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Adnane Ben.
Boston USA
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Ibnou Roshd (Averroes) 1126-1198
12:00:00 AM Tuesday Jan 7, 2003

Abu Alwalid Ibnou Ahmada Ibnou Mohammada Ibnou Ahmada Ibnou Roshd: a philosopher, doctor, scholar, and a great contributor to the Malikia Fiqh. Ibnou Roshd was born in Cordoba in a familly renowned for justice and wisdom; his grandfather held the seat of the Cadi of Cadis of Andalucia (The judge of all judges). He was a critical commentator on the works of many scholars and thinkers before him, and he contributed immensely to science and to the Fiqh (external character, law) and to the Zouhd (internal character, behaviour). He died in Morocco. I thought a discussion about Ibnou Roshd in any way possible will be informational and intellectual for us. Feel free to express what you know of him, criticise him or shed some light on his works. Here are a few links to read if you want to get jump started on Ibnou Roshd:

The content of this page —graphics, text and other elements—is © Copyright 2007 prospective author, and Raioo, Inc., only when stated otherwise, and may not be reprinted or retransmitted in whole or in part without the expressed written consent of the publisher.

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5:16 pm    January 14, 2003

Aziz Bezza message
the muslim philosophers were always surrounded by religion,in locurance qadiabdeljabar,alghazali...ets
and up untill now in our world everything is locked by achariaa.
Ibn rushd was one of the few if not the only thinker at the time that had the moral courage to separate his thinking from religion.
If we cogitate a little bit, since the 12th centery if arabs were to unstick from the taboos,they could've been in another in our days we can't stop any thing that al oulama endorsed,polygamy is an exemple , a lot of women suffer in morocco and in our world in general from this phenomenon,and yet if moderates try to make new laws thousand of stuborns demonstrate against it.
If there is anything we can learn from ibn rushd is to draw a thick & wide line between religion and constitution.assalam.

2:53 pm    January 14, 2003
Salam all, Elfernatchi, how can you diminish the work and the life a one of the greatest Muslim thinkers of our history? The history lesson you got from your Spanish friend isn?t very accurate also the fact that he smoked or didn?t smoke pot doesn?t have anything to do with his work!
As far as we know Ibn Roushd had only one wife as for the other women who lived in society at the time, he felt great compassion and respect. Just a note: please don?t refer to us women as ?chicks? as we are also human beings.
I?ve read the messages posted here, and I think we can choose between keeping accusing the west and everybody else for our own mistakes or take some responsibility. Arabi you are so right, let us begin with us before telling others what to do. The fact is we have done nothing with our heritage; we?ve given up our philosophy, our religion as well as our faith in others and in the future. Sure we have had some great thinkers but did we follow the example they gave us? The thing is people over there don?t want us to go and preach to them what the country should be like. Any change whether in Morocco or anywhere else must take place from within. People and mentalities have to change, this will take time. It?s up to us to better the lives of those we know are in need but to expect a third world country as ours to be like the western countries we live in is just not fair and not real. Salam.

10:50 am    January 14, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
What is "negga"? I like your comments. Pot was not irregular at the time although I would not go as far as giving pot credit for the man's achievements (if in fact he indulged.)
There was a stigma attached to philosophers at the time, and many accused them of smoking pot. In fact, most people who trifled with metaphisical issues or raised exclamations about the soul or God were referred to as "Hashashin" (hashish smokers.) But I am not certain of the reliability of my memory because at this time I am speaking from memory.
Take care

8:38 am    January 14, 2003
Since the topic of the current forum was once about Ibnou Roshd, my arguments or statements will have a philosophical sense or zest if you will.
Beginning with Lhyia: Life is simply and grossly unfair and for that reason we, Arabs, call it ?A Dounya?. Some people are introduced to life in relatively easier conditions from others? yet everyone--even the son of the minister--endures the cruelty and the arrogance of life, trust me no one escapes. I find it extremely outrageous that you took away the credit from Lhssen Mounir?s achievement, as well as people with similar facts, especially that you are completely ignorant of his personal life. Lhyia, not judging others would be a great start to help ?lbled? evolve into a better and prosper stage. ?Only God can judge me only God.? 2Pac, whom, I am certain, Ibnou Roshd would have agreed with :0)
Finishing with Abdullah: looking at the issue from even a higher sight, we realize that the westerners have reached better standards in life because of their sense of community, teamwork, and unselfish mentality. The westerners too experienced some rough, harsh times yet they sacrificed personal needs for community service. Abdullah, your criticism of our beloved country may be somewhat right, but the reality check is what have you done differently to make it better? What did you offer or sacrifice for your country to contribute in its prosperity? ...etc.
Lastly, let us not get carried away by our selfishness, and let us try to fix the house in which we live and own before we rent and fix someone else?s.
Peace N Love

7:40 am    January 14, 2003
i think Ibn Roshd is cool, he's done lot of stuff with his life...i've heard he was a negga. is it true? and that he loved smoking pot, he had a slave whose only job is to bring spoof from ketama. i think that's the reason he was so brilliant. a guy i spanish guy i know told that he was also popular with the chicks.
Ibn Roshd is the man

7:00 pm    January 13, 2003
Ma fa?on de poser le probl?me n'est peut etre pas "diplomate" comme tu dis Lhyia, mais les probl?mes tels que nous les vivons au Maroc n'ont pas besoin de diplomatie pour etre r?solus, bien au contraire.Ils ont besoin de traitements radicaux.La diplomatie c'est ce qu'on nous a servi jusqu' ? pr?sent, et tu vois bien le r?sultat sur place. Je n'ai pas besoin de retourner le couteau dans la plaie. La liste est sinistre et abjecte.
Lhyia, ici en Occident, un homme, qui n'a rien de plus ou de moins que toi et moi, peut s'il le veut avec force, se r?aliser, s'accomplir parce que les talents sont recherch?s et encourag?s, il peut etre guid? par son gouvernement et pouss? jusqu'? l'accomplissement de ses esp?rances. Au Maroc, les hommes de talent sont aussi recherch?s, mais pour etre bris?s, ? moins de vouloir ramper, renoncer ? toute id?e juste, ? tout ?sprit critique et donc renoncer ? etre un homme. Nous devons nous f?liciter de pouvoir ?crire ces quelques lignes sans etre jet?s en prison, alors que c'est l'endroit l?gitime et m?ritoire pour certains tortionnaires psychopathes qui saccagent encore le pays.

2:59 pm    January 13, 2003

fender (full stop) message
....... que je suis sur sera positive........

2:57 pm    January 13, 2003

fender (full stop) message
Lhyia, abdullah :
Le sujet suit une courbe qui a ete nullement mon but. Mon commentaire sur abdullah etait juste pour lui faire sentir que ca facon de poser le sujet n'etait pas tr?s diplomate. Je vous invite pour une discussion que je suis sera d'une conclusion positive pour tout le monde sur le forum . sous le topic politics

1:15 pm    January 13, 2003
Abdulah, c est un sujet tres crucial, et c est la raison d etre refugie du Maroc, car si il est Bikhir pour nous les jeunes, on viendra pas ici faire le salop job!!! oui venant des familles simples marocaines, ayant l espoir et les competences pour changer un peu ce qu on faisit, ameliorer la situation, on commencait par des travaux de 3 a 4 eme degrees!! et les gents qui ont le MAroc bien pour eux, ils en profitent pour des bons meme ici...
En fait, j ai bien apprecie lexploit dun Marocain Ihssan Mounir, qui est devenu directeur commercial de la Boeing, mais apres avoir lu qu il est un fils a un ministre!!!! la question et l appreciattion disparue!! aucun respect pour ceux qui ont toujours eu le support de leurs ancetres,... J ai toujours combattue pour une meilleure situation de ma famille et des amis!! Vice-President et president d une assoiication d Etudiants au Maroc dans une institution de Calibre , on veut toujors etre a cote des demunis pour un bon sort!! pour ceux qui ont besoin d un Maroc Bikhir et pas pour ceux qui profitent d un Maroc en telle situation!!
J etais bien surpirs de lire que le ministre de finances: Oulalou, juste en signant le budget, il touche une somme de 450.000 USD , !!! et celui qui a annonce en 70's que le ministre doit toucher comme un prof de l universite!!!! mainenant, ils discutent dans la chambres des CHiakh( Parlement) le nouvel plan eco et social!!!!!! c est une autre moquerie!!! Abdulah, le Maroc est bikhir seulement pour les ....Kalbi Aamer !!!

2:55 pm    January 12, 2003
l'un des sujet dont tu as parl? a deja ete trait? sur raioo.
How can corruption be.. minimized in Morocco?
tu peux retrouv? ce sujet sur cette url :

2:54 pm    January 12, 2003
Assi Fender, Al Maghrib zin ou khallih hakdak! bekher! walakin zin lemmen? tourists? al foukara? al fellaha? al harraga? echabab li ma yakssabou ta rial, wala moustakbal? rah zin, walakin lemmen?

12:07 pm    January 12, 2003
moulat lhrira
si lmodire,
i posted something yesterday....could not find it today!! what happaned?
moulat lhrira

11:05 am    January 12, 2003

fender (full stop) message
Hors sujet:
Ach katkhewwar Assi Abdullah, I'm sure if you take your time surfing around, you will find what you're looking for. Walakin madir la morale l7etta 7ed, Maghrib zin ou khelih hakdak, bghiti tbeddel chi 7aja, rah khasek tbeddel nass dyalou starting with your self, t3ellem tehder a sa7bi. rah hadouk dekhlat makaynef3ouch.

2:49 pm    January 11, 2003
Submet a message related ONLY to the subject above? Long live to freedom made in Morocco! What about the trajedy of this country since 1956? Terror, corruption, emprisonnement, expropriation, exploitation of the feeble, slaverie of children and little girls employed in houses etc, the list is long. Who is going to start a real talk to get things moving?

11:48 pm    January 10, 2003
salamou alaikoum.

there is one thing that pop up in my mind when i first saw the new subject of debate.

??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ? ? ???? ? :?? ??? ???? ??? ??????? .

i think if ibnou rochd's memory lived throughout the centuries, not for muslims and arabs only but even the west, he simply took the advice and gave his best in all his actions. he treated various subjects (from fiqh, jurisprudence, alchemy and so on) and still he did well at all of them. now that's what i call a life achievement. this summarize what i have to say about ??? ???.

sadly, these days there is one thing arabs(with some exceptions ) excel in that's ??? ???.

i hope the assault on irack will be a wake up call to oumat mohamad to finally stand together as one. but wait ????? has been occupied for decades now, than maybe not.

??? ?????? ? ????? : ? ? ?????? ???????? ????? ?? ???
?????? ?? ????? ????

??? ???? ????? ??????


8:19 pm    January 10, 2003
avveroes is thought to be berber or amazigh rather than arab or persian, since berbers were the majority of muslims in andalusia back then. More importantly he was a great MUSLIM philosopher and doctor with lot of contribution to humanity!
please let me know if i need to correct any info that i just gave here.
P.S:this is for adnane, can you please open soon a discusion about the amazigh movement in morocco. thanks again you guys are doing good job!

3:08 pm    January 10, 2003
??????? ????? ? :))

1:30 pm    January 10, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
After you right click on the browser > Encoding > Remember to UNCHECK the option: Auto-Select and then choose Arabic (Windows) that way whenever you open your browser it will always view arabic written web sites in arabic, and it will also keep viewing english as english, french as french and so on...

1:26 pm    January 10, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
I got it. Thanks.

12:39 pm    January 10, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
I think this will not appear to you as Arabic: ??? ???

But if it does then good. Otherwise maybe you want to right click on your browser and change encoding to be Arabic... otherwise I would have to change the properties of Raioo to including arabic display.


12:09 pm    January 10, 2003

9:49 am    January 10, 2003
Salam alaikoum all. We don't have to quote his biography, but we could discuss some interesting parts of his work like what he wrote about Islam: Fate And predestination maybe. This is a current issue for us too as Muslims are facing some serious problems today. Is everything predestined and written in advance as some people think or are we as humans and Muslims also responsible for everything that's happening to us both personally as to Muslims around the world?

PS: If I am not mistaken Ibnou Roshd ?s origins were not Arabic but Persian. Salam to all and a 'little' salam to Arabi:)


9:32 am    January 10, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
I will try to find an online arabic keyboard that can be used on a popup window where you type the message clicking on the letters, and then copy/paste into the discussion trail. It should be somewhere out there in some of the other 100% arabic language web sites.

8:16 am    January 10, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
Notwithstanding the juiciness of current events, I find it harmless to have a discussion about a great thinker such as Ibnou Rochd. I agree with Arabi..ut that a discussion could probably focus on a specific aspect of his life, otherwise it could turn into a bio recitation (I'll be first to acknowlegde my guilt.) I could propose a discussion of his litterature concerning the works of Ghazali, which would probably throw us into a discussion of Ghazali's life where the internal struggles have been more pronouned and more documented. Alas, interest will have to drive the conversation. So perhaps, current events is the way to go.

A quick question to Adnane: is it possible to type these messages in Arabic as well? Do I need a special software for that or is there a Microsoft add-in that can make that possible?



7:32 am    January 9, 2003
Ibnou Roush a dit:
"Quiconque parmi les musulmans qui tuent d'autres musulmans suite ? de mauvaises interpr?tations, comme par exemple les Khawarijs qui tu?rent des compagnons du Messager d'Allah (SAS) apr?s avoir jet? sur eux la m?cr?ance, ne sont pas m?cr?ants pour nous car ils ont interpr?t? le texte Qur'anique. Il faut savoir que le m?cr?ant est celui qui refuse la v?rit? quand elle lui est apport?e et non pas suite ? une mauvaise interpr?tation."

Wa Salam from Munich City
Your ibno Rouchd J
(Bidayat El Moujtahid Tome 2/458)


7:24 am    January 9, 2003
Assalmou 3laykoum Wa Rahmtou !
@RaiooTeam :-)!

je vous remercie beaucoup d?avoir panser ? l ?un des grand g?nie de la civilisation andalou musulmans Al 3lama Ibnou Rouchd Rahimhou Allah qui ? travers de son Duel avec Al 3lama L?hujat Al Islam Abi Ahmed Al Ghazahli Rahimahou Allah.

Je suis dans ?-phase de ma publication(Papers) en arabe, espagnole, allmande s?r un livre tr?s rare ? Mi3yar Al 3lim Fi Fan Al Mantiq? ?es critaires scientifiques dans l ?arts de la logique ???!?
consernat le duell (Ibno Roush, Al Ghazali) mais dans new-Modell bon il sagit d?une pr?sentation p?rment mathematique

also Reasoning br Contributions to the theory of logic programming :-)!

Une fois termin?e Inscha Allah vous aurez bien s?r une copie de ma parts
Ich w?nsche euch alles gute & Aufwiedersehen

Wa Salam from Munich City
Your ibno Rouchd J

P.S: n.p.o Bravo pour le Design votre site c?est tr?s authentique 100% made in Al Maghreb


6:48 am    January 10, 2003
Ibnou Roshd as a subject of conversation is most definitely a great idea. On the other hand Adnane, I think that there is absolutely no room for an exciting debate there. We don?t want to recite Ibno Roshd?s biography, which people can clearly read on their own.
Instead, let?s bring up some of his work that might trigger our interest in elaborating over it, or better yet let?s just open up a new discussion about a current event that perturbs people?s minds nowadays. (Hence, Iraq and Palestine issue Vs our responsibility to them as Arabs with the same heritage).

NB: Ibno Roshd as well as all the rest of Arab scholars shape our history, heritage, and therefore our identity. So how can we not be proud of being Arabs, of speaking Arabic and enjoying the extravagance of our everlasting culture?

Peace N Love


8:43 pm    January 9, 2003
c'est tout ce que tu as trouv? ? nous faire partager avec ce grand penseur: les assassinats????

it's sad(


2:26 pm    January 7, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
Thanks Arabi for forwarding the message, and regards to ahmed from Spain!

1:57 pm    January 7, 2003
Yes this is not related to the subject but I feel the need to do this first.
I recently received this appreciation letter from one of Raioo's admirers. This letter is not meant for me since I didn?t put any effort in making this Forum. Therefore, I am forwarding the following e-mail to Adnane and his helpers who truly deserve it:

"Je suis tres content de vous contacter,d'ici d'Espagne,car votre site est tres sympa.merci pour les services que vous administrez.Continuez comme ?a.ciao


11:16 am    January 7, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
Ibnou Rouchd's contributions extend far beyond Maliki fiqh. He wrote extensively both explanations and critiques of Socratese and Aristotle books, check out his book on Aristotle's "De Anima" (on the soul). He focused a great deal of his attention on the works of Aristotle, trying to use a logical approach to establishing the existence of God. He was an accomplished astronomer and wrote voluminousely on logic and metaphisics. Unfortunately, the end of the Moors era resulted in the burning of his books in the latter two areas so little is left of the school of thought he led. Arabic civilization did not inherit much of his books, which were translated into hebrew and Latin in Europe where they made an everlasting mark on Christian thought.
Ibnou Rouchd also wrote many replies to the books of Al Ghazali. Check out his book "tahafout Attahafout" which was a reply to Al Ghazali's "tahafoutou L'oulama'".
He established major landmarks in Islamic jurisprudence and dealt with highly complex issues such as Riba. I also think that he wrote on medical research. If I remember correctly his book was called "Koullyaat" and remains a landmark of human thought.
Well, I won't write more about his bio because I am sure you can find more about him on the internet. I do envy the era in which he lived, however; an era that allowed free spirited thinkers to analyze the most taboo of subjects.

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Le Bachir ..
Cheb Mami.. L'ancien :) Pas Le Nouveau :(..
Summer Hidden Stress..
Fanfaraï - Rai Cuivre !..
Darouha Biya Mchaw L'Mekka w'Khallawni..
Zoo Event Organized by Al Huda..
Navigating post-divorce..
Just what is Civic Engagement?..
To Fly Boston <-> Morocco or Not..
Meetings with Moroccan Consultative Council on Human Rights..
J'irais dormir chez vous au Maroc..
Support Morocco Autonomy Initiative to solve the Sahara issu..
Les Frères Zergui..
On the Word "Plethora"..
When The Moors Ruled In Europe..
Ya Rassoul..
BARRAKA duet Cheb Khaled & Chebba Zahouania..
Cheba Zohra & Mahadattes de Rilizane..
SKyouz Me While I Light My Spliff!..
HAMIDOU, Algeria's Playboy!..
First mnanauk. Then mahdisean!..
Karima Skalli, Nassima et Leila Hejaiej..
Rym Hakiki: Matsalni Ma Ansalek..
The Road To Guantanamo..
Matejebdoulich by Djenet..
Cuban Chaabi! Guantanamera!!..
Hadj Menouer: El Batoul !..
Parske Ana Nebghi Wahran Bezzaf!..
I declare Moe a Star!..
Ahl Zin El Fassi!..
Morocco on current TV..
My South Park Character!..
Ummah Films on !! HELP NEEDED..
Ana Smayti Sa3id!..
Al-Hawli Jokes..
Zawiya Qadiriya Boudchichiya Open Air Speech..
US Patent by Sa Majeste H. Roi du Maroc..
Jahh Bless Mon! Feeling down to earth tonight!..
Cannot Believe These Idiots!..
NESS LA CITY: All?e Sans Retour! LOL..
When Lotfi Attar Rides Matabkish wave! You Lissann mon!..
KUDOS TO Cheikh Sidi Bemol & Band!!..
No Comment! DARRITOUNI.....
Mortality Meets Online Status..
Michael Richard Busted and Sorry!..
The UMMA Clinic..
Hanane Fadili Take on Shouaffa(tt)..
Hijab: Strict Code or Fashion Barcode ..
To The Fasting Darling..
Rimitti: Ana Li Ghrasset aNakhla....
Reminiscing Tex Avery Cartoons!..
Happiest Guy in Morocco!..
The Super-cool Hanane Fadili..
Cette Affaire d'Avions ? Londres..
Watch 2M Television..
American Muslim Fun Video Blogging!..
Open War in the Middle East?..
Touche Po a Mon Zidane!..
Ronaldinho Joined Zawya....
Draw Live!..
Zoo Animals Need e'space..
Les ABRANIS: Prodigy of Rockabyl..
Sofiane Saidi: Cet Algerien Trip-rai Hopper..
Lemchaheb Legacy ..
Zahra Hindi, Beautiful You!..
Jajouka's Winds of Moroccana..
Google Language Translation: English to/from Arabic..
Aziz Mekouar, Ambassador of the Kingdom of Morocco to the US..
Google Shoots Microsoft.. One.. More.... Time!..
Monsieux Mehdi Ben Barka: Un Marocain Assassiné Qui Visait P..
Yale, Taliban and Weld L'Hashemi....
Near-eastern Muslim Scholars..
Three Algerians on Highway =]..
Moroccan Riverdance!..
Moroccan Candle-toe Dance..
Moroccan Qassida: Vraie Poesie!..
LA3MARNA Legacy..
Chilling Like a Mqedem in Morocco..
Alone in the Wilderness..
Are Iranians and Americans Blowing it Up?..
Are we a virus..?..
How come Morocco is silent to Dalfour, Sudan?..
Barreling Towards an Iraqi Civil War..
Pomme and Kelly ..
Intelligent Design and Evolution in not so American lands..
The Prophets animated by Steve Whitehouse..
More with Claudio Bravo..
Muslim Texans..
Hajj Stampede Gone Ugly!..
Self-portraits 001-002..
Why Faith?..
Online 7awli Souk!..
2006 !..
Derbouka Bled Attack..
Adopted HIV kids from Romania..
Operation Mapping Raioo Love!..
They burnt themselves.. Come'on!..
My Winamp Skin: The New Beetle..
The Forbidden Zone film that electrified me!..
Cousins skyblogging..
Chilean artist in Morocco..
Moroccan Blue tops colors!..
Osama in FAMILY GUY..
Baraka Art..
Itsy Bitsy knowledge..
The most misunderstood [and growing..] world religion, Islam..
Moroccan Christians..
Polygamy in USA..
Architecturing to joy!..
This Moorish cult in America..
The Magnificient King Vulture..
Al-Rashid and the Fart..
On the subject of Evil Eye..
Anecdote on Life and 3ibada..
Anecdote on Giving in Time of Need..
T-shirt design: L'Amoureux!..
Craig Thompson art..
The Real Origin of Smileys :)..
T-shirt design: Happy Sailor!..
T-shirt design: threadless in Kufi..
T-shirt design: Magic e-lamp..
My August '05 T-shirt Designs ..
Your Living Space..
The Raioo Story: 2. in the garden..
The Raioo Story: 1. intro..
Arabic Beat and Instrument Music Wanted!..
RA?NA RAI Legacy..
Algerian Chaabi..
Nour L'Koufi (Gharnati)..
Hidalgo in Morocco..
Le Secret d'Elissa Rhais..
Imam Shafii. Soni N'nafssa..
Feqqas (Moroccan Biscuiti)..
Casablanca Connect..
ZEBDA! Un Groupe Genial!..
Al Moutanabbi. Idha Ghamarta..
Imam Shafii. sa'fir tajid 3iwada..
Long Distance Honey ..
The Working Wife and Husband..
The Hammam Public Bath: Do you still go there?..
Hip Hop Classic Favorites!..
Down With Love..
Lord Of The Rings..
How To create a Moroccan remix of a video clip ? ..
Why we don't eat Porc?..
Do You Play Music?..
Hidoura: Your Moroccan Natural Carpet..
Khaddouj Slam-dunking From Marrakesh To New York..

Hmida Rass Lmida à L'Avare de Molière!
Moroccan City Names
Shining ability is a gift...
Halloween SPECIAL 2007: La Mort D'une Souri!
Cheikha Rimitti: 83 Years of Life...
Why do we pray ?
short ones
ABSOLUTE RAIOO Summer 2007 Rai vol.2
Cheba Zohra & Mahadattes de Rilizane
Close Encounters of the Moroccan Kind!
Another attempt at writing. Will this language ever feel natural?
North Africa Journal
Moroccan Tattoos
From Los Angeles to Casablanca!
Amina Alaoui Lyrics
Dr. Hassan Al-Turabi
Vulgarity as revolution: Lemsakh we tsalguit
Les Oiseaux De Figuig!
ghir bessyas a moulay!
Moroccan Playing Cards Game ronda v1.0
A Call From Algeria to Help Suffering Little Boy Mounib!

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