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Adnane Ben.
Boston USA
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53
comments.
Secular France Unveiling The Veil
12:00:00 AM Thursday Dec 18, 2003



Proposed by ahmad from sunderland

Jacques Chirac ignored strong criticism from leaders of France's six million Muslims yesterday and called for legislation barring the Islamic headscarf and other conspicuous religious signs from state schools.

The French Council of the Muslim Faith called the president's decision "disastrous". It is afraid that this and other steps to restrict Islamic practices will worsen race relations.

Related Links:

France debates place of religion in society - ENI
Chirac seeks law to ban headscarves - The Boston Globe

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12:24 am    January 3, 2004

Adnane Ben. message
53
Did this law get passed in France? is anyone following this news more closely?
·

5:02 am    December 31, 2003
Mr.No
52
51
Correct :

While many of them would NOT let the house maid around the house when the husband is present alone.. .
Talk about being a vicious hypocrit !

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5:00 am    December 31, 2003
Mr.No
51
50
I have heard that in Morocco, and especially in working places many ladies who wear the veil put pressure on the ladies who do not, and persuade them to cover their heads by intimidating them, (not shaking their hands, reminding them of Hell and stuff of that sort )
In otherwords, they consider them less than muslims.
While many of them would let the house maid around the house when the husband is present .
Talk about being a vicious hypocrit !
Many of those veiled ladies are married with beared guys, and they talk on the behalf of their husbands.
Some of them even oppose "Modawana" wich forbids the marriage to under aged girls, and having more than one wife.
stating that we are drifting away from the teaching of the prophete.
Burka type of dresses can already be seen in Morocco (with black gloves covering the hands) .
I let you imagine what would be their reaction if they would be asked about their ID card in banks or foir what ever legal reason...
My understanding is, a veil doesnt make a woman no better nor worse than a none covered woman, what counts are the deeds and behaviour .
Covering the head with a scarf, of wearing a blue jeans comes easy.
what is important is that the society should not be fragmented into
"holy" and "non holy" individuals, because that causes social distress.

Wear what you wish, but mind you own business...you freedom end where the other person's freedom starts...

Wa Salam


·

5:48 pm    December 20, 2003
anti_Islamist
50
Did you know that cursing is un-islamic and totally haram. May Allah chop your balls you little punk islamist monkey.
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5:17 pm    December 20, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
49
48
First Warning: Hey pal, You've written posts 39, 40, 41 and 48. How about you stick to one nickname, second you avoid attacking contributors with names, third you write a concise subject that describes what your post is all about instead of copying/pasting the main subject of this topic. Hope this will help, if you have any concerns let me know privately: adnane at raioo dot com
·

5:03 pm    December 20, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
fi
48
they did not see it as a hurdle when they occopied the maghreb and invaded us u stupid bastard
·

4:08 pm    December 20, 2003
anti-Islamist
47
Hijab is seen by many french as an assault on their traditional values. They see it as an evidence of an Islamic invasion of France.
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8:12 am    December 20, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
46
Aziz, I think I am just sensitive nowadays to the fact that Islam is not respected as much as it used to be before. When it comes to Chirac's push for the ban of religious symbols in state schools, I don't see that as a reasonable request to the Muslim community to be "flexible", but rather a direspectful request, an attempt to attenuate the religious liberty. If the French people do not hold religion and spirituality as one of their values, the "French" Muslims do. If you're asking them to assimilate you can't be changing their values, especially when they don't hurt you. Which leads me to my earlier questions: how does Hijjab really hurt state schools? and why is it condemned as a threat to secularism by Chirac?

I also speak my opinion in light of how USA and Canada handle this liberty. Religious symbols are not banned anywhere in America, except when you're taking photographs for use in official documentation.

·

7:15 am    December 20, 2003

Aziz Bezza message
45
36
I just don't understand your linkage between pride and the debate about the veil. This particular discourse may or may not lead to an agreement among the Muslim community throughout the world. Your controversial arguments are landing heavily on the French goverment. Iwonder if you are looking to the other side of this issue, or your strong feelings(which don't reflect any pride by the way) are preserving you from doing so.
"Stay a proud Muslim" of course Adnane and I salute you for saying that,I/m very content about my berber/arab/Islamic heritage,it makes me stronger in the face of any kind of human being on this planet,yet flexible and willing to change in a moral way to suit my hosting society.
·

4:52 am    December 20, 2003

abdelilah message
44
Allah a weddi a Sofia ne3li chitaan. Premierement je suis contre toute forme d'oppression et de revocation des libertes publiques. Ceci dit, le voile dans son essence, choisi librement par ceux qui le mettent et non impose d'en haut, reste un symbole moral et spirituel prone par toutes les religions. As tu deja vu une image de la vierge Marie sans voile?
La jupe moulante qui rend la femme un objet est aussi un signe d'oppression. Les Francais sont libres de choisir leurs lois, mais je ne pense pas que le voile soit un signe d'oppression. Tu sais bien aussi chere Sophia que l'obscurantisme peut se manifester chez des gens que l'on trouve dans des cercles assez soutenus.
·

4:43 am    December 20, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
rep
43
seul l islam reignera ce n est qu un test d ALLAH peut peut faire trombler les montagnes ,Chirac joue avec le feu et ca peut le bruler .
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4:09 am    December 20, 2003
sexyso
42
Je hais dans le voile islamique tout ce qu'il symbolise: le pouvoir des males et des religieux, leur peur des femmes, leur culpabilisation du desir, du plaisir, de la libert?....Je crois que le gouvernement francais veut se battre contre ce signe d'oppression sociale qu'est le voile. je suis d'accord c'est contre la libert? de choix, mais c'est une maniere de faire sortir les jeunes musulmans de leur obscurantisme et donc d'eviter le pire.....
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1:10 am    December 20, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
hg
41
Secular But the view from abroad was also mixed. In Egypt, Mohammed Sayed Tantawi, grand sheik of al-Azhar University, one of Sunni Islam's most important centers of learning, said any country had the right to pass laws it deemed necessary. France Unveiling The Veil
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1:07 am    December 20, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
hg
40
Chirac also called on his social affairs minister to begin consulting businesses about whether to introduce a law that would also allow workplaces to ban head scarves and other overt religious symbols. That would require changing the current work code's anti-discrimination provision, which now forbids firing or disciplining employees for religious reasons.
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1:02 am    December 20, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
hg
39
PARIS, Dec. 19 -- At a Tunisian bakery in a heavily Muslim neighborhood on the north side of Paris, a middle-aged woman with her head covered in an immaculate white head scarf shrugged off the news that President Jacques Chirac wants a new law banning Muslim head scarves from public schools. \"It\'s normal,\" she said. \"School should be a place of equality.\"



The reaction was the same from the Algerian vendor at the local kebab shop. \"Everything has its place,\" he said. \"Religion is private and should stay at home.\"

·

9:25 pm    December 19, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
38
37
Adnane,so what make you believe that you're such a role model for all moroccans to follow ??
And by the way,your opinion about France or the French people is irrelevant.

Huh?! where did that come from all of a sudden? may you please make yourself clearer.

·

9:08 pm    December 19, 2003
anti-Islamist
37
The majority of moroccans are moderate in their religious practice,they're proud of their arab and muslim background, but also respect the culture of the host country.Only a tiny minority of extremists are making a big deal the "hijab" or le "torchon ".They're the real trouble makers who give Islam a bad image.Chirac is simply doing what the voters want him to do :clean France of all those who cannot assimilate themselves into the mainstrean french society.In a democracy the majority rule,as simple as that.
Adnane,so what make you believe that you're such a role model for all moroccans to follow ??
And by the way,your opinion about France or the French people is irrelevant.
·

7:25 pm    December 19, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
36
33
No.

In addition, I believe we should be aware of France's intentions here.

I believe there is a difference between correcting a misunderstanding of some Islam practices in the familly core, and banning Islam symbols so that others don't get influenced by it and start showing interest in Islam. Chirac fears the latter. He doesn't want the headscarves some teenage Muslim girls wear in schools to make other students be interested in Islam. It is loud and clear.

France, and Europe in general all share this sentiment. I'm sure the question of headscarves is also in debate in Germany. Maybe not at the same national level as France. One thing in common between European nations which breeds this fear from Islam, is the tribalism of Europeans. Every European want to belong to his/her own race. French people exhbit the most of this sentiment. So to have such foreign masses growing in their countries, which happens to be Muslim, which happens to be this century's uneasy headline, is Europe's scariest nightmare.

I hate it when french people claim that they want immigrants to assimilate. I believe France never wanted immigrants to assimilate culturally, not to mention bring in their religion.

It's funny how France takes advantage of "Islamic terrorism" to push for this ban. When they talk to the US they'd say we're combatting growing fanatics by banning headscarves and religious symbols, when they talk to the immigrants they say we're secular and you don't want to assimilate with us, so we'll force you to.

I just don't want Moroccans to fall in this trap, and get misled into changing their identity... Stay a proud Moroccan if you are one, and stay a proud Muslim if you are one.

·

5:14 pm    December 19, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
y
35
Toute la complexit? du d?bat se cristallise sur la question du port du voile ? l'?cole. Si une majorit? des Fran?ais (58 %) se dit favorable ? son interdiction, l'opinion - en fait - est tr?s divis?e sur le sujet. Des r?ponses diam?tralement oppos?es ? celles qu'avait donn?es un simple ?chantillon de Fran?ais musulmans dans une enqu?te Ipsos/Le Figaro effectu?e au d?but d'avril 2003. R?sum? de toute l'ambigu?t? d'un dossier qui - en fait - en contient trois : l'islam, l'immigration et l'int?gration...
·

5:14 pm    December 19, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
y
34
Toute la complexit? du d?bat se cristallise sur la question du port du voile ? l'?cole. Si une majorit? des Fran?ais (58 %) se dit favorable ? son interdiction, l'opinion - en fait - est tr?s divis?e sur le sujet. Des r?ponses diam?tralement oppos?es ? celles qu'avait donn?es un simple ?chantillon de Fran?ais musulmans dans une enqu?te Ipsos/Le Figaro effectu?e au d?but d'avril 2003. R?sum? de toute l'ambigu?t? d'un dossier qui - en fait - en contient trois : l'islam, l'immigration et l'int?gration...
·

4:52 pm    December 19, 2003

Aziz Bezza message
33
32
adnane,
Do you approve on banning headscarf at least till the age of puberty?
to send a message to parents.
·

3:53 pm    December 19, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
32
31
Aziz, in Islam as you probably know, it is only when a girl's body starts to show signs of puberty that it is "encouraged" to ponder wearing clothes that protect her from men's instant desires (they get ugly). If a familly is making a little girl wear the headscarf for religious purposes then this familly doesn't know enough about Islam and should be corrected. It is not Chiraq who will enlighten them.

The debate over headscarves for Muslim women is old, rehashed and ongoing in Muslim countries themselves. Yet, in Morocco for example, a woman is allowed to make her choices: wear the headscarf or not. This works fine.

But a ruler of a republic is making a clear cut to ban wearing the headscarf, a personal expression, manifests to me as an act of hypocrisy given that "Liberte" is the first commandment of La Republiqe Francaise.

I believe France is still confused about the place of religion in the country. So much about the love of Secularism. The quest for the ideal system of state and governnance is still ongoing I guess. I have to say I give credit to the USA for keeping the balance of religion, state and freedom sound so far.

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3:32 pm    December 19, 2003

Aziz Bezza message
31
29
adinano : )
i'm talking about very young girls 6 to teen. I'm not blaming Islam and i'll never do such a thing, i promise you adnane in front allah : )
it also has nothing to do with french mentality when we talk about kids.
kids don't have the wisdom to think or to make sens about respecting ones background,they rather fantasize about it. ok i hope you are following me : ) so the victims of such behavior get hurt and badly.
after all a little girl that puts foular doesn't know a bit about its purpose, her parents are mainly responsable for that.
·

3:01 pm    December 19, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
30
Actually, does anyone know how did the Jewish people in France react to this?

Is there any opposition, grass-root by the french people regarding this?

I'll be curious to read articles if you know of any. Thanks.

·

2:55 pm    December 19, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
29
27
If a girl is alienated it is not Islam's fault. If she feels she is doing whate makes her feel good then she doesn't have to change just to please people around her laden with prejudice. If a french purposely alienates a girl because she wears a headscarf then there is something wrong with that French. Chiraq should be correcting the mindset of these types of French people, instead of opening a can of worms.
·

2:35 pm    December 19, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
abd
28
special khutba by qaradawi about the situation in france after Chirac speech ,www.qaradawi.net
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2:28 pm    December 19, 2003

Aziz Bezza message
27
26
The decision targets Muslims by all
means,but if you weigh the positive outcome of all this discourse verusus whatever offense Muslims can take.We may end up satisfied
particularly when it comes to young
girls that always feel alienated in a
very early age as a result of wearing
the hardscarf.
·

1:53 pm    December 19, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
26
It's actually becoming a game, especially when I read Chiraq saying something along the lines of we can allow the display of small chritian crosses, or small stars of david :) unfortunately for Muslims there are not small head scarves, or small heads :P

Technically, France can define any rules it wishes on Muslims living in France, and Muslims who still wish to stay there they have to abide. But we're talking here about reasonable rules that maintains the French secularism while preserving religions, and all in all smoothen the integration of Muslims in France.

I still believe this is one of France's first steps to chase Muslims away from France. I may be wrong.

·

12:20 pm    December 19, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
25
24
Wa3a goulli dakhelna 3leek bellah wach kate9rra dakechi wella lla???
rah l 9aradaoui machi gal fetwa..... rah he said that in today`s jum3a prayer.., just his Opinion...
·

12:02 pm    December 19, 2003
Iceman
24
Yousef 9aradawi has no authority over the french government.Fatwa is just a matter of opinion not law that can be enforced.In France the highist authority is the french Constitution not the Coran.
·

11:42 am    December 19, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
23
16
Adnane,
I said they can create Rules to do that, witch means they don`t do it....

Iceman,
I f you look carefully u can see that i just said what tantaoui said, didn`t say my opinion about it....

Your definitions of Good and Bad Muslims are simply WRONG.....

Hijab is a Fard , and Muslims who say that HIJAB is not a Must in Islam , then they are not Muslims,
Because they are denying Allah`s word, no difference between that who say slaah is not Fard and that who say hijab is not fard...

N.B
Yusouf 9aradaoui said that alazhar and tantaoui are wrong to say what ever they said, because France should not do such thing.....
http://www.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2003/12/12-19-7.htm

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11:07 am    December 19, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
22
20
What's Hijjab got to do with state schools? in which way does hijjab disrupt state schools? in which way does hijjab distrupt secularism in France anyways? Why is Hijjab viewed as a threat to secularism?

The only time America asks you to remove your hijjab or yarmulke is when taking official photos (passport etc)

So what's next for Chiraq, ban the beard? ban the Belgha?

·

10:30 am    December 19, 2003
Casawi79
21
I don't see why is it a huge issue for france since tunisia have been doing it for a long time now and what's even worst is tunisia is a muslim country!!!
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10:25 am    December 19, 2003
Iceman
20
You guys are unbelievable, it's not up to to decide,it's up to the french people to decide if they want to have hijabi girls in their public schools or not,they're the taxpayers who pay for those schools. Why can't you understand that?????
Before telling France what it should do and what it shouldn't ,first you need to clean your own backyard You can't even vote for the head of state in your country. In the whole Islamic world there's not one single democratically elected government.
Seriousely,who do you think you're kidding?
·

10:06 am    December 19, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
19
I've read some more articles about this religious debate in France. Even if Chiraq wants to make it look like he is making a balance bwteen Muslims, Jews and Chritians, he is failing. The panel that proposed the ban to him declare that Islam is the second growing religion in France, and that fanaticism is building up. For them the symbol of a Muslim wearing a headscarf illustrates that she is either fanatic or lives in a fanatic home.

I don't deny that there are Muslim fanatics in France, and that they ought to be corrected (difficult endeavour), but banning headscarf is the wrong approach. You're making more fanatics Mr. Chiraq.

Also, he says that the law should give companies the right to ban headscarf on their Muslim employees especially in customer contact. Do you think this is fair? Why hire her in the first place?

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10:04 am    December 19, 2003
Iceman
18
Nego
Which Muslims you talking about? They're mayn kind of Muslims,the good,the bad,and the ugly. The good Muslims who are the mojority don't insist on the hijab. The bad Muslim are the so-called moderate Islamist like the PJD who that hijab is "fard" and the government should enforce it by law.Then you have the ugly Muslims the hard-core fanatics who think they should take the law in their own hand and submit everyone to Chari3a law by force.
So what kind of Muslim are you man?
·

9:54 am    December 19, 2003
madPC
17
15
Tantaoui is a retarded puppy. He doen't have the backgroung nor the balls to defend Islam. He's only a hypocrite and a coward, just like those who's offered him the position.
Sheikh Al Azhar, Mufti AlJumhuria, Amir Al Muminine, Hami Al millati waddine, Hami Al haramaine. All these stupid titles, most of which are self-assigned revealed nothing but inefficiency of those who hold them. Shame on them all.
·

9:50 am    December 19, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
16
15
But Muslims schools don't do that, do they?

Garcia, but I am pretty sure many of these Muslim women who wear the headscraf in French schools, including their familly, will look at it as an offense, and will approach it in a defensive way rather than a pragmatic way... at least initially. Eventually, they may give up their practice of wearing the headscarf just to satisfy the most important need of getting education. But still, there will always be that grudge.

Or is this Chiraq's new approach of sending North Africans back to their home, and (note: satire ahead) claim back Barbes?

·

9:37 am    December 19, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
15
Tantaoui said that France has the Right to do that, because it`s their country and their schools, so the schools create the rules they see .

Just like the Muslims can create their rules as well, and ban Grils entering schools with No Hijab....

·

9:37 am    December 19, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
14
Does this law say that women should not wear the head scarf, or that they should not cover their heads?

Also, head scarfs were popular in the fifities and sixties. If they come back in fashion would they be banned or they are only banned as an expression of religious belief?

I also have these questions for the shari3a scholars out there: is a ski hat considered proper head cover? If a woman has very short hair (shorter than my balding scalp) does she need to cover her hair?

Thanks.

In my opnion this decision should be positive for Muslism women because it'll push them to think about the scarf issue in a more pragmatic way and maybe even to adapt their interpretations of text.

·

7:23 am    December 19, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
13
12
I think France is making a big mistake by banning headscraf and disrupting the personal religious belief of its people. I feel disgusted. The French should be wise enough, after many years of experience with North Africans, that what counts the most is the woman's will to learn and to work honestly. Creating obstacles for Muslim women takes France many steps backward.

I wonder if this has anything to do with how the French are "picky" people?

·

6:23 am    December 19, 2003
madPC
12
11
Re your last paragraph:
Yes it is sad to note that most Western leaders have tasted the flesh of khenifra. With all due respect to this city and its population. This is where virgin and innocent girls are kidnapped and offered to the king's guest (French diplomats, US senators and goernors, jewish business partners and all kind of weirdos) to show the arab karam. This has made many Westerners believe that our women are cheap. THUS, Chirac's decision was also motivated by this.
Anybody recalls any time our governement has issued a direct or indirect request to the western countries to respect Moroccan immigrants?

Salam

·

5:48 am    December 19, 2003

abdelilah message
11
Iceman you said:

I think those women who insist on wearing the hijab in non-islamique countries,are just hypocrites. Because if they follow the Coran 100%,they're not supposed to live in the land of the "kuffars".

So would you say by th esame logic that those who wear mini-skirts we top lli kaybeyyen lbout in Muslim countries are also hypocrites because the "kuffars" do not live in Muslim lands?

Be careful of this logic. I agree that it is uo tp the French citizens to rule in this matter and Muslims are hosts in those countries as long as they do not become a majority. But then France has to stop bullshitting us about Egalite and Fraternite. Remember what they did to Roger Garaudy and L'abbe Pierre. The Zionist lobby is quite strong in France.

I think that France's secular mania is behind this arm twisting. And the Muslim leaders friends of Chirac should do more here. Yallah kharrjou lebsatel dyalkoum we nezzlou leeh chalotte dyal 3ain dyab we khnifra.

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5:17 am    December 19, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
samir
10
Des rapports effectu?s occasionnellement pointent du doigt les jeunes immigr?s marocains. Preuve ? l?appui, la population carc?rale compte 80% d?immigr?s marocains. ? Amsterdam comme ? Rotterdam, deux grandes villes n?erlandaises, ?les plaintes d?agression et vol accusant des jeunes se font nombreuses", note un rapport, nouvellement publi?.
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5:06 am    December 19, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
said
9
Publicly, the United States maintained neutrality during the eight-year Iran-Iraq war, which began in 1980.

Privately, however, the administrations of Reagan and George H.W. Bush sold military goods to Iraq, including poisonous chemicals and deadly biological agents, worked to stop the flow of weapons to Iran, and undertook discreet diplomatic initiatives, such as the two Rumsfeld trips to Baghdad, to improve relations with Hussein.

·

4:53 am    December 19, 2003
madPC
8
Before Chirac made his decision, he had definitetly consulted with the "muslim leaders" and had their OK, which he was expecting anyways. He knows them perfectly. He knows that our corrupt leaders have no faith in Allah and give no damn about the dignity of other muslims. He saw them worshiping sex and drugs. That's their God. During a visit in France, H2 ( may Allah roast his bones in hell) ordered this Moroccan girl to attend school without wearing her hijab.
By the way, the issue and target are actually Islam and hijab. Stating the kippa or other religious objects is nothing but bullshit. It is exactly what Bush did when he included N Corea in the axis of evil. He only meant the muslim countries.
We are witnessing again how France, just like most of the West ignores the basics of human rights, which include freedom of religion.
I have 3 suggestions:
1. Ban all Western women living in muslim countries from wearing skirts and other provocative attire.
2. All French muslims should get together in masses and hit the road back to their countries of origin. This is the best way to make those dictators, friends of Chirac, react and have their Godfather change his minds.
3. Pray Allah to assit muslims.
Even after what happened to Saddam. The only way for the Arab/muslim leaders to wake up is to experience the same tragic faith.
Inna Allaha shadidu Al intiqam.

Salam and sorry for the long post.

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4:52 am    December 19, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
habib
7
we all remember FRANCOIS MITTERAND ,he said as long as i am the president of FRANCE i will never allow a muslim state in europe he said that during the genocide in bonia , same mentality different presindents ,brothers make no mistake we will prevail.
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11:01 pm    December 18, 2003
Iceman
6
France has a tradition of secularism,the poll show a majority favor a ban of headscarf in schools or government offices.In a democracy the majority rule. When in Rome do as the Romans do.It dosen't matter if those hijabis girls were born in France,they still have to obey the law of the land.Can you go to Saudi Arabia and insist on practicing any other religion than Isalm? Of course not,that's the holy land of Islam.Same thing inFrance secularism is a sacred tenet of the Republic.Beside the governemt is not stopping anyone from practicing religion in their home or mosque. They just don't want religion in public places that are financed by taxpers money.Muslims problably make less that 1% of the population.When Muslims become a majority in France then they can make it an Islamique Republique de France with Chri3a law and all the nonsense that come with it.Then it will be the end of civilisation as we know it.
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10:10 pm    December 18, 2003
Tarik
5
3
hi
freedom is to let people what they want as long as it doesn't hurt others... I don't see how hijab hurts other people in France.. whether they are hypocrits ( as you said) or not.. that's irrelevant.. let them do wat they want. .. secularisim is not to rule with religion not to eliminate religions..
i agree with you that there are a lot of muslims of the type you described, but not all are like that .. you should seperate issues, this is about letting or not letting people wear hijab not about fighting extreamisim

lata

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10:10 pm    December 18, 2003
Achraf
4
Mr Iceman..Who told you that these sisters are not following the Quran 100% and that they are not supposed to live in France as an example..The prophet PBUH did not tell us not to live with Christians or Jews where did you read that?I understand that you consider them Kuffar but how? based on what my freind? if it is correct than wahy are you living in the US? you might tell me I am not following the Quran 100% then I have to tell you my freind that Islam is not some laws that you follow whichever you like and leave the ones you dont like...
It is correct that these women can simply go to where they are from if they do not like it, but what if they are from France where do they go? as you know being a muslim does not mean that you are from an Arab contry! there are so many muslims that are originaly from France where do they go..
one more thing Hijab is not an auxilary thing it is important and obligatory just like anything else..
Wa salamo alaikom
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7:55 pm    December 18, 2003
Iceman
3
I think those women who insist on wearing the hijab in non-islamique countries,are just hypocrites. Because if they follow the Coran 100%,they're not supposed to live in the land of the "kuffars".These hijabis women are not just normal muslim,they're militants islamists.And the french pple have the right to see them as enemies combattants because their aggressive way of imposing this exaggerated islamic identity on everyone.In the Coran ,you're supposed to fight the infidels whenever you find them and all that kind of nonsense really scare people.
·

6:56 pm    December 18, 2003

Aziz Bezza message
2
The French decision to ban religious symbols,including headscarf, from state schools do not restrict Islamic practices as mentioned above.
Public schools in France are state funded, therefore whoever needs to exhibit religion, should find a private establishment for that.
secularism has kept a relatively healthy diversity in France as well as many other democracies.
In my view it is a positive step toward helping assimilate the Muslim community, which can play an important role in bridging gaps between east and west.
·

6:15 pm    December 18, 2003

abdelilah message
1
Well, this whole veil issue is a political game through which France wants to assert its dying power as a big nation. Le camembert commence a peter les plombs (et quand le camembert pete..uhrubuuuu).
Chirac is discussing the ban of veils and other religious symbols in schools. So we should not see it as a war against Islam.
Where does mr Chirac spend his holidays? Ouarzazate. Le paradis du soleil, alors le soleil dyal khounnaiza land
est comme meme pour quelque chose dans cette creativite soudainement apparue chez le Francais coince. Bush criticized Chirac because the States is not a secular country as is France. we douk les politiciens dyalna lli ghadeen jayyeeen 3and sarkozy feenkoum? ktaltouna b saumon we champagne we ma chefna walou.
·

Adnane Ben.'s notes (341)
 
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