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ghalya houbbi
San Francisco USA
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44
comments.
Homosexuality in Morocco...Men only allowed??
03:36:24 PM Monday May 4, 2009


Hello world, maybe this topic has already been discussed but I just joined and wanted to get a feel of the community here...?
How do you guys feel about homosexuality in our Morocco...I know it's a pretty vague/abstract question but basically we all know it exists so how does one feel about it being so taboo, hidden yet all around us (there is definitely a lively gay community in many cities mostly Marrakech, Casa, Agadir, Tangiers...) We have also have many gay friendly tourist attractions and a lot of male tourist pick Morocco as their vacation destination. Of course no one really talks about it, but it's there and also I feel the main gay community is for the men and almost acceptable in a way and active, it's 'known' that the males get together, date, befriend each other, whether it's a Western man with a Moroccan, or Moroccan with a Moroccan, but I don't think anyone there can ever imagine or accept women being together intimately and dating, it's never ever talked about..right? Women definitely do a lot of stuff together though... What do you guys think? It's a man's world isn't it...

I don't know, I'm just curious, I'm an all accepting all loving typa gal who believes love is love and everyone should live a free life in justice, safety and have a choice and I'm also very interested in this subject in our country as well as other Arab and muslim countries where there can be a lot of hypocracy going on particulary in this subject (I've heard some stories in The Middle East that are quite shocking).
Anyway I read this online a few month ago, it's an article by a writer who published a book about this subject. Follow the link below for the article. (haven't read the book yet).

Enjoy!
http://www.al-bab.com/unspeakablelove/uel070321.htm


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4:30 pm    May 19, 2009

Adnane Ben. message
44
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moha, I added a friendly reminder to anybody about to post their comment, the reminder is a question that reminds the person to be friendly and aware of others' boundaries. I'm sure it will serve me and others many times.
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6:41 pm    May 18, 2009

moha ouhmou message
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I think you're missing the point - they're having all those disabled kids without being married. So what are we talking about?
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3:49 pm    May 18, 2009

Adnane Ben. message
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Certainly not! That, in my opinion, brings the possible hereditary disease argument down on its knees. There must be another argument to the incest case.
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1:39 pm    May 18, 2009

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
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Should he forbid a couple with down syndrome from getting married too...?
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7:01 pm    May 17, 2009

moha ouhmou message
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"Now, if you were a judge, would you legalize the marriage of this couple ? :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MlwOfAOWLo"

Beyond the moral side of things, these 2 are being selfish - they're bringing into this world children with disabilities - something that science predicts, something that doctors very likely spoke to them about (during pregnancies). Their lawyer's argument that they're not harming society is clearly stupid.

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2:42 am    May 14, 2009

ghalya houbbi message
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ok great thanks for clarifying
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1:30 am    May 14, 2009

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
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Adnane, yeah mon :)

For sure it must be a tricky case for the judge :), In deed it's hard to prove that they are harming the society. a long ago, I saw a tv show where a woman left her husband for their horse. Animal activists and lawyers were accusing her of abuse because an animal is not aware of it's actions. She was retaliating that nothing in the world would break their love. it was hilarious !

Here is a similar case...hehe


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD7UCNYnp3o

·

1:05 am    May 14, 2009

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
37
Ghalia Hi,


According to my knowledge it has not been proven that homosexuality is genetic, if it were it should be hereditary. Which is not the case. (gay children have hereto parents, and vice-versa). So the only factor left with a strong influence would be the Culture and especially the individual's interpretation of it.

Furthermore, the biological part of sexuality is regulated by the Ostrogens/ Progesterone ratio, yet we see masculine gays with hairy backs, and feminine looking lesbians. That suggests that the problem is not in the hardware, but in the software...(i.e. thought processing and emotions)

Emotion, Desire, Action : Change how you feel, and you will change how you think, and how you act.

According to Islam we are not supposed to be slaves to our desires in the first place...Whether that should be taken seriously or not, it is up to the individual's degree of belief and conviction.

·

5:10 pm    May 13, 2009

Adnane Ben. message
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Antr Hi ~ The case of the German brother and sister incest is interesting. I read somewhere something that I would be interested to hear what some of our renowned and wise Muslim scholars think. Someone wrote in a comment on youtube that incest is forbidden because the Bible said so. Then the poster goes on to say, then how the children of Adam and Eve bear generations?

This is why I stick by the rules in the Quran verbatim. Another explanation would be that if people give in to incest then the children are prone to all kinds of disabilities that are hidden in their parent's genes. As we strive to be humane, we should not indulge in anything that we know will increase the probability of producing disabled people. Another explanation, that someone might call their father, dad or grandpa. I don't know what kind of consequences this can have, but it definitely is confusing.

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4:53 pm    May 13, 2009

Adnane Ben. message
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I believe that there are people naturally born with hormonal ingredients (or genetic but hard to prove) that lend them to be attracted to the same genre. I believe strongly in this. I mean sometimes you see someone and you can tell that he or she is different.. perhaps the way they walk, move their hands or talk. It can get very tricky sometimes though. Why would God punish someone for their homosexuality by birth? I strongly believe that the mercy and wisdom of God may not punish. The warning to homosexuals is as equal as the warning to heterosexuals. The common denominator is giving in to the desires and the sexual whims outside of marriage. But what is marriage? someone could say, oh ok, homosexuals then are ok if they get married. God comes and first defines what marriage is and even who can get married to who. Almost every time God lists this rule, he says God is wise and knowledgeable. He doesn't elaborate in details why he puts these rules. But we need to obey. So he defines the marriage essentially as legal marriage between man and woman. So, basically marriage in our religion is not between man and man, or woman and woman. If this happens, then it's not marriage, call it something else. In which case you're sort of on your own. Just like you'd be on your own if you steal an orphan's money, just like you're on your own if you speak behind someone's back.

Look, my point is that homosexuals do exist. They can choose to date, have casual sex, and indulge in their homosexuality, in which case they are no different than a heterosexual who's banging left and right. Or, they can choose to acknowledge their homosexuality, and restrict their desires.. not because society will punish them, but because all of humanity must restrict itself sexually except with their partner in marriage. The only gotcha for homosexuals is that they cannot get married to same sex under Islam. So either they choose to be on their own and marry in Cambridge, Massachusetts, or live a single pious life, or bite the bullet and marry someone from the other genre for the sake of God. If the Muslim homosexual ends up choosing one of the last two options, perhaps their reward is even greater in the scale of God? maybe.

I really think it's clear to me.


·

2:26 pm    May 13, 2009

ghalya houbbi message
34
Well yes, homosexuality is 'forbidden' in almost all religions, that's what the 'books' say...That's not what my post was initially about, we all know it's a 'sin' but that sure ain't stopping anyone, not even muslims!!
·

2:21 pm    May 13, 2009

ghalya houbbi message
33
Hi Antr...
Can you please explain the 'deep' and emotional mishmash gays and lesbians you say have?... compared to that of the non gay/straight people.
What do you mean by that...? I know some pretty screwed up, 'deeply emotional mishmashed' straight people so can you elaborate or just clarify if I misunderstood your remark.
thank you

wish you well

GH

·

8:22 am    May 13, 2009

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
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Correct :
Homosexuality, not sexuality ... :)
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7:30 am    May 13, 2009

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
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All Mega stars are subject to rumors...:) and besides I said even if they "would", not that they "do"...or they do ?

Sexuality in Islam is forbidden, even the most sexy Imam would tell you that. Whether that is compatible with the western view of civil liberty or not, that is a different topic.

The link below shows that even Germany (which is more liberal than the US) is not able to get rid of morals and ethics imposed by religion.

Now, if you were a judge, would you legalize the marriage of this couple ? :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MlwOfAOWLo


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9:30 pm    May 12, 2009

moha ouhmou message
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"You should not sodomize or be sodomized by a man (Even if Hajib, Boy George or Stati would)"

Sodomy is a no-no but defamation and 'namima' are okay.
:-)

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9:20 pm    May 12, 2009

moha ouhmou message
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Adnane,
I appreciate your explanation. So no problem on this end.

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9:17 pm    May 12, 2009

moha ouhmou message
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Adnane,
I appreciate your explanation. So no problem on this end.

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3:41 am    May 12, 2009

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
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Adnane,

I agree, wisdom is not measured by a PhD or MD. The world (Morocco included) is full of highly educated crooks.

I think that confusion settles in, when a person presumably believes that religion is not man made, yet tries to conform Islam with his views rather than doing the opposite.
Certain laws are non negotiable, such us :

You should not sodomize or be sodomized by a man (Even if Hajib, Boy George or Stati would)
You should not commit incest
You should not fornicate with a goat, Panda, crocodile or any four legged animal.
You should not change your sex, even if that would be Ok in Iran, Europe or America.

I think gays and lesbians have some deep emotional mishmash, which gets reflected in their sex fantasies, preferences and acts. Wallahu A3lam... and I don’t care either…My concern is with the rest of 90%.

·

10:11 pm    May 11, 2009

Adnane Ben. message
26
moha, you just painted such a thick red line.


I will respect it and stand before it. I withdraw the question. Now I won't even dare ask in private, the paint is still fresh. If I had asked you I had the intention of knowing the context of the person behind the ideas, it helps me especially in an online discussion. In addition, I honestly see no harm in asking someone in private or in public, what they do, what's their field of study, research, or work, or even what's their religion. But I will observe your code of privacy. For Shia, I went back and read my posts. You might be referring to my last reply. I believe I was still objective. If we start being indifferent about letting deviance into Islam we become deviant. Hey moha, it's who I am, imperfect, irritating sometimes, but not stubborn hopefully, and I can be very friendly :) Apologies if I came across in a way that you thought I meant to offend you. Not my style.

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7:36 pm    May 11, 2009

moha ouhmou message
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Adnane,

You cannot be serious... really.

I don't get neither your point nor your attitude. You're taking me by surprise here.

What I do in life is not material. Just as what you do in life is irrelevant to me. But if you really would like to know, I can address that in private. I’m not sure it is a good idea for you to try to get personal with people.

I remember last time we had a discussion about Shiites you couldn't help your self but question my faith only because I said I was ok with living around Shiites. And I moved on - simply by ignoring your offensive remark.

And now this...

You seem to insist on getting personal at a time when the discussion is not. Remember, anyone can get really nasty if they wanted to. But, seriously, do you believe I’m interested in this type of argument?

·

5:11 pm    May 11, 2009

Adnane Ben. message
24
@moha ouhmou: I have no clue where you get your story of Negafa assisting the groom. I never heard of anything like this. Are you sure you saw it with your own eyes, and not merely recalling a dream you had? As for you belittling the religious scholars in Morocco, that's discouraging. In every trade, science and art, there is the "kassoul", the "mouqtassid" (average), and the bright. I'm sure we have scholars who are bright, and I'm also sure Morocco has the potential to produce the bright scholars of religious studies.

So, on a tangent, what do you do in life?

·

12:13 pm    May 11, 2009

moha ouhmou message
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Adnane,
Morocco would have a very long way to go if its PhD’s should submit to the judgment of religious “scholars”.

That’s medieval, one should add.

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10:57 am    May 11, 2009

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
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" So it has been traditionally part of the act that a 3rd party (a woman called negafa) would get involved and help the groom get an erection. It is the closest thing to a threesome. Yet this is Moroccan traditions! "

-Poor Negafa :( such a challenging mission should not be part of her "make- up artist" tasks...That's against the laws of labor ! don't they have a trade union ?

PS: Aliwat is prohibited in all monotheist religions, Islam included. I don't see what's so unclear about that...:)


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10:21 pm    May 10, 2009

Adnane Ben. message
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I agree, however the subtle point to watch out for is that their opinions are usually much more reasonable and informed than ours. I believe that part of respecting our religion is to respect the opinions of our scholars. When we feel a scholar has clearly made a case we should take his/her advice. I have seen extreme cases of common people who completely disregard the opinions of scholars because they somehow feel they are more educated "they have a MS or MD or PhD", and I think that's wrong and sometimes an indication of "iftikhar", arrogance.
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6:07 pm    May 10, 2009

moha ouhmou message
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"See...Lesbianism is not mentioned in the Koran and therefore maybe allowed by Islam."

Adnane,
I could have wrote "Lesbianism...IS allowed by Islam" but instead I wrote "Lesbianism...MAYBE allowed by Islam". In other words, I don't know if it is or if it is not.

What you said about checking the Prophet's accounts makes sense (to me).

But if the Koran didn't say anything and if the Prophet didn't say anything, then it IS allowed by Islam. What some third party has to say is merely THEIR opinion, not Islam.

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1:32 pm    May 10, 2009

Adnane Ben. message
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"See...Lesbianism is not mentioned in the Koran and therefore maybe allowed by Islam."

Remember that prophet Mohammed is the second reference after the Koran. If something is not mentioned in the Koran, one should ask the scholars specialized in prophet Mohammed's accounts. If nothing is found, the scholars study the issue more and give opinions. This process is important for the smallest of things I believe, just so that we can say we're indeed living by this religion.

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5:52 pm    May 9, 2009

ghalya houbbi message
18
'They wrote:
“Female homosexuality or sihaq is not mentioned in the Koran. It is prevalent in certain regions of Morocco, particularly the north, but remains hidden, unmentioned, and unstudied.”
See...Lesbianism is not mentioned in the Koran and therefore maybe allowed by Islam. '


-- Moha, Yes, I have been aware of this, the link to the article I mentioned to read in my first post addresses this issue :)

http://www.al-bab.com/unspeakablelove/uel070321.htm


wish you well

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2:42 pm    May 9, 2009

moha ouhmou message
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Ghalya,
Ok, thanks for the reference...I’ll heck it out.

I guess we’re pointing out to distinct types of resources. There has been, for example, numerous literary work and art work about homosexuality in America. However only surveys can tell:
1- The percentage of Americans who are gay
2- The percentage of Americans who support gay rights, etc.

Going back to your initial question “homosexuality in Morocco...men only allowed?” which I take as “are gay men tolerated in Morocco more than gay women?”

A song, an essay, a novel or a painting cannot answer your question. Only an actual survey would give you an accurate idea. Not to sound professorial, but a scientific survey is the tool used to figuring out society’s thinking and/or behavior. Your own approach by asking us that question actually goes along the lines of surveying people. And this is the kind of research that is widely lacking in Morocco.

I looked, I dug, and I googled :-) unfortunately there seems to be no research/stats/data about sexual views and practices within Moroccan society, that at least of the 21st century.

Anyway, here is a paper written by a couple of Moroccan doctors. It’s a bit informative but poor on actual data. At the very end they put a list of references and suggested readings.

They wrote:
“Female homosexuality or sihaq is not mentioned in the Koran. It is prevalent in certain regions of Morocco, particularly the north, but remains hidden, unmentioned, and unstudied.”

See...Lesbianism is not mentioned in the Koran and therefore maybe allowed by Islam. Call it a loophole. And no wonder it’s hard to pick up a woman in Tetouan... alright I’m kidding. Don't ask me how they got to all these conclusions.

http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/IES/morocco.html#1

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12:04 pm    May 9, 2009

ghalya houbbi message
16
Gnawi do you remember the name of the book which speaks about khuntha...if you can't find it it's fine i'll do some research.
I'm also very interested in how homosexuality was developed, I stumbled upon a great book on Amazon last year called 'Queer Nations: Marginal Sexualities in the Maghreb' and I found it VERY interesting, here's a summary....

Book Description

The Maghreb (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia) has been inhabited for millennia by a heterogeneous populace. However, in the wake of World War II, when independence movements began to gain momentum in these French colonies, the dominant national discourses attempted to define national identities by exclusion. One rallying cry from the 1930s was "Islam is my religion, Arabic is my language, Algeria is my fatherland."

In this incisive postcolonial study, Jarrod Hayes uses literary analysis to examine how Francophone novelists from the Maghreb engaged in a diametric nation-building project. Their works imagined a diverse nation peopled by those who were excluded by the dominant political discourses, especially those who did not conform to traditional sexual norms. By incorporating representations of marginal sexualities, sexual dissidence, and gender insubordination, Maghrebian novelists imagined an anticolonial struggle that would result in sexual liberation and envisioned nations that could be defined and developed inclusively.


Ciao

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8:17 am    May 9, 2009

Rasta Gnawi message
15
M.O: Seeing that this is not my area of research, I don't have a survey that I can readily "throw" in your direction. My point is simply that the subject is not obscure. Perhaps it's best to leave it at that.

What I am curious about is how homosexuality has developed in Morocco. The country has hosted several civilizations that brought their own traditions. I read a book a while back that talked about what we call in Arabic: khuntha. It was pretty fascinating in showing the social dynamics these special men brought to society. Likewise, in the book "Great Sky Woman" which is a fiction that links tribes in Africa, the same role of these special men is described in some detail (not a lot.)

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1:16 am    May 9, 2009

ghalya houbbi message
14
(Must Read) if you haven't already....

Tuhami: Portrait of a Moroccan
By Vincent Crapanzano

Published by University of Chicago Press, 1985

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1:01 am    May 9, 2009

ghalya houbbi message
13
Moha...(on deflowering practice)
Wow, I can't remember anytime where I heard that happening in Morocco in recent times...
Actually most of the people, friends and family I know laugh at it, my own mother who doesn't miss a prayer and can be very traditional thinks it's crazy...Of course it was part of our everyday culture once, but it's pretty rare now like Adnane pointed out.
I also agree with our Rasta brother about sexuality in Morocco, I have read so many essays, books, and articles that investigate sexuality in our homeland, some very candid... and one can see it really isn't that mysterious at all, so that's what ignited my desire on the initial posting. Like I said you gotta dig :) It's all there. I mean from all art forms, music, to literature, from visual art, to film, Moroccans as well as outsiders have commented on and questioned it all. There are a number of Moroccan films and European ones that explore this subject with our people and bring to light some reality.
Diverging is expected and encouraged :)

Best
Wishes
Gh.

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11:36 pm    May 8, 2009

moha ouhmou message
12
Throw me one survey that answers basic questions about sexual behavior in Morocco. Throw me something real and we will all learn. Check this sample which is a commentary (not mine) about Kinsey’s research back in 1948:

In 1948, Sexual Behavior in the Human Male shocked and titillated Americans enough to make it a bestseller. Americans who claimed to be prudish about sex were anything but, according to the book. Statistical calculations taken from a huge sample showed that 92% of men and boys masturbate. By age 20, over 70% of unmarried men have had intercourse. 40% of America's husbands have had extramarital flings. 69% of male Americans have had sex with a prostitute at least once. 10% of adult males are exclusively homosexual for a period of three years during their lives, while 4% of American men were “exclusively homosexual throughout their lives.”

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4:40 pm    May 8, 2009

Rasta Gnawi message
11
Sexuality in Morocco is not a mystery. There are numerous articles on the subject in academic papers. If you have access to Jstor, a quick search will reveal many papers dealing with the subject from several angles. I can't guarantee the level of tasty detail your 15 item list requires, but I doubt there are many countries on which that kind of work has been done academically.

As for homosexuality, I remember an old article published in the magazine Kalima that discussed male prostitution especially in Marakesh. This tells me that there has been work done on the subject. In fact, in these journals, you will find several academic articles dealing with both sexuality and homosexuality in Morocco, North Africa, and Muslim societies in general: "Culture, Health, and Sexuality", "Anthropology Today", "Anthropological quarterly"

Good luck and Jah bless

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12:19 pm    May 8, 2009

moha ouhmou message
10
I don’t know how widespread this sort of practice is. For sure it is not particular to Ouajda since I was told about 2 weddings in Casablanca where the same thing took place.

I have to say this, which goes back to my very first remark about sexuality in Morocco: there is a lack of social research in Morocco. What every one of us knows about Morocco is patchy at best. Whatever we know about Morocco generally comes from two things:
1- Hearsay
2- Personal experience

So when people discuss subjects like this (just as we’re doing) no one is equipped with general facts. Only social research can shed light about a society and what goes on in it in a particular subject matter.

I personally can’t vouch if this practice is in the minority or majority in Morocco. I can’t vouch for why people choose to do it or choose not to. Tons of things might be involved: pride, religion, ignorance, social pressure, tradition, etc.

So, yes, who knows?

·

12:09 am    May 8, 2009

Adnane Ben. message
9
I've heard such stories but I believe it is a minority practice. It clearly is a deviation from Muslim teachings. It is ignorance unfortunately. Thanks to Islam, the majority of Moroccans do not perform what you just described.

As to your question, what the Koran has to say about it? I'm not an expert on Koran, but I know that the Koran gives the woman much respect, dignity and the right for privacy. The Koran would only abhor the practice you described happened in Ouajda. My best attempt to back up my answer would be the following logic. Adultry is considered as bad. One can only say someone committed adultry if you accidently catch them in the act and you are sane, trustworthy, free of bias and agendas. It might take more than one witness. On the other hand, Islam does not teach us to question someone's dignity, to eavesdrop to find out whether someone is committing or committed adultry, or to force someone to admit their sin. Because the practice you described is explicitly using these tools to ultimately determine if the wife is virgin, and if she is not, the verdict would have been that she committed adultry. Therefore I believe the practice is not aligned with Islam's teachings.
Wallaho a3lam.

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9:53 pm    May 7, 2009

moha ouhmou message
8
5
Adnane,

Here is a story you might appreciate and please tell me what the Koran has to say about it...

7 years ago I was at a wedding in Ouajda – a family member (man) got married. Halfway through the ceremony women came out all excited with “zgharit” all over etc, and they were holding a white bed sheet with red marks on it. As it turns out, it was the blood from what they call “dkhla” which is the groom having sex and deflowering his virgin bride on the very night of the wedding.

I don’t see any privacy in deflowering a woman and making a show out of it. But this was nothing shocking because it is part of Moroccan traditions. But here is a detail that shocked me actually. The groom who deflowers his bride is obviously under pressure to perform because everyone outside the room is waiting for that “virginity license”. So it has been traditionally part of the act that a 3rd party (a woman called negafa) would get involved and help the groom get an erection. It is the closest thing to a threesome. Yet this is Moroccan traditions!

Ghalya,
Sorry, we’re diverging here...

·

10:39 am    May 7, 2009

karima karima message
7
5
l3ezz a adnane i totally agree with you
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12:02 am    May 7, 2009

ghalya houbbi message
6
Yes very interesting Adnane,
Many stars/artists are surely rumored to be gay, and somewhat not as questioned... Many I've met back home are also in the creative areas, and whom are somehow accepted and appreciated for what they do, (mostly by women) and I'm talking about the hair stylists, make up artists, designers, tailors... I saw a film on moroccanmp3 the other day that had a very small role gay character and he was hilarious. I've also seen some pimps in marrakech who were open about being gay and looked like they were simply accepted around everyone but I guess because they were pimps they were in that category of 'messed up' and 'trouble' ...so others didn't really judge them too much for being gay... I was told by my cousins there that it's 'normal'...and when I say they were open I mean mostly around their environment and appropriate group of people; where they feel safe.... nightclubs, bars and with others (I'm sure their families have no clue)... Also we have the great write Paul Bowles who had a long term relationship with a Moroccan man and it wasn't very hidden, I've also read many tales describing how young Moroccan boys who were shepherds slept with each other and were intimate with one another and folks around the villages knew this. It was in a way part of the lifestyle in some areas. But of course we never hear of these things as much as we'd like, so much secrecy, mystery, fear, denial and I can understand why. ahhh such interesting stuff. people need to kiss outside of their doors more....straight gay and in between! no crazy PDA just a lil love here and there. oh wait that's hchouma!
·

11:02 pm    May 6, 2009

Adnane Ben. message
5
4
Moha, someone doing sociological study about sexuality in Morocco should engage your relevant questions in their research :)

Well sexuality in our religion and upbringing is a very private thing, as it should be in my opinion. Rarely that you see adults passionately kissing, hugging, or even holding each other's hands in public. Rarely do you see parents expose their sexual feelings towards each other in front of their children or other family members. It is a private thing between a husband and wife. The Quran makes it clear. I believe, and please correct me if I am wrong, The Quran discourages husband and wife even from talking to others about their sexual experience, be it good or bad. Maybe that's why you don't see much research done in this area by Moroccans or by foreigners who will have to work hard to get answers from the Moroccan? In Morocco, out of marriage passionate play, foreplay, sex and everything associated with it is done either in the privacy of a home, rented space (aka Qibba), hotel or in a private gathering of same-interest people like night clubs. This is widespread now in Morocco I believe between man and woman. Because gays and lesbians are marginalized, even perhaps by the night club crowds, they would have to find other avenues and channels to express their philosophy. The strange case of Ksar Lekbir is an example: Basically private parties in a home.

It is important to be kind, compassionate, helpful and nice to the other in public or in private. However, the idea of exposing the sexual passion between two individuals in public, perhaps in an attempt to liberate themselves, be free and be one with nature, is an idea that Islam discourages and defies. Muslim cultures, including Morocco, have adopted the Muslim view. In fact, exposing the sexual passion in public invites others to be sexually aroused which may lead to all sort of problems from self-esteem, to wide-spread adultery, prostitution, cheating, sexual diseases, single mothers, etc. Someone might even get attracted to one of the individuals involved in the public show of passion however small it might be, and as a consequence might pursue to woe that person and perhaps even win a date or two with them, all in all resulting in broken relationships, damaged trusts and negative energy. Multiply this scenario by 1000 and you start seeing less people in the mosques and more night clubs and all kinds of tools to satisfy this new pursuit of sexual passion outside of marriage.

I know I haven't mentioned anything yet about gays and lesbians, but these people not only they are bounded by the Muslim view against public display of sexual passion adopted in Morocco, but also by the phantom laws and penalties, by the strong red-lined resonances of the biblical story of Lot as well as by the universal struggle of gays and lesbians to be fully accepted. Many western countries only recently are listening to gay and lesbian activists and granting them acceptance and rights one bit at a time. This is expected of western countries where freedom of expression and pressure are practical and working tools to introduce change. In Morocco, freedom of expression is still penalized, pressure is usually exerted more heavily top to bottom, so Moroccan gay and lesbians may have to keep their lifestyle private for a long time. The strange thing in Morocco is that gays, lesbians and even transsexuals can be tolerated if they happen to be stars. I heard Souirri or Hajib are gay, I heard of the transsexual bellydancer Noor (aka Nooreddine). Somehow if you're an artist and gay you're ok. Recently I heard even some minister is gay.

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8:50 pm    May 6, 2009

ghalya houbbi message
4
hi Moha ok great thanx!
No, men are not really 'allowed' to be with each other in Morocco but it's totally there, very present and has been for a long time, so I definitely see more gay guys than gay girls when I'm there and that's what my curiosity was about.... that's all. I mean most of the men hide it and deny it of course. But that doesn't change much...I'm not making any conclusions, just what I've experienced and so I wanted to use this 'idea' in the title of my post. I wanted to get people here talking, not really answering but maybe more questioning, like Adnane pointed out there is no easy answer, (I believe that was well) so I am happy to see others taking part of the curiosity and thanks for your post and your questions... We all have them. That article is great, check it out if you haven't.
Yup sexuality is pretty salty there, things are changing bit by bit... you just gotta dig deep. Hope you find your answers, be well. One
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4:53 am    May 6, 2009

moha ouhmou message
3
Hello ghalya,
Are you sure homosexuality is allowed in Morocco?
Are you sure sexuality is allowed in Morocco? (outside of marriage)

Sex in Morocco is a mysterious, salty, embarrassing thing. And we don't seem to know a whole lot about it...

1- what is the ratio of Moroccan men who like other men?
2- what is the ratio of Moroccan women who like other women?
3- what is the ratio of Moroccan women/girls who engage in premarital sex?
4- what is the ratio of Moroccan men who engage in premarital sex?
5- what is the ratio of Moroccan women/girls who care to remain a virgin?
6- how do Moroccan women/girls engage in premarital sex yet remain virgins?
7- do some Moroccan women/girls engage in homosexuality to remain virgins?
8- do some Moroccan women/girls engage in anal sex to remain virgins?
9- do some Moroccan women/girls engage in oral sex to remain virgins?
10- do Moroccan women have a favorite sexual position?
11- do Moroccan men have a favorite sexual position?
12- how’s the missionary position called in Arabic?
13- how many Moroccan are aware that 69 isn’t just number?
14- on average, how many sexual partners does a Moroccan have?
15- what’s the nature of sex life within married Moroccan couples?
etc.

I am not aware of any sort of study that reveals the nature and scope of Moroccan sex practices?

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8:12 pm    May 4, 2009

ghalya houbbi message
2
One comment only?...Where is everyobody??? lol Thanks Adnane.

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4:35 pm    May 4, 2009

Adnane Ben. message
1
This has always been a tough question to answer and discuss in a rational way. I personally do not have a good answer. I don't know even where to start. Gays are a minority in the world, and they are everywhere, and what's intriguing is that there seems to be no correlation between corruption of societies and homosexuality. Or is there? See, I told you I don't have an answer.
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ghalya houbbi's notes (1)
 
2009
Homosexuality in Morocco...Men only allowed??..


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