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POLITICS
Adnane Ben.
Boston USA
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23
comments.
Democracy in Iraq: A Domino Effect?
12:00:00 AM Monday Aug 18, 2003


Some Arab states make their people believe they are advancing towards democracy, yet it is merely an illusion for many.

Iraq may have the best conditions now to establish a democratic system; conditions that many Arab societies can never dream of.

Do you think this potential in Iraq's political system might cause a domino effect among the Arab societies to start the road to democracy?

The content of this page graphics, text and other elementsis Copyright 2007 prospective author, and Raioo, Inc., only when stated otherwise, and may not be reprinted or retransmitted in whole or in part without the expressed written consent of the publisher.



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8:41 am    February 22, 2008

mostafa message
23
really i remember that said is that (if peapole was was not as good as god told them so...the god will make thier rulers THALEMEEN and not fair at all) i think that the problem is not in the arabs rulers it is in the arabs themselves
all of we have alot of hopes and dreams just it is
all of we hope that our countries to be the best
but sorry tell me....who works to achieve that far.....hopes?
no one but relly i was to shame fo that Aaya on the qouroan that tell us that
( )
i hope all of we to believe our prenciblse pleas....

3:45 pm    September 4, 2003
havana
22
21
I can't agree any more.
All Arab Gov have at least one mass grave yard.
Hassan II (over10000 massacred in the 60?s) and he got a red carpet at white house.
Hafed asad ~4000 in 90?s halab and he was visited by Jims baker later
Saddam ~ 10000 kurds in the 80?s + 1000?s of Iranians by chemical W, and few weeks later was visited by Rumsfeld
King housine ( 10000?s of Palestinians in the 70?s ) and told Israel about Jamal Nasser preparation to attack it ( causing Egypt to be attacked first and loose the war). Naturally still the best friend of US.
Fahed ben abdle aziz ~ 3000 in riad in the 80?s never made news in US .
The list is long no needs to bored all off you
They are all on the US pay roll

5:42 pm    August 23, 2003
Peace_Maker
21
|||||||||||||||||

Arab countries had lost their idenities a long time ago. and there's no need to shed more tears on the murky shameful reality hoovering over our pride. The precious pride we inherted from our beloved ancestors and pious parents. Arab countries are now ruled by bunch of idiots, killers, thieves, clowns, and faithless. It is a fact that those humbly trusted rulers are nothing but slavery ouposts for West. They also get orders and instructions and get yelled at whenever they err. It is a good thing to remind ourselves that Democracy is just a term. Whether it is practiced here or there, it is only a smart fool, politicians do use to turn away the anger of public from their bloody ways.

Peace Be Upon Our Prophet.


4:41 pm    August 23, 2003
aghrom
20
Thanks to Adnan,

Democracy is the closest thing to Choura in the western world. However it is not half as a good as Choura.

In Morocco we are ages away from having a good Choura system (as lon as you see kids getting drunk). We might think that we can be democratic for some years and then evolve to our own political system (moroccan based on islamic principles).

But how can Morocco be a democracy when 50% of the people can't read nor write.

If Morocco becomes a pure democracy like the USA or Canada... we will have the follwoing:
1) Public Gay marriaged near the Hassan 2 Mosque
2) Kids thrwoing their parents into jail because they yaled at them
3) Marijuana sold at moul zerri3a near every high school
4) A bunch of "intelectuals" will worship the Sun or something they will come up with (freedom of religion)
5) Your younger brother will change his name to James Bond because he liked the movie (remember..we are in a democracy)


The only benefit I can see for a democracy in Morroco is that the Amazigh identity and language of the country will be recognized officially. However there will be a price, the Imelchil festival will have to give place to the Gay moroccan citizens.

Hell with Democracy.

Any smart people out there. We need a cultural revolution in Morocco (like China did). We need to have our own way of thinking, own identity and style. Just base any work or thinking you on commonly understood islamic principals and we shall prevail.

Long Live Jame3 Lefna: The real morrocan parliament.


3:29 pm    August 21, 2003
Tchiko
19
18
I could not agree more.

12:56 pm    August 21, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
18
17
Yes Tchiko, as far as I am concerned the principle of Choura is the same as the definition of a Republic, or what is also reefrred to as a democracy. Choura, in my humble opinion, comes from the Arabic origin verb "Cha'awara" which means To consult. So Choura's main principle is to consult with each other when it comes to issues that impact all people, basically it encourages team-spirit.. it makes people share the responsibility instead of putting it all on one person. Ironically there is a world body like Choura: United Nations, but of course it is misused and corrupt, but still much consulting goes through it.

Of course it is not practical to consult with every person in the community, so that's why people elect representatives to speak on their behalf. This must have been a common practice even in Mohammed's and Khulafaa rashidon era. You'd have a body of supposedely wise people, experienced, merchants, educated..etc who are in a better position to make educated guesses, approaches to solutions of problems, and people who raise their community's concern to the table of the Choura body + leader.

So Choura is inline with democracies and republics - in their ideal picture.


11:21 am    August 21, 2003
Tchiko
17
I wanna ask a question if u guys do not mind,
what does democracy mean ?
I looked it up in a dictionary..and..

Democracy = government by the whole population, through elected representatives, classless and tolerant society,
in Greek, demokratia = rule of the people.
Democratic=favouring social equality,
and what does Choura mean, or what is based on? is not based on oppinion people, trying to get the best one...it sounds to me like democracy, am i wrong?


10:17 am    August 21, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
16
Adnae, Raioo is not a law or a way of life, so it hasn`t failed YET , i don`t think it would...
just like soccer,

10:16 am    August 21, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
15
Suite :
the difference between laws created by men, and Islamic Law, is that they don`t take in consideration the day of judgment, people can play around the law, but for islamic law, you know that will be judged here on earth and then on the judgment day, that makes a lot of differences,
Some people might fear only GOD some people might fear other people.....

10:16 am    August 21, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
14
Adnae, i was talking about systems that big countries adopted and they thought that they are the greatest powers, they were at some point but it all fails, because it reaches a Point when there is a dead end, and again every system that was created by men has failed.
for your example, i can tell you that if that police man stops me and i have a security clearance, he will not give me a ticket, or if i`m somebody`s son, he wouldn`t give me a ticket, is that Law? law should be applied to every body no body should have a security clearance, or whatsoever.

if some body like sharon kills people right and left and he doesn`t get judged just because the president of the powerful nation on earth says he is a man of peace, is that law ? those people are not afraid of law , when a poor man loses his wife to his king, becaus the king has the power, what is this guy gonna do? the king is not a muslim he doesn`t believe that he will be judged for he has done, the guy is not muslim he will hate the king and probably do some stupid things, maybe kill him self, because he thinks that no body can give him his right back.
if both were muslims, the king should think that even no body can judge him in earth he will stand in front iof god one day, if he doesn`t the guy after losing his wife will say(7assbiya allah wa ni3ma alwakil) and that will calm him down more than any other thing, and he sure know that there will come a day when the king will be judged for he has done to him.


9:40 am    August 21, 2003
Why?!@#$
13
Hillou :) not Topic related ... download this song ... it's the S**T ... Lil' Jon & The Eastside Boyz ---Get Low

9:15 am    August 21, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
12
10
Nego, let me give my thoughts about your statement "..every thing until now that was created by Men has failed "

I know that what you mean is the laws invented by men. But you can see that you exaggerrate in your statement. You can many laws out there that work: simple example is you're driving 100 miles per hour and if the cop stops you, you're getting a speeding ticket. If you don't pay it, your license is revoked etc..

I would say, Nego, that it's not the laws men invent that Fail, but rather, it is the reaction of men to these laws that eventually fails the sole purpose of these laws. The purpose of these laws is to enforce order, enforce discipline, and eventually condition people to reach a level of self-policing. But if men do not learn when they get penalized, if men try to escape penalties, try to work around tehse laws, then the fruit of it is not seen.

Same for Islam. Its laws are out there, but if people do not react to them properly, if people escape them, if people work around them, then the bening fruit of islam laws is not seen.


9:06 am    August 21, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
11
10
Everytime I read "generalized" statements like this I get chills:

Nego said:"..every thing until now that was created by Men has failed "

How about Raioo ? :)


9:00 am    August 21, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
10
Let`s explain something here, you guys are talking about Democracy and Islam, but we should be talking about Democracy and Chourra, because Democracy is just a way to treat people , to lect your leaders to ....., But Islam is a way of life how treat people and how to live with each other, how to succeed in our life, with people and with God,
To say that Islam encourages Democracy and doesn`t enforce it, is somehow WRONG, because Democracy the way it is now, is not as Chourra wish Islam ENFORCE us to do, to be just, if you wanna elect your leader, you do it by choura, it is a fard on us to do the chourra, in Islam so it is enforced if you are a muslim you have to have choura in all your actions, war, peace, elections, etc...,
Islam is much bigger than Democracy, Islam is PERFECT because it is not laws invented by MEN, and every thing until now that was created by Men has failed ...,

8:43 am    August 21, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
9
8
Apatride, read message 6 written by "Man in teh moon" and you will understand, probably, what Amine means. Amine was quoting message 6... as far as I can see.

So read previous messages before replying..


8:29 am    August 21, 2003
Apatride
8
7
yep I agree Mr Amine , you're a man in the moon ,you even sounds like someone with prophecies, are you mohamed II the second prophet in islam?wake up ! things are much complicated to say , democracy was invented to erase islam !! pff n'importe quoi ...strange i thought that islam was strong enough to resist any ideology , no? dear illuminated friend , elaborate a little bit , you're may be hiding some above average intelligence .

6:43 am    August 21, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
7
Man in the moon,

It's about time you return to planet earth and get off your high. "Democracy is a word created to erase Islam." "it doesn't encourage it."

I need not say more.


1:16 am    August 21, 2003
The Man In The Moon
6
Hi:
It seems That everyone is confused about the issue of democracy. Democracy is only an illusion, and there is not even a democratic country in this world. Can anyone give me an example? Democracy is a word created to erase Islam. Islam is more than democracy, cos We live accordingly to God's Laws and rules., and It doesn't encourage it, cos it's a pillar of Islam. All the great historians believe that Our Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) has created a commonwealth for all the muslims. So, If Irak will be a democratic country as you believe, That democracy will be imported from The US, which is itself not a democratic country. And Again, Democracy is not the right to vote and elect who can rule you. Whenever You separate God from the system or the ideology of your leadership, then you will fall behind to any common body of politics created by Humans, and which is for sure defected. So, what we see happening in Irak in the name of democracy is just the seen part of the Iceberg, cos Nobody will free you until you free yourself. Just a quick review of our Religion, and then we will understand How Great it is and How subtle and modern it is, that can still fit even in this century. All our opponents arguments is that you can't practice islam in our times!!! Which Totally Wrong....I do agree with You WHY, we are arab nations and not islamic nations.
Peace

3:41 pm    August 20, 2003
Kasskroute
5
hi dear Adnane ;)
democracy is not only choosing a leader among us. Democracy is a mentality among us. Which means how to talk, respect eachother, find compromises, don't f***** eachother ;) Iknow you don't like the dirty word ;) So dear Adnane the question is not personnal but structural (manhajia) one .

1:04 pm    August 20, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
4
3
It's not as easy as you make it look like. Islam is not necessarily a democracy. I believe, in my humble opinion, that islam encourages democracy but it doesn't enforce it.

Islam is a complement to one's instinct and common sense. And usually one's instinct and common sense tells us that we need to elect a leader among us, to start with, otherwise everyone will be up to his/her own interpretations and major conflict of interest arises. Among us, we elect the leader who shows highest qualities of leadership, wisdom, etc.. If we fail to elect a leader who will protect and lead us, we raise our concerns, if nothing works, we change him or reelect. For me that's common sense, and it has nothing to do with religion.


10:34 am    August 20, 2003
Why?@#$
3
Hillou :) ... hold on guys ... if those countries were really islamic countries ... the real islam ... they won't need a regime change .. according to my knowledge islam is supposed to be a democracy ... the best if am not wrong ???? so let's make it straight ... when you point finger to a none democratic country, do not point to islam .. I rather call them arab countries .. not islamic countries... did you get my point ?

9:56 am    August 20, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
2
Tchiko I think you're right on. The Iraq case may not be a strong example for other Arabs to follow because it was a regime change by military force.. not civil force, not civil militia force, but US force.

I also think that if a Muslim country adopts democracy as opposed to autocracy or kingdom, it doesn't necessarily inspire other countries to do the same. we see that Iran adopted democracy more than 10 years ago through civil force, but this didn't cause any more democacies in its neighboorhood.

People talk about democratic neighborhoods. If a country becomes democratic, the countries around it are more likely to adopt democracy also.. but I don't see that happening in the Arab neighboorhood. If the countries adopt democracy by their will and naturally then great, otherwise there are other means: introduce constraints when it comes to trades, say we want you to become democratic in roder to get this much or be a member of our entity... of course or by force, the newly introduced mean by the Bush administration (!)

I ask the question what sustains autocracies? what creates them? what sustains them? by answering these questions I think one can figure out how to expire them, and forever maybe!


11:33 am    August 19, 2003
Tchiko
1
Je ne suis pas vraiment dou?e pour les conversations politiques, mais personnellement je pense que l'Iraq passe par une ?tape de transition dont sa dur?e d?pend et du degr? du changement que le syst?me Iraquien va subir, et de combien de degr? d'angle son la politique du gouvernement changera......et vue comme bien l'Iraq a souffert jusqu'? pr?sent et Dieu sait tt seul combien ?a va durer encore cette ?tape de transition, je pense que ?a serait pas facile d'?tablir une democracy dans un autre pays Arabe,
Peut ?tre que les choses vont changer un tt petit peu??.je pense qu'il va falloir exercer la m?me force soit de l'int?rieur ou de l'ext?rieur pour faire un changement si radical, voil?

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Google Language Translation: English to/from Arabic..
Aziz Mekouar, Ambassador of the Kingdom of Morocco to the US..
Google Shoots Microsoft.. One.. More.... Time!..
Monsieux Mehdi Ben Barka: Un Marocain Assassin Qui Visait P..
Yale, Taliban and Weld L'Hashemi....
Near-eastern Muslim Scholars..
Three Algerians on Highway =]..
Moroccan Riverdance!..
Moroccan Candle-toe Dance..
Moroccan Qassida: Vraie Poesie!..
LA3MARNA Legacy..
Chilling Like a Mqedem in Morocco..
Alone in the Wilderness..
Are Iranians and Americans Blowing it Up?..
Are we a virus..?..
How come Morocco is silent to Dalfour, Sudan?..
Barreling Towards an Iraqi Civil War..
Pomme and Kelly ..
Intelligent Design and Evolution in not so American lands..
The Prophets animated by Steve Whitehouse..
More with Claudio Bravo..
Muslim Texans..
Hajj Stampede Gone Ugly!..
Self-portraits 001-002..
Why Faith?..
Online 7awli Souk!..
2006 !..
 
2005
Derbouka Bled Attack..
Adopted HIV kids from Romania..
Operation Mapping Raioo Love!..
They burnt themselves.. Come'on!..
My Winamp Skin: The New Beetle..
The Forbidden Zone film that electrified me!..
Cousins skyblogging..
Chilean artist in Morocco..
Moroccan Blue tops colors!..
Osama in FAMILY GUY..
Baraka Art..
Itsy Bitsy knowledge..
The most misunderstood [and growing..] world religion, Islam..
Moroccan Christians..
Polygamy in USA..
Architecturing to joy!..
This Moorish cult in America..
The Magnificient King Vulture..
Al-Rashid and the Fart..
On the subject of Evil Eye..
Anecdote on Life and 3ibada..
Anecdote on Giving in Time of Need..
T-shirt design: L'Amoureux!..
Craig Thompson art..
The Real Origin of Smileys :)..
T-shirt design: Happy Sailor!..
T-shirt design: threadless in Kufi..
T-shirt design: Magic e-lamp..
My August '05 T-shirt Designs ..
Your Living Space..
The Raioo Story: 2. in the garden..
The Raioo Story: 1. intro..
Arabic Beat and Instrument Music Wanted!..
 
2004
RA?NA RAI Legacy..
Algerian Chaabi..
Nour L'Koufi (Gharnati)..
Hidalgo in Morocco..
Le Secret d'Elissa Rhais..
Imam Shafii. Soni N'nafssa..
Feqqas (Moroccan Biscuiti)..
Casablanca Connect..
 
2003
ZEBDA! Un Groupe Genial!..
Al Moutanabbi. Idha Ghamarta..
Imam Shafii. sa'fir tajid 3iwada..
boston.food.Tangierino..
Long Distance Honey ..
The Working Wife and Husband..
The Hammam Public Bath: Do you still go there?..
Hip Hop Classic Favorites!..
Down With Love..
Lord Of The Rings..
How To create a Moroccan remix of a video clip ? ..
 
2002
Why we don't eat Porc?..
Do You Play Music?..
Hidoura: Your Moroccan Natural Carpet..
Khaddouj Slam-dunking From Marrakesh To New York..


FAVORITES
Hmida Rass Lmida L'Avare de Molire!
Moroccan City Names
Shining ability is a gift...
Halloween SPECIAL 2007: La Mort D'une Souri!
Cheikha Rimitti: 83 Years of Life...
Why do we pray ?
short ones
ABSOLUTE RAIOO Summer 2007 Rai vol.2
Cheba Zohra & Mahadattes de Rilizane
Close Encounters of the Moroccan Kind!
Biyouna
Another attempt at writing. Will this language ever feel natural?
North Africa Journal
Moroccan Tattoos
From Los Angeles to Casablanca!
Amina Alaoui Lyrics
Dr. Hassan Al-Turabi
Vulgarity as revolution: Lemsakh we tsalguit
Les Oiseaux De Figuig!
ghir bessyas a moulay!
QURAN FLASH
Moroccan Playing Cards Game ronda v1.0
A Call From Algeria to Help Suffering Little Boy Mounib!
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