of preserving the Berber cultural heritage is threatening what is left of it.
But in a speech marking the second anniversary of his enthronement on July 30, King Mohammed promised the creation of a Royal Institute for Berber Culture.
Describing the Berber culture as a "national treasure", he said the institute would preserve the Berber cultural heritage and coordinate with education bodies for the teaching of Tamazight.
Berber activists welcomed the announcement, saying they hoped the promise would be fulfilled. "In 1978, parliament approved the creation of the national institute for Berber culture and studies which was never set up,"
the king did not mention in his speech the issue of "recognising Tamazight as the official language". "Why must a Berber woman, appearing in court in a Berber area in front of a Berber judge, speak Arabic?"

"If a European appears in court, they'll get a translator. Nobody in Morocco speaks Arabic...There is Darija (the Moroccan dialect) which is a mixture of Arabic, Berber, French and Spanish, and there is Berber,"


7:58 am    March 9, 2003
First thanks a lot LMOUDIR for this topic.
Berbers are the original inhabitants of North Africa, before the Arabs who invaded the fertile area in the seventh century in what is known as the "Islamic Conquests".

The Moroccan constitution says the country is Arab and Islam is its religion. The proportion of Berbers in the population of 30 million is not officially known but independent sources say they represent the majority.

The number of Berbers in the world is estimated at 25 million. Apart from Morocco, most of them live in Algeria, Libya, Mali, Mauritania, Niger, Tunisia and in the Canary Islands.

all Moroccans are Berbers but that Berber influence in political and economic life remains limited. "History books say only 200,000 Arabs invaded the whole of North Africa, so the impact on the local population was like a drop in the ocean," said Lahcen Oulhaj, a Berber activist and university economics lecturer
History textbooks hail the Arab roots of dynasties that have ruled Morocco for the past 1,400 years. The contribution of Berbers to the country and its cultural heritage is either not mentioned or limited to traditional dances and folk festivals, activists say.

They doubt the accuracy of the official line in the absence of Berber history books, which they say have been destroyed. "They say Arabs found little resistance from the peaceful indigenous people to impose the new religion (Islam). This is nonsense," said one Berber activist.

When the Romans arrived in North Africa, they met tough resistance and named the inhabitants of the region Barbarians, hence the word Berber. However, Berbers prefer to be identified as Imazighen, or the Free Men in Tamazight.


7:39 am    March 9, 2003

1:15 am    March 9, 2003
hey what s up guys
long time no see
yeah i m still stuck in Afghanistan enduring freedom!!!
nice pic i really missed the website
well keep it real see ya all next summer!!!

12:17 am    March 9, 2003
good choice lmoudir!
time to shed some light on that matter that many of us ignore!

9:57 pm    March 8, 2003
twarag, or Sahrawa in general are not berber, they are arab.

9:10 pm    March 8, 2003
The picture is very familair to me! was it taken in Merzouga?
I do think that Berbers and arabs lived in symphony eventhough one can say that arabs invaded North africa. At least they treated berber just like themselves, and that's just wonderfull especially when you comapre it with the way the white american treated the indians of America.

5:40 pm    March 8, 2003
well written article - i'm moroccan too but arab not berber so it was interesting to read this and learn more about our country's culture. I wanna also mention (even though it's not meant to be said in this category!) that i was so dissapointed when i eagerly wanted to purchase a raioo teddy bear and all i found was "proud to be moroccan GUY??!! what about girl??!! come on people!!!

5:11 pm    March 8, 2003

:) not to mean to be sarcastic, but for those who are paying attention to the illustration (from last episode of raioo social discussion) notice the guy talking on cell phone (pretty cool), not to mention if you scroll more to the left, the guy giving CPR to his buddy hehehehehe or I bet adjusting his vertebrate spine hehehe (is that you Antr ?)

anyways, I think Berbers are phenomenal people! whether Rif (riafa, gla3a), atlas (shlou7..etc), sahara (twareg, Figuig <---- my origin..etc),

I was listening the other day to music of Berbers where they surround fire and sing.. it sounded like sub-saharan African tribes.. I then remembered what I read a while back about how Berbers used to be worship universe aspects such as Fire, the sun, moutains and so on..


4:52 pm    March 8, 2003
zine zino
This si a wonderful topic Mr. Almoudir .

3:54 pm    March 8, 2003
test to see if it works well

Adnane Ben.'s notes (341)
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Chilling Like a Mqedem in Morocco..
Alone in the Wilderness..
Are Iranians and Americans Blowing it Up?..
Are we a virus..?..
How come Morocco is silent to Dalfour, Sudan?..
Barreling Towards an Iraqi Civil War..
Pomme and Kelly ..
Intelligent Design and Evolution in not so American lands..
The Prophets animated by Steve Whitehouse..
More with Claudio Bravo..
Muslim Texans..
Hajj Stampede Gone Ugly!..
Self-portraits 001-002..
Why Faith?..
Online 7awli Souk!..
2006 !..
Derbouka Bled Attack..
Adopted HIV kids from Romania..
Operation Mapping Raioo Love!..
They burnt themselves.. Come'on!..
My Winamp Skin: The New Beetle..
The Forbidden Zone film that electrified me!..
Cousins skyblogging..
Chilean artist in Morocco..
Moroccan Blue tops colors!..
Osama in FAMILY GUY..
Baraka Art..
Itsy Bitsy knowledge..
The most misunderstood [and growing..] world religion, Islam..
Moroccan Christians..
Polygamy in USA..
Architecturing to joy!..
This Moorish cult in America..
The Magnificient King Vulture..
Al-Rashid and the Fart..
On the subject of Evil Eye..
Anecdote on Life and 3ibada..
Anecdote on Giving in Time of Need..
T-shirt design: L'Amoureux!..
Craig Thompson art..
The Real Origin of Smileys :)..
T-shirt design: Happy Sailor!..
T-shirt design: threadless in Kufi..
T-shirt design: Magic e-lamp..
My August '05 T-shirt Designs ..
Your Living Space..
The Raioo Story: 2. in the garden..
The Raioo Story: 1. intro..
Arabic Beat and Instrument Music Wanted!..
RA?NA RAI Legacy..
Algerian Chaabi..
Nour L'Koufi (Gharnati)..
Hidalgo in Morocco..
Le Secret d'Elissa Rhais..
Imam Shafii. Soni N'nafssa..
Feqqas (Moroccan Biscuiti)..
Casablanca Connect..
ZEBDA! Un Groupe Genial!..
Al Moutanabbi. Idha Ghamarta..
Imam Shafii. sa'fir tajid 3iwada..
Long Distance Honey ..
The Working Wife and Husband..
The Hammam Public Bath: Do you still go there?..
Hip Hop Classic Favorites!..
Down With Love..
Lord Of The Rings..
How To create a Moroccan remix of a video clip ? ..
Why we don't eat Porc?..
Do You Play Music?..
Hidoura: Your Moroccan Natural Carpet..
Khaddouj Slam-dunking From Marrakesh To New York..

Hmida Rass Lmida à L'Avare de Molière!
Moroccan City Names
Shining ability is a gift...
Halloween SPECIAL 2007: La Mort D'une Souri!
Cheikha Rimitti: 83 Years of Life...
Why do we pray ?
short ones
ABSOLUTE RAIOO Summer 2007 Rai vol.2
Cheba Zohra & Mahadattes de Rilizane
Close Encounters of the Moroccan Kind!
Another attempt at writing. Will this language ever feel natural?
North Africa Journal
Moroccan Tattoos
From Los Angeles to Casablanca!
Amina Alaoui Lyrics
Dr. Hassan Al-Turabi
Vulgarity as revolution: Lemsakh we tsalguit
Les Oiseaux De Figuig!
ghir bessyas a moulay!
Moroccan Playing Cards Game ronda v1.0
A Call From Algeria to Help Suffering Little Boy Mounib!

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