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Adnane Ben.
Boston USA
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199
comments.
Israel Strikes in Syria After Suicide Bombing
12:00:00 AM Sunday Oct 5, 2003



2003-10-05 By Jeffrey Heller

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel took its battle against Palestinian militants to Syria on Sunday, bombing near the capital Damascus for the first time in decades, after a suicide bomber killed 19 people in an Israeli restaurant.

There was no immediate Syrian reaction, but a diplomat in Damascus told Reuters the Arab country planned to ask the U.N. Security Council to meet to discuss the raid.

It was the first time Israel had struck so far inside Syrian territory since the 1973 Middle East war, military commentators said.

"The Israel Defense Forces operated last night deep inside Syrian territory and hit a training base used by terror groups, including Islamic Jihad," the army said about the air attack at Ain Saheb, about 20 km (12 miles) northwest of Damascus.

Palestinian sources reported casualties, but there was no official confirmation.

The Israeli air force went into action a day after a female suicide bomber from Islamic Jihad killed 19 people in a beach restaurant in the northern Israeli city of Haifa.

Israel said it did not intend to pick a fight with Damascus, on the eve of the 30th anniversary of the 1973 Middle East war, but wanted the air strike to serve as a warning to stop Palestinian militant groups from operating on Syrian territory.

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The content of this page —graphics, text and other elements—is © Copyright 2007 prospective author, and Raioo, Inc., only when stated otherwise, and may not be reprinted or retransmitted in whole or in part without the expressed written consent of the publisher.



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5:45 pm    October 14, 2003
HusbandAndWife
199
198
continued...

4. Your uncle wants to go to school so that he can get a job to support his family. He needs $1000 for school, and you lend him the $1000. After he was done with school, you ask him to give you back $1500. Is the extra $500 ribaa?

P.S: I am not a certified Muslim nor do I claim to be knowledgeable about religion or anything like that. I am just using common sense and logic to make decisions that are moderate. I know that a lot of Muslims on earth, when they realize that their religious leaders are incapable of making simple decisions like ?The ribaa debate?, start making up their own decisions about religious matters. It seems that the religious leaders need to step up to the plate and at least control the ribaa by issuing specific cases where it's OK to borrow from a bank. For example, they need to say OK to the buying of a moderate primary family house, and they can set some limits on borrowing basing on the location of the house: example, a moderate 3 bedroom house in Montreal, should cost between $90,000 to $110,000 in 2003. In 2010, this same house should cost between 95,000 and 115,000.

Jazzakomo Allaho Khairan, Wa ssalam

·

5:44 pm    October 14, 2003
HusbandAndWife
198
197
Dear Casaoui and Negotiator,

When it comes to a moderate primary house for a family, It should be OK for the husband and the wife to borrow the "necessary" money to buy this house and pay "rent= principal + interest" for the next 30 years to the bank (at the end of that period they will become homeowners, so that they can concentrate on their Salat and Hajj instead of dealing with working while old in order to pay rent.) Islam is ?dinou Youssren?. This should not be called Ribaa.

Here are some suggestions concerning the Imams in Montreal to look into Ribaa.

Tell them to get the opinion of the people in the Mosque, kind of a poll, and ask the following scenarios:

1. A moderate 3 bedroom house for a family of 5 cost $100,000, in Montreal Canada. This family is currently paying $600 a month renting this house. Is it OK for this family to borrow $100,000 from a bank, give the $100,000 to the owner of the house, and the family now pays the same $600 to the bank. After 30 years, the house becomes the property of the family, and there is no more $600 payment to the bank. Is this OK? Or should the family give the $600 to the owner of the house forever?

2. The family in step-1 above, instead of buying the moderate house for a $100,000, decided to buy a luxury 3 bedroom house costing $300,000. If this family borrows 300,000 from the bank, is it Ribaa?

3. A person is sick, he needs $1000 for a surgery at the hospital, and you lend him the $1000 to do the surgery. After he was done with the surgery, you ask him to give you back $1500. Is the extra $500 ribaa?


continued...

·

2:53 pm    October 14, 2003
Casaoui
197
196
Negotiator,
I'm surprised to hear that qaradawi, said it is ok to buy a house with interest. I tought he was the one who was opposed to this idea.
Here is a link to what qaradawi thinks about interest :
http://www.qaradawi.net/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=2761&version=1&template_id=130&parent_id=17

Anyway ur logic negotiator makes sens, if $ 100 000 house will get to a $300 000 value by the time u pay off the hole loan, then it make sens.
Now I thing the subject of interest from a religious point of view is discussible, because I always thought that Interest is not subject to ijtihad.
May allah guide us all to the right path.
Thank u husbandandwife for this rich discussion, I learned a lot from it.

Peace N love

·

9:24 am    October 14, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
196
I heard alqaradaoui saying that you can buy a house with interests, and only the house, because it is a neccessity, but if you need a car ,and you go buy it with interest , while you can buy it wothout, that becomes doubtful...
I heard as well that why most scholars don`t oppose buying houses with interests , because when you buy the house now in 2003 let`s say for example it costs $100,000.00 if you have it you can buy now with that amount if not, you can go to the bank and they will help you out and then you will end up paying $300,000.00 after 30 years, they say on the year 2033 that house does cost $300,000.00 so it is just like you were saving money to buy a house after 30 years,
Personnaly i think i was opposed to the idea of buying a house by credit , but when i listened to what some scholars had to say about it i changed my opinion....
but still i do respect the opinion of those who still don`t see it important to buy a house with interests.
Allah ykharejna men had denia bla 3ayb
·

8:00 am    October 14, 2003
HusbandAndWife
195
193
Dear Casaoui:

It's good to hear that the Imams in Montreal are looking at Ribaa. I know that there are a lot of Muslims in Montreal without houses (Basically they are wasting 500 to 600 dollars a month on 3 bedroom apartment in stead of owning one)

Just like the example I gave in my previous postings, any solution to get people to own a house must be competitive from a business perspective. I know that "Ribaa is debatable vs.-avis owning a home", but people are smart when it comes down to money.

I hope that whatever "method" to own a house should cost the same as borrowing money from a bank. Example: if for 30 year paying my house through a bank cost $100,000, doing the same thing through a "HALAL" method should cost $100,000 over 30 years for the same house.

Anything better than $100,000 over 30 years and HALAL will be great.

My doubt is this: all the "schemes" of rent to own, lease to own, bla-bla-bla that cost more that $100,000 for the same house over 30 years and will no guarantees nor protection to the perspective buyer will NOT WORK. Good luck!


Jazzakomo Allaho Khairan, Wa ssalam

·

3:21 pm    October 13, 2003
Casaoui
194
193
Let's go back to ummah's concern in general. I already told that some great scholars in Islam have autorised Interest I know that their argument was bank interest are not ribba that god prohibit in quran. It is hard for me to digest this, I still don't make a difference between the examples u gave in ur message 184 (when u give someome 10000, and he return 5000 extra). This is why I agree with those who said bank interest are haram because it is ribba. May be I should double my research on fatwas concerning ribba. But if I find out that most of scolars are saying haram and those who said it is halal don't bring enough evidences, I will never go and buy house with a bank loan even if I will pay my rent all my life.

Peace N love

·

3:21 pm    October 13, 2003
Casaoui
193
192
Concerning ijtihad, as far as I know, ijtihad can only be used when we face a situation and their is no verse in the quran and their is hadith that deals with the problem. I'm not an expert of Ijtihad if u have a better definition, pls correct me.
Now let me talk to u about a story we're leaving here in montreal these last years, and this is join ur point of view. Some imams here are thinking about to gather and discuss the bank interest issue concerning housing. The situation at this time, is that most of muslims don't own their houses, and here in north america when a comunity don't own real estate properieties, they can be too weak. So if muslims own their houses, we can be stronger in terms of having possiblity to go and get loans to open businesses, employ people, have the power to go negociate with governement, be represented in goverment, etc... such benefit we can have. So some group of Imams think that the situation need definitly a fatwa. At the moment, no fatwa is done yet, and I still don't have my position to the problem. But once this fatwa will be out, I will have me position depending on the evidences they're going to bring. That was specific to a muslim community that live in the west.

continued

·

3:20 pm    October 13, 2003
Casaoui
192
191
HusbandAndWife,
I think allah have put a period on the ribba issue. I already talk about this when I mentioned that god have been flexible on some other issues, and was not on ribaa.
Now let's go back to housing problems. I'm not saying that as muslims we should seet and watch. In my previous message I was talking about my personnal choice faced to a certain situation.
But muslims have to come up with solutions for our ummah. Yes a society without homelesses and with the best cotes quality of life educations, etc.. is what we need.
Muslims leaders have to come up with solutions for lot of other things.
Husbandandwife, yes Islam prohibit ribba (in my understanding to the verses of quran), but Islam doesn't stop us from designing solutions for housing or any other social problems.

continued

·

12:37 pm    October 13, 2003
HusbandAndWife
191
190
Dear Casaoui:

It's very clear that you do not have an answer to the desire of human beings in the 21st century to plan their lives by having ownership of their own house when they retire. I gave my opinion and I stand by it until I meet my creator!

I know that God is almighty, but I also know that we work from 8 to 6 everyday in order to pay rent, buy food, get an education etc...These tasks mean that a human being must manage their own money and their own destiny.

If you know anything about Morocco, you know very well that people work, eat, and when they retire, there's no house, no money, etc...And they end up homeless.

These homeless people create more homeless people. And the cycle tears down the whole fabric of our nation. Too many homeless people create problems for the current and next generations. They affect us as human beings. They make our religion look very bad and very backwards.

The point that I am trying to make is: Our Muslim leaders have failed us all. They are incapable of applying a simple "Ijtihaad" to solve small problems like this. I think we both gave two different views on the issue of the Ribaa debate. Here is a parting thought: "Never put a period where Allah put a comma"

Jazzakomo Allaho Khairan, Wa ssalam

·

12:16 pm    October 13, 2003
Casaoui
190
189
I fear god more than poverty, I fear god more than being judge as looser, I fear god more than not owning an appartment.
It just again question of target in life. Yes I want to own an appartment but with hallal if it is not possible, it will be fine and I will happy with because I have a superior target which is takwa (avoid god s punishement)
It may seem stupid, but to me its logic and comon sence. If some one tel me he knows he will be punished for some thing and he is still doing that thing means he has doubt in his believe or his believe is not to strong. Most of the time the believe is not to strong because these are unseen things.
Concerning the leasing option, all what I know it cost to much. It s the same thing what some companies are doing in morocco (credit bail). but in north america it is available for real estate also. Few people do it, it s only muslims are doing it and some few catolics because ribba is not allowed in there religion also.

peace N love

·

12:15 pm    October 13, 2003
Casaoui
189
188
HusbandAndWife,
I know what s the situation in morocco. It is not only in morocco in the west also people are faced the situation.
Let say u pay $ 700 a month, and if go and by a house it will cost u $800
a month as a bank payment and then u ll own your house after 20 years or what ever.
Personally, I chose not to buy a house and stay in an appartment and pay a rent every month.
It may seems stupid if u look at from an economical point of view.
But this is my choice and I m happy with it. Because I know I m not disobeing god and will not be punished at least for ribba.
If owning an appartement is the main target u have in this life, then it will appear so hard for u to addmit paying rent for an appartment while u can pay almost same thing and own the appartment one day.
This is again depending on people s believe. If a police officer come and tel u contract interest u go to jail, i m sure most of people will avoid going to banks for loan.
I fear god more than anything else.

continued...

·

5:43 am    October 13, 2003
HusbandAndWife
188
187
Dear Casaoui:

Can you give me and the readers in this forum a specific, realistic, and competitive business case where I can own the appartement I mentioned in posting #183. We are talking about Casablanca, Morocco.

Forget about what is happening in Canada, USA, or Europe in the mortgage area. These countries have surpassed every Muslim nation on earth by so much development, we in the Muslim world look like "caveman developement" compared to theirs.

Here are the parameters:

1. Cost of the appartment now is 300615 dirhams

2. renting the same appartment is 2000 dirhams

3. Going the bank way, Total cost is 720000 dirhams over 30 years at 7% rate.

4. 95% the people do not have a lot of Money. So let's assume for the next 30 years all they have for housing is 2000 dirhams.

Also, please explain the lease to own scenario to the reader so that they can see the actual costs and risks of any financial transaction.

Jazzakomo Allaho Khairan, Wa ssalam

·

7:10 pm    October 12, 2003
Casaoui
187
186
HusbandAndWife,
One more thing I forgot to mention,
concerning the housing problems u mentioned, as muslims it is our duty to come up with solutions as long as they respect shari3a, and I'm sure there is lot possible solutions it just require hard work and strong will. Islam doesn't need ullama, fuqaha and shouyoukh only Islam needs also professional of finance, economist, doctors, etc...
With the work of islamic legislation specialist and economist we can find solutions for banking and housing problems.
Also under a sincere islamic legislation, need for ribba whouldn't be a problem, because social justice should take part, no big difference between social classes and so on.
One of the solution I've for housing here in North America is leasing with a purchace option, which I think is valid. The problem of this solution is that it cost more money if u compare it to regular mortgage interest. But as I told if we work hard, I believe solutions are out there.

peace N love

·

6:46 pm    October 12, 2003
Casaoui
186
185
Quran is words of god that were sent the all the humanity and to be applied in all ages. Why because I don't doubt the perfection of God. I can not follow the directions established by human being and leave the directions given to us by who created human being (simple logic )
If u think that quran can not be applied in today's life, means that u're saying that god don't know what he is doing, or at that time didn't know there will be changes in people's life.
Islam today seems hard to apply, and the profet (pbuh) said in a hadith "badaa al islamou ghariban wa sa ya3oudou ghariban fa touba lil ghourabaa"
HusbandAndWife, Jannah is not cheap. It requires lot of sacrifice and lot of patience. So it is again ur choice to choose between things that will take u to jannah and things that will take u hell.
I know that allah also reward people in life because the here after. I've seen people with strong willing to avoid ribba, and god rewarded them for what they sacrified in terms of money houses, etc.. (I don't have a tangible evidences for this it just according to my personal experiences).It is again a matter of priorities.
One more thing in Islam intention is the main thing u'll judge for. So if u follow the opinion of tantawi for example and u really believe in it, as far as I know u will be judge according to ur intention and who ever gave a false fatwa will punished for it. But u'll taking to much risk (the loss can be too big in terms of sins)

peace N love

·

6:46 pm    October 12, 2003
Casaoui
185
184
HusbandAndWife ,
I was waiting for this kind of response. Part of my answer is in the my previous post.
So think that there are things in Islam that are not suitable for the 21st centry.
"....Where are the people with ?Ijtihaad? to help this confused Ommah of ours? Islam is missing a lot from the 21st century!
...."
I fully apreciate ur concern about the ummah , but ss i told u in my previous message, there has been some ijtihad about ribba, done by very big scholars, and I respect their point of view. U can follow their opinion, and I hope god will judge u according to ur intention which I'm sure is good.
Some scholars like qaradawi said that ribba does not need any fatwa even we are in the twenty first centry and even things are getting ruff.
I personally agree with qaradawi point of view, because it is very clear in quran. And when god order us to do some thing and he knows it is going to be hard in some situation he mentions exeptions. Example allah (swt) made haj obligatory, but he said those who can not afford it, with maghfira.
God made porc haram, but if u're in a situation where if u don't eat u'll die, u can eat porc. As far as I know there is not verse in the quran or hadith that allow a person to commit ribba if he's in a real need of money.

continued....

·

5:31 pm    October 12, 2003
HusbandAndWife
184
183
Now as far as Ribaa is concerned, here is a situation that is clearly Ribaa:

Example-1:

1. A friend of mine is sick and needs 10000 dirhams for surgery at the hospital

2. I give him the 10000 dirhams.

3. After His surgery I ask him to return back to me 15000 dirhams

4. The extra 5000 dirhams is Ribaa

Example-2:

1. my brother wants to go to school, he needs 10000 dirhams to go to school

2. I give him the 10000 dirhams

3. After he was done with school, I ask him to return back to me 15000 dirhams

4. The extra 5000 dirhams is Ribaa

You see how Islam of the 21st needs to be simplified. People need clear and simple cases. Too long of Koran or Hadith verses gets very confusing very quickly. Where are the people with ?Ijtihaad? to help this confused Ommah of ours? Islam is missing a lot from the 21st century!


Jazzakomo Allaho Khairan, Wa ssalam

·

5:29 pm    October 12, 2003
HusbandAndWife
183
178
Dear Casaoui,

I read the verses you typed and this is my take on the subject of Ribaa based on the 21st century realities:

1. To rent a 3 bedroom apartment in Casablanca, it costs 2000 dirhams
2. If you live in this apartment for 30 years, you pay 2000*30*12= 720000 dirhams (we are assuming that in 30 years there are no increases in the rent!!!!)

3. After 30 years, the apartment is not yours

4. To purchase that same apartment, it will cost you 300615 dirhams (This is assuming monthly payments to the bank of 2000 dirhams at 7% interest for 30 years)

5. After 30 years, you have paid to the bank 720000 dirhams (same as step 2 above), the apartment is yours and you can have a dignified retirement

6. Now think about it for a second, you will own your own place at the end of 30 years, vs. still paying even after 30 years

7. This is what happens with the money you are paying to the bank: more apartments will be built, more Moroccans will work as builders of those apartments, more economic activity will be built around those apartments (example: Mahlaba to sell RAIIB, Hanout Al Bakkala to sell fruits and vegetables, Boutcher for meat, gaz station, etc?) and the list goes on and on. This is the beauty of bring Islam inline with the 21st century realities

Continued?

·

8:30 am    October 12, 2003
Casaoui
182
181
HusbandAndWife,
I'm not pretending that I'm a scholar in Islam or I know more that u do.
My knowledge in Islam is very limited, but I'm still open to any discussion.

peace N love.

·

8:23 am    October 12, 2003
Casaoui
181
180
There is also some fatawi about ribba, in which some scolars are allowing ribba in todays life and theses are scolars who I really respect like tantawi, there proof is that rabba is different from interest. Personally I believe ribba is interest, and I believe is doesn?t even need a fatwa as qaradawi said, because it is very clear in the quran. But again as I told u, u can follow this fatwa, but personally I don?t wanne take that risk.
Sory guys for being to long

Peace N Love

·

8:21 am    October 12, 2003
Casaoui
180
179
Concerning giving brides in mukata3a, I know there is verse or hadiths that says ?na3ala allahou rashi wal mourtashi? I don?t remember which chapter in quran. But u know any verse or hadith that allow u to give a bride when u?re in a harry, I will be really interested in learning this hadith.
Now, u may tell me theses verses are misinterpreted, U?re free to believe in what u want, but as told u there is a punishment associated to every sin or evil u can do. If ur interpretation of theses ahadiths tels u that ribba is allowed and hijjab is not obligatory, fine. But let me tel u u?re taking to much risk, in case of u?re interpretation is wrong, u will be complete regret of what u?re doing.
If u believe that these things are the truth but u thing that quran and sunnah are not suitable for today?s life, it?s again ur choice. Because it will be a matter of proriorities, and u know ur priorities more than I do for sure. Personally my priority is the day of judgment because it is going to be much longer. When we see that day, we will think that we lived only half a day in this life. Allah said in the Draggers chapter verses 42 to 46 ?They ask you about the hour, when it will come. About what! You are one to remind of it. To your Lord is the goal of it. You are only a warner to him who would fear it. On the day that they see it, it will be as though they had not tarried but the latter part of a day or the early part of it. ?
continued....
·

8:19 am    October 12, 2003
Casaoui
179
178
"Those who swallow down usury cannot arise except as one whom Shaitan has prostrated by (his) touch does rise. That is because they say, trading is only like usury; and Allah has allowed trading and forbidden usury. To whomsoever then the admonition has come from his Lord, then he desists, he shall have what has already passed, and his affair is in the hands of Allah; and whoever returns (to it)-- these arc the inmates of the fire; they shall abide in it. Allah does not bless usury, and He causes charitable deeds to prosper, and Allah does not love any ungrateful sinner. Surely they who believe and do good deeds and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate they shall have their reward from their Lord, and they shall have no fear, nor shall they grieve. O you who believe! Be careful of (your duty to) Allah and relinquish what remains (due) from usury, if you are believers. ? The Cow verses 275-278.
Concerning the fact that u don?t believe in Hijjab, verses and ahadiths from quran already been posted (message 110 and 124) I don?t have more than that to say about hijjab. I personally believe that this evidences are enough to believe that hijjab is fard. Same verses and ahadiths apply to fact that u go to beaches, unless u dress u way we?re supposed to (according to quran) and when u go to the beach and u can sustain from looking to others. Obviously ur wife can not swim with hijjab because it will make it worst and unless u have a private beach then u can do what ever u want.
continued...
·

8:18 am    October 12, 2003
Casaoui
178
177
Salam,
HusbandAndWife, on my last post I didn't which things are forbden and which are not. The reason I did not is because I avoid to say things are haram or not and I don't like to be responsible for it.
But since u requested me to be more specific and u want evidences from quran and sunnah, no problem I have some answers to ur request.
I will start with usury (ribaa), u said that u contracted a mortgage and ur paying interest on ur loan. I believe this is worth a panishement according to quran and here is a few verses :
"Those who swallow down usury cannot arise except as one whom Shaitan has prostrated by (his) touch does rise. That is because they say, trading is only like usury; and Allah has allowed trading and forbidden usury. To whomsoever then the admonition has come from his Lord, then he desists, he shall have what has already passed, and his affair is in the hands of Allah; and whoever returns (to it)-- these arc the inmates of the fire; they shall abide in it.
·

9:04 pm    October 11, 2003
HusbandAndWife
177
174
Dear Casaoui:

Thanks for your answer to posting #173. Can you tell me which items (I numbered my items) are not allowed in Islam and why. I would like an actual verifiable hadeeth or Koran verse on each forbiden item.

Jazakomo allaho Khairan, Wa ssalam

·

5:52 pm    October 11, 2003
lhaj l9armodi
176
listen guys i think no1 will enter heaven come on !!!!
we all did and still do bad things
for example people that live outside morocco our ramadan don t count
we all use banks some of us drink
some use drugs (zatla)
u c there s no perfect muslim here
·

3:34 pm    October 11, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
175
Abidou,
Allah yen3all achitan wyekhziih,
Can you bring us any tafssir that says it was ok for the prophet(PBUH) to ask God`s forgiveness?? or any other prophet, for example Noa asking forgiveness for his Son?
The difference between you and that who kills ??? well i know that God said( wala ta9toulou annafssa llati 7arrama allahou ILLA BIL7A9) so we can kill walakine with a RIGHT.
not every killer is a bad person ...

MB,
Yes i am a Human, that is why i don`t follow my heart cause my heart will tell me not to cut the thiefs hand, BUT GOD said it clearly in his Quran to cut his hand, and guess what , even christians and jews used to do that , I`m glad you said that they warn him 3 times, because don`t hear , CUT HIS HAND, and think that every one who stills will have his hand cut, NO there are rules in that, you should read them and see if they don`t make sense to you, someone who stills to eat won`t have his hand cut..,

Antr said :
Living and actual justice models that fit the modern age are right here before our eyes, I don't see why we have to pick up a model wich was "100% valid" , 700 years ago ...

Can you show us where in front of our eyes? thanks

·

2:39 pm    October 11, 2003
Casaoui
174
173
HusbandAndWife,
According to ur last message, u're adopting a life style where u want to practice Islam and have fun.
u're doing some of ur duties in Islam, like paryer, fasting, etc.. and u'll be rewarded for inchaa lah. But u're also doing things that are not allowed in Islam and u'll be panished for that.
I'm gonna tel u u'll go to heaven or not, god only knows who will enter heaven.
So if die at the moment, u may enter heaven and u may not, but one thing is sure, u want see heaven before u get punished unless u make taouba before u die and god (SWT) u forgive all sins.
As u see I didn't answer ur question, because no body can judge others and say if there good muslims or not. But I gave u a hint on our main goal in this life which is collecting the maximum of hassanat and try to avoid as much as we can haram.
I hope I answered ur question

salamou alaykoum


·

1:23 pm    October 11, 2003
HusbandAndWife
173
172
I like the comments in this group's discussions.

Here is a human being life in Morocco:

1. I Help others in their need (I donate about 1000 dirham to a poor family each year)

2. Both my spouse and I, dress very nicely and we both love to wear jeans and Nike with a T-shirt

3. I go to the Mosque with my spouse on Fridays and major holidays

4. I go to the beach with my spouse and we both swim and sunbath at the Mohammedia beach

5. I go to work Monday through Friday

6. I go dancing with my spouse once a month (on Saturday night at a famous Ain Diaab Club)

7. I invite other very open couples for dinner once a month. We all eat dinner, drink tea, and say jokes about current issues (we love Joummani jokes) and we sit around the table together

8. I do not drink Alcohol, I do not smoke, I do not use Hashish or any other drugs.

9. Unless in a hurry, I do not bribe a person at the Moukataa to get a birth certificate

10. I borrowed money with interest from the BANK in order to buy my current 3 bedroom apartment

11. I fast during Ramadan

12. I intend to go to Hajj when I am 55 years

13. No beard and no Hijab are part of our marriage (we do not want appearance of this kind to define who we are)

14. Even though my spouse and I are careful drivers, sometimes we bribe a police officer in order to get our driver?s license back without having to go through Hell and back and end up giving the bribe anyways to get the driver?s license back.

15. My spouse and I prefer a good civil law than something based on 1500 years ago

Are we good Muslims?

Jazzakomo Allho Khairan, Salaam

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5:14 am    October 11, 2003

abdelilah message
172
Regarding the prophet`s parents I`m sorry but you are wrong again no one knows if they are going to heaven or hell, the prophet (PBUH) WAS NOT EVEN ALLOWED BACH YESSTAGHFER TO THEM, Allah didn`t allow him to ask for his parents forgivness, so how would he know that they went to heaven??? see how you talk without knowing what you are talking about, SO WHAT`S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND THAT WHO SAY IT IS 7ALAL TO KILL A JEW OR A CHRISTIAN? you interpret the way you want and he does the same. reply

First of all, dear Nego, many of the saliheens who have kashf (insight) have said things about the parents of the prophet. Check Sufi books on the matter if you want. The matter of istighfaar was mentioned in some tafaseers but not in all of them. I think that if I do not know what I am talking about it is alhamdulillah a sign to say 'subhanaka la 3ilma lana illa ma 3allamtana'. Brother, the difference between me and someone who kills is clear I think and I think that under wrath you lost it there. Tweddaa wen3al shitaan. Peace.

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10:26 pm    October 10, 2003
The Man In The Moon
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That's so good if you label yourself as a good human being. By Being a good human being you're gonna follow God's will. This is what all religions are about, is to make us good human being and differ us from Animals and beasts. I don't believe in pushing pple to convert to Islam, but I do believe that by giving a good image about Islam and about ourselves we -Muslims-. Then we will set a good example for others to follow. Nowdays, Everything is jumbled and mixed in a boiling pot, and the truth is lost, so we can't distinguish between what is right and what is wrong? Still, some pple keep soul and heart together, and this is what keeps this life going.
May God bless us all.
Peace
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9:54 pm    October 10, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
170
FYI, there was a discussion on raioo a long time ago about the "Muslim" label. Consult it here
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8:21 pm    October 10, 2003
mb
169
FYI....before cutting someone's hand the thief gets 3 warnings then they cut his hand....he has to do the crime 3 times before they actually cut his hand...
Nego....
are u human??? cut his hand and then cut his other hand if he repeats it again.....if someone steals all my money no i don t think i would wanna kill him cause i don t have all this karahiya in my heart....
that might be the problem....fa9idou achayi la yu3tih...kand on a pas l amour ds son coeur et de la compassion ben we just don t give it or share it...
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8:12 pm    October 10, 2003
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166
I have read all 167 messages and still people are unable to answer a simple question:

Are Christianity and Judaism 100% valid religions from the Islamic point of View?

1. Our prophet Mohammed (PBUH) said a hadith about a new born being a Christian, Jew, or Muslim through his or her parents. This means that these religions exist and 100% valid.

2. If Christianity and Judaism are 100% valid, then they are just as good and just as bad as Islam

3. This means you can be of other faiths besides Islam and still be a good person and go to heaven and McDonald?s too

4. So there's no difference between being Christian, Jew, or Muslim

5. So why are we fighting among ourselves and try to convert other people to our own religion.

6. It seems that when a person says that he or she is Christian, Jew, or Muslim it does not mean anything anymore. It's like going to a black person and saying: Hey, I am white and you are not (sounds racist does it)

7. I think I am going to start calling myself a ?good human being? who wants to help other human being. This sound more sincere than calling myself a Muslim, Christian, or Jew, or Hindu, etc?This way I know I belong to Humanity as a whole instead of sect or branch of Humanity

8.I herby declare that all human beings are good. Regardless of religion.


Jazzakomo Allaho Kharan, WaSSalam

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4:05 pm    October 10, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
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166
As far as I am concerned, feel free to express your opinions bro.
Freedom of expression and critics should remain a valid right regardless of ANY law in use (...)
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3:53 pm    October 10, 2003
The Man In The Moon
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165
When they talked about corruption in the world report, It's only bribery and palm greasing, means the Adminstrative systems. Yes, It is hard to apply shari3a in nowdays, But we still can't deny that It's effective. Shari3a is God's Law, It's perfect Unfallible, while Human laws can be defected. I am not suggesting here that we should apply the shari3a, I am just defining what is Shari3a. So, I am not to be blame that I am old fashioned and I should go To afghanistan, and I look like a Monkey, as Mr Moha Keeps saying :). There is nothing wrong with Islam, If there is something corrupted, It is Us, Human beings. You and Me and all of us, We follow our desires to fall into trivialities. God Bless us all.
No hard Feelings.
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3:42 pm    October 10, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
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the least corrupt countries in the world today, do not apply Sharia .
how do you explain that ?
Don't you think it is worth learning from those nations how they did get rid of corruption ?

Living and actual justice models that fit the modern age are right here before our eyes, I don't see why we have to pick up a model wich was "100% valid" , 700 years ago ...

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3:29 pm    October 10, 2003
The Man In The Moon
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Hi Moha:
I am wondering when did I accuse anyone who has a legitimate question about Islam a zionist? Are you sure you read what I wrote?
One other thing Brother, Those pple you are making fun of, are human Beings first of all, and they have a choice. Also, I am not saying that Non-Muslims are wrong. All I am defending here is my religion and I am not attacking anyone else. I don't care what Others believe and think, The point that I am trying to make is That Islam is a peaceful religion. God Bless your Soul Moha.
Can I ask you a question Moha? What religion, faith, do you believe in? and why?
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3:23 pm    October 10, 2003
zankaloni
163
Wanted any infos concerning Ben and Omar please contact the FBi asap
thanks for cooperation !
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3:18 pm    October 10, 2003
The Man In The Moon
162
Hi All:
Islam is a combination of all the religions:christianity, judaism and Even doctrines like Budhhism, and Shitoism. When Islam Came out It was to complete all the religions, cos christianity and Judaism were swayed and faked by their believers. Islam doesn't reject other religions, It completes them. How many bibles and Tourats do christians and Jews have? So many, that they are even themselves confused which one to follow, Islam is based on one Holy Book, the Quran, and this is Its strength. Also, About Cutting the hand of a thief, If you see it from a human side it will be look unmerciful, but believe me it's effective and effecient. Cos if You cut someone's hand he will be a good example to all those who dare steal. As Brother Nego said, Only two cases of cutting hands in 400 years, That's so great Hamdullilah. One thing also, about the capital punishement, we can all take an example of here in America: If you kill someone, then expect to be killed in an electric chair or in a gas room, and or lethal injection. Why is it democratic and legal for them as they say, and it's manslaughter if we kill a criminal? We never raised these issues about the american legal system, and when it comes to Islam they all manage to darken its image and its laws. Please Guys, Let us at least read about our religion before we can go making statements and assumptions that are unreal.
Salam
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3:16 pm    October 10, 2003
Moha
161
Man on the moon
Come on man,u don't make any sense at all. You accuse anybody who have ligitimate question about Islam of beiing zionist and etc. If your faith (Islam) is so perfect,why can't u answer simple questions.Peole are questioning christianity everyday, u never see anybody issuing fatwa calling for their death like Khoumayni did for Salman Rushdie.You said many pple convert to Islam therefore it must be good.Faulty logic,it's quality not quatity that count, are u telling us that all non-muslim are wrong?
BTW I used to go mosque in america and I never meet any normal american who converted to Islam. All the new convert are former prisoners or some fat ugly women looking for husband .So thoses pple are not bright, they don't bring anything positive to Islam. everybody can convert to Islam,especially criminals are attracted to Islam. Yeah we have to be proud of theses new muslimsOh yeah.we must be on the right path .Oh yeah if chicken convert to Islam it's must be good ,bla bla bla
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3:09 pm    October 10, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
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I don't think the argument that prisoner cost money to the state is a solid one.
Criminals cost money to all nations. except maybe in the 3rd world countries...

Instead of cutting a thief's hand, why don't you condemn him to jail according to the value of the object he stole.
then afterowards, he might learn his lesson, find a job , supports himself and pay tax to the state. you can recycle him!

If he commit the same crime , throw him in jail again . serving time is jail is not a picnic.
In this country, poeple they have never heard of hands cutting, yet few poeple locks his bicycle...poeple leave their bags and laptop on the table and go to the rest room ...
the jail sentence even for serious crimes is relatively light , (you pay only a penalty for a small thiefts * clothes, cameras ect* the prisoners have their own PC in their cell, are allowed to go home during the weekends . get wage by working in jail . they can study or learn a profession too.
Yet, nobody wants to go to jail... there again ,you see...Morality can be thought at school, the familly and by the society .
Being a muslim or not, has nothing to do with it .
In my opinion if you cut a person's both hands, you might as well execute him, because you would be making life hard for somebody else who has done nothing.... think about the details...!
Who is going to feed him and support him ?
and...who is going to clean him/her up ?
Execution would be a better option than keeping a person alive with both hands missing.
there are better resolutions for problems of that sort , then body mutilation or torture.


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3:04 pm    October 10, 2003
thinker
159
moha i'm very sorry to read that kind of words in your message because you insulting not only mullahs and ben laden but you insulting the whole muslims ( if you are muslim you should know that bear is from sunnah and it's not a costum) . We are agree that ben laden's way is not right but also we should have clean language when discussing in any subject. reaspct the readers BRO.

Adnane: plz read thewhole messages and stop those in which they unrespectful words.

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2:57 pm    October 10, 2003
realityCheck
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The subject is: Israel Strikes in Syria After Suicide Bombing. Israelis are Jewish (most of them at least), Syrians are both Muslims and Christians, and the Americans who help the Israelis are mostly Christians. Do you see the pattern here. These three religions killing each other like crazy while the Hindus and Buddhists are laughing at us Muslims/Christians/Jews telling the world that we accept each other. This is hypocrisy!

Jazzakomo Allaho Khairan, Wa ssallam

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2:50 pm    October 10, 2003
thinker
157
assalamou alaikoum first

ok ok ... i don't know what is the subject now. it looks you guys talking avout many subjects. In a real Islamic governement. before the punishement of cutting hands of theifs, the judge must first make investigation about the whole conditions that pushed this person to make this sin (maybe he had the right to steal if he is hungry and didn't have many to feed his family). You should first read the islamic history before making your judgement, read about OMAR IBN ALKHATAB (radia allahou 3anho) when he suspended the punishement of stealing at the time of (secheresse). PLZ discussing such big subject needs first to learn more about it ,cause you ganna mislead a lot of people about our peaceful religion and you ganna punished for that in the day of judgement.

assalamou 3alykoum

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2:41 pm    October 10, 2003
realityCheck
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Dear Negotiator:

You need to learn about compassion and love. These two virtues seem to be missing from your string of thinking. Cutting people's hands and killing them as you suggest, is exactly the kind of violent things that lead to intolerance and demise of religion. I agree with you that Islam does not reject Judaism and Christianity, however "extremist Muslims" do reject Jews and Christians (You certainly reject these two religions).

Here is a simple question:

If Islam accepts these two religions, then they must be good. With this logic, a good Christian and a good Jew are just as good as a good Muslim. Therefore Islam is not the ONLY good religion, Christianity is a good religion and Judaism is a good religion.

Be honest with yourself, do you believe in your "heart" that Christianity and Judaism are just as good as Islam?. If yes, then you can practice Christianity and Judaism and you will be just as good.

Jazzakomo Allaho Khairan, Wa ssallam

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2:16 pm    October 10, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
155
154
Hey dear reality check,
I think you are making amistake or you probably don`t know THAT ISLAM DOESN`T REJECT JUDAISM OR CHRISTIANITY, why are you saying that Muslims REJECTED ???? do you know that you are not consider a muslim if you don`t believe in Allah, ALLA HIS MESSENGERS(THEIR RELIGION) ,all the books , the angels and the last day, so don`t spread your missunderstanding here, as i said before , you shouldn`t say things that you are not sure about, and regarding (business, product) i think Religion is not a product buddy,
by The way what was the religion before moses??? do you know? and by the way what was moses religion? or jesus`s ???

Antr, if you cut the thiefs hand you only cut one hand so he can still uses his other hand, we see people without hands and they manage to do good in life, but if you put him in jail you need to feed him, give him clothes, pay his electricity,water...., and then after he gets out he might do it again, but the one who has his hand cutten off, i don`t think he would try to steal again, if he does you`ll cut his other hand, and then you won`t see him stealing again.
if some one steals all your money and leave you with nothing, wouldn`t you wanna kill him in stead of cutting his hand?

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1:20 pm    October 10, 2003
realityCheck
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Dear Negotiator:

You seem to be in denial about the existence of Judaism and Christianity. First of all, it's normal for every new religion to act like it's the last one. When Moses (PBUH) came to the Jews, they rejected the religion before his coming, When Christianity was born under Christ (PBUH), Christians rejected Judaism. When Islam came under Mohammed (PBUH), Muslims rejected both the Jews and Christians. It does not make sense to accept a competitor (This is the nature of business) otherwise you are admitting that their religion is just as good or better than yours.

The more people you attract to your business the better the product that you have to offer, otherwise people will go somewhere else. As far as I know there are about 2 Billion Christians, 1.5 Billion Muslims, 100 Million Jews, 1 Billion Buddhists, and 1 Billion Hindu. This sounds like Christianity and other religions are very much alive and active!

Jazzakomo Allaho Khairan, Wa ssallam

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1:11 pm    October 10, 2003
The Man In The Moon
153
Hi Everybody:
I am so happy to see all these discussions and argumenst about Islam. It means that It still makes pple think and wonder, After 14 century now. Islam has been a target to many attacks from all around the globe, but it holds still. Day after day, we read in the news some new pple converted to Islam, which only means that It makes sense to a lot of pple. But I am shocked to see that many born muslims started doubting it, It's ok, cos in the end the truth shall be known. No matter what you guys think about our religion, just respect it and try to be rational in what you believe. I've never judged Chritianity or Judaism, till I have read much about them, and I keep my opinion to myself, so At least read about Islam then make your judgement, and don't go insulting pple like that. I am muslim and Proud to be one, and I wish you all peace.
Salam
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1:10 pm    October 10, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
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149
If you cut the thief's hand, you will have to feed him for the rest of his life.
Since I assume you wouldn't want him to beg in the streets since he wouldn't be able to support himself anymore...
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12:38 pm    October 10, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
151
You mentioned wara9a ibn nawfal ( cousin of khadija) when the prophet had the first wa7y, he went to khadija and we all know the story , she took him to wara9a ibn nawfal, and he told him what happened, you know why wara9a ibn nawfal will go to heaven ? because he told our beloved Prophet ( yalaytani kountou ma3aka li2oudafi3a 3ankka , yawmma youkhrijouka 9awmouka, so the prophet asked him, amoukhrejeyya houm? he replied yes ) so he was a mouwa77id and had knowledge about tourah and believed in the prophet(PBUH) and that`s why he went to heaven,
Regarding the prophet`s parents I`m sorry but you are wrong again no one knows if they are going to heaven or hell, the prophet (PBUH) WAS NOT EVEN ALLOWED BACH YESSTAGHFER TO THEM, Allah didn`t allow him to ask for his parents forgivness, so how would he know that they went to heaven??? see how you talk without knowing what you are talking about, SO WHAT`S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND THAT WHO SAY IT IS 7ALAL TO KILL A JEW OR A CHRISTIAN? you interpret the way you want and he does the same.
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12:37 pm    October 10, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
150
which one of the following religions is a BAD :
a. Islam
b. Christianity
c. Judaism
d. Christianity and Judaism
Answer:
First let me tell you that christianity and judaism are not religions , why? because the name judaism wasn`t known when moses was a prophet, the name christianity was created 400 after jesus, and neither one of those two prophet`s said he was a christian or a jew, they were both muslims, and even ibrahim who was before them was a muslim, (wamakan ibrahim yahoudian wala musliman walakine 7anifan musliman) BUT all this and we should not say we are better than them, there are good christians and good jews and good pagants, yes but God said on those that they will get their rewards but ONLY here in this life and will not see heaven in the here after because they associated some one with God or didn`t believe in him at all. so for those who were jews in the era of moses and did well of course they will go to heaven(god`s will) because they believed in the prophet of their time, and those christians who believed in jesus will as well go to heaven(inchallah) cause he was their prophet, but Those now christians and jews and ethiests, do you think they`ll go to heaven?? in my opinion i don`t think so because they don`t believe in the last messenger, and to go to heaven you have to believe in mohammed(PBUH) .
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12:35 pm    October 10, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
149
Example: If 16 years old teenager steals a one dirham cookie, under civil law he will get 1 month jail or community service, BUT under "Shariaa law interpreted by ignorants, this 16 years old teenager will have his/her hand CUT!.
Answer:
And once again you are wrong, go double check with the scholars and they will tell you that you don`t cut a hand of someone who steals a one dirham cookie, see how you missunderstand chari3a as well !!!! so that is why we have Quran and sunnah so no ONE neither you nore them( extremists) should interpret them the way it pleases them, but since there is extremists from the left side( moderns) that`s why we see ta66arrouf in the right side(extremist islamists) alislam din wassa6, so we shouldn`t be too extremists but we shouldn`t be sooo open or moderates. because Again God said ( Innaha hada lkitaba yahddi lillatti hiya a9wam) so there isn`t any thing to follow better than this book(QURAN) .
To your knowledge, during the 7ukm alislami for 400 years , only 2 cases of cutting hands that happened, can you tell me ni any other nation that you will have only 2 thiefs in 400 years??? when you cut a thiefs hand others will be scared of doing it, if not well at least those who steal once won`t have that hand to steal again, so it is better to protect people from thiefs than to protect thiefs from chari3a. in some statistics that i`ve seen before america said that a single prisoner cost them 30,000 dollars a year, so he steals and we feed him and give me home and, and..., if we cu his hand we won`t have to spend money on him, and others will learn.
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11:30 am    October 10, 2003
mb
148
can u please stop calling those taliban and ben laden ppl monkeys...it is disrespectful for the monkeys....cheers:)))
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11:16 am    October 10, 2003
realityCheck
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142
This is what 90% of the world Muslims want:

1. Go to the Mosque and do my prayers if I want to!
2. Go to the beach with my friends (boys and girls) whenever I want to
3. Respect other religions and other points of view
4. Have a civil law that reflects the 21st century: no hand cutting, no Supreme Religious leaders, no Majesties, Sheikhs, Mullahs, etc...controlling the progress of Islam
5. Live in peace among other nations and among ourselves (no more of these tribal leaders using the Koran and Shariaa misinterpretations to start wars with other tribes, this is how Jerusalem was lost and how the middle east got screed)
6. Hijab and beard are optional and should not mean that we have "GOOD MUSLIMS" because of that
7. Islam and Politics must be separated. Islam is good and politics is BAD, when you combine the two, (GOOD+BAD)/2 = semi-BAD and that is not good enough for Islam
8. Never allow Islam to be Hijacked by fundamentalist. They will corrupt it as we are seeing right now
9. Islam of the 21st century should be called the "New Islam" in order to clean its image from the "Old Islam" that the fundamentalists have corrupted.
10. Wearing shorts to play soccer and run a marathon in New York to represent a Muslim nation must be declared HALAL by all Muslim nations.
11. vote for me as the Supreme Leader of the Muslim Nation, I promise to clean up the mess!

Jazzakom Allaho Khairan, Wa ssalam!

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11:13 am    October 10, 2003
mb
146
131
nego,
rani m3ak a zine....je comprends tt a fait ce ke tu veux dire par l islam n est pas injuste...certes ...mais tu vois ca d un cote masculin ( at least your nick says that)...il faut essayer de se mettre a la place des femmes marocaines...et de comprenmdre k il y a une certain instabilite...une certaine peur...moi personelement je ne me vois pas dependre de qq1....mon pere m a appris a me demerder tte seule...je ne veux pas d un mari ki va etouffer mon epanouissement ou ki va decider de mes faits et geste...et la lois au maroc donne au pere et au mari ce droit...mon pere signe donne l autorosation pour ke j ai un passeport ...mais apres ca tu crosi ke c est moi ... ki a ma majorite vaios decider noooooooon ....la femme n est pas bien place pour decider de ces fait et geste c est son mari ki lui donne l autorisation...( le pass c est juste un exemple)...non c est pas une vie... dependre de qq1 c est comme etre empute d un membre....( je touche du bois)...
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11:01 am    October 10, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
145
In my humble opinion, being Muslim is a way of life that developed since man was created. It is to think critically about life around you for you will forever be intrigued by the creator. Consequently you could develop a relationship with the creator, one of love, respect and eagerness to see and meet the creator one day. it is to be aware that you can be responsible for many aspects of earth, earth's creatures, and that you've been honored by a super power to take that responsibility. You will realize you've been given hands to manipulate things, feet to move, senses to monitor your environment, a brain to process thoughts and behaviour. You will realize you've been given all this for free. Eventually, you seek to improve life around you for yourself and for others because you realize it brings you joy and it makes the super power happy to see its design improving and being taken care of; This results in you studying life around you and learning from the wisdom of this super power's design so that you acquire more knowledge to take care of things. Reducing this whole life model to boxes where you put labels such as "Muslim", "Jew", "Christian", "Polisario", stuff people in and cease all communication among them, is a violation of the super power's intention of what the model of life should be. I do believe that most religions aspire to the super power's concept of operations, but they differ in the intricate details. People have different cognitive capacities that may or may not allow them to understand these details fully. The super power as I think of it may not punish a person whose cognitive capacity cannot comprehend certain details. Everyone could be treated uniquely.
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10:56 am    October 10, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
144
Responding to the general posts that dealt with Islam somewhere in this discussion:

Many diseases have been cured on the hands of Nobel prize laureates and scientists, who are not "Muslims" by label but by potential. Many of these men and women are christian, jews, or what have you.

I think that one may want to go through the following excercise:

1. Strip yourself from the label "Muslim". Label yourself with just "human" for a while.

2. Look hard for a definition of "Muslim" (may take you much of critical thinking, several book readings from different sources, digging in your background, discussions such as this one..etc)

3. Examine yourself, your qualities, your strengths and weaknesses.

4. See if you have a certain "potential" that reflects what a Muslim ought to be. Also consider closely what people think of you, so you can make as objective of a judgement as you can about yourself.

5. Adopt Islam if you are intrigued, now you may label yourself as "Muslim".

6. Look at more of Islam's scope, details, and flexibilities; live it, and repeat steps 2-6.

The following excercise is very abstract, and there is no guarrantee that it will work. I am not liable for any damages caused by using this exercise. But I hope I will be rewarded if it works for you :)

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10:16 am    October 10, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
143
correction:
first paragraph "shaf" should read "Shah"
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10:15 am    October 10, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
142
RealityCheck,

We're in agreement. I do take issue with the Iran revolution though. It was a response to a corrupt regime that was brutalizing its people in its own way. The shaf was no friend to the masses. He was merely the appointed protector of the oil reserves in that country. Obviousely, the same thing could be said now about most oil producing countries.

Also, it is somewhat unfortunate that the word "Shari3a" should send shivers through everyone's body and make their hair on their back stand up. It is not all to different from any other law. It was put in place to protect people against offenders. It is driven by the principle of punishment against aggression (which to my knowledge all other forms of law are based on.)

Perhaps the chopping of the heads and hands is what scares people, but there have been many interpretations offered that radically altered those forms of punishment even during the time of the Sahaba (so hold off you fitnah emails): emprisonment for example which has been adopted in the Muslim world since the early centuries.

Shari3a a-la-Taliban is a rusty concept. It requires the work of the 3ulama to invest in it. The prophet did not prohibit people from making alterations that suited their environment (man sanna sunnatan hassanatan fa lahou ajrouha ila yawmi lqyama;) someone could perhaps recall the hadith in its correct form but the meaning is the same.

Salaam

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9:33 am    October 10, 2003
realityCheck
141
140
Moha: It is a very simple concept: The Muslim world is ruled by two types: The Extremist Islamists and the "Corrupt rulers".
The cycle that we, in the Islamic world are in is that Islam has been Hijacked by the fundamentalists (What you refer to as Monkeys, and somehow I find myself amused by that term because Monkeys have hair all over their faces, they must be "GOOD MUSLIMS" ) . These guys tell us that the "Corrupt rulers" are BAD and we need to go back to Shariaa law. And once these extremists succeed in getting power, they start misinterpreting the Koran and Shariaa and rule the people with an iron fist (example Iran, remember the Islamic revolution. so far the Iranian people have not seen the corruption gone away and at the same time, the religious people (also known as Monkeys) are brutalizing the people).

You see the cycle: get rid of "Corrupt rulers you get Monkeys, and when you get rid of the Monkeys, you get back to the corrupt rulers. The 90% of Muslims around the world want a CLEAR civil law in place for all of us to follow and be held accountable for and the freedom to practice my Islam the way I see fit. I do not need a Monkey telling me my Islam is bad and HIS way is the only way.

Jazzakomo allho Khairan, Wa ssalam

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8:31 am    October 10, 2003
Moha
140
Reality Check
Don't waste your breath,these islamists monkeys don't understand logic.It's too complicated for them, let's them follow moulah omar or bin laden.
Amazing,how hypocritical are these Islamists are, they hate kaffir land (namely america&europe) but u never see them immigrating to Iran or Afghanistian.Instead they like to immigrate to US,Canada and any country where the all mighty Dollar exist. If theses not hypocricy then what is it? please explain to me, I'm lost about this islamist's hypocrisy.
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7:47 am    October 10, 2003
realityCheck
139
135
continued from 138...

After 1500 years of the Islamic faith, can you give me one example in the last 500 years where Shariaa law was applied successfully without abuse?

The reason why civil law is for civil societies is because we live in an age where the internet, satellites, cell phones, TV, media, etc...allows you learn about other points of view without being brain washed by so called religious scholars without a baccalaureate degree.

The way I see Islam is that after 1500 years of evolution, Islam will have to be split and renamed as follows: New Islam (where 90% of the world Muslims want to be) and the Old Islam where the people who are still defining Islam in terms of Hijab, long beard, and hatred towards other religions and people who think differently.

Remember history: Christianity was divided into Protestant and Catholics because the church after 1500 years of Christianity, kept the old way of doing things, until the German Martin Luther?? said enough!

I want to be part of the New Islam!
Jazzakomo Allah Khairan, Wa ssalam!

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7:46 am    October 10, 2003
realityCheck
138
135
Again my friend! you are not answering the question because I gave you 4 choices and you know if you pick anyone of them, you will be a hypocrite. So you are making my point again. Shariaa law gets interpreted in many, many different ways and once again, if you give the Islamists extremists the power to implement Shariaa according to their views, woman will ALWAYS be the first victims (i.e. stupid things like: School is Haram for girls, wearing pants is Haram, a school with both boys and girls is Haram, internet is Haram, Haram this Haram that, etc...) And the problem is once the Mullahs are in charge, you try to express your opinion is also Haram (yes you die without a trial) because the Mullah said so!
Afghanistan, Iran, Saudia, Sudan, Nigeria, NOT one country trying Shariaa law has succeeded, why? it does not work. You can't impose your beliefs on others.

continued...

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7:24 am    October 10, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
137
Check this non-sense I received this morning in my email. Some over here could be interested :)

--------------
Assalaamu Alaikum
BROTHER IN ISLAM,I AM DR ABDUL AMIN, I AM A
HIGH RANKING GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL IN MY COUNTRY,AND I
HAVE BEEN IN POWER FOR YEARS NOW.
I AM SICK NOW AND IF NOT FOR MY SICKNESS I WOULD NOT
HAVE EVER THOUGHT OF DOING THIS,AS I NEVER BELIEVED IN
GIVING OUT ZARKAT OR KEEPING TO ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT
OF ALLAH THROUGH HIS HOLY PROPHECT MOHAMMED (PHUB).
I HAVE JUST BEEN TOLD BY MY ALFA, WHO HAS BEEN PRAYING
FOR ME SINCE I TOOK ILL,THAT IF I DO NOT PAY MY ZARKAT
THAT I WILL DIE OF MY SICKNESS,AND WHEN I DIE I WLL
NOT MAKE HEAVEN,I AM SO AFRAID OF NOT MAKING IT
HERE-AFTER AS IT WOULD MEAN AN ENTERNAL PAINS.
ALTHOUGH MY HEALTH IS GETTING BETTER NOW,I WANT TO
GIVE SOME MONEY THAT I HAVE IN DUBAI AND LONDON,HOLLAND
OUT,BOTH VALUED INTO MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
I DECIDED CONTACTING BROTHERS THAT ARE FAR AWAY THAT I
EVEN DO NOT KNOW FOR TWO REASONS,ONE I WAS ADVICED BY
MY MALAM TO DO SO, ALSO I WILL NOT WANT TO EXPOSE
MYSELF IN MY NEIGHBOURHOOD,AS SUCH BIG MONEY BY ME TO
ANY PERSON HERE WOULD EXPOSE ME DEFINITELY.
JUST PRAY FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF MY SINS ONCE YOU
RECIEVE THIS FUND AND ASK ALLAH TO ADD MORE YEARS TO
ME.
PLEASE MAIL ME TO GIVE YOU DIRECTIVE ON HOW TO GET THE FUND OUT IN EUROPE.
ALL THE BEST
MASSALAM
DR ABDUL AMIN
----------------

·

7:22 am    October 10, 2003

abdelilah message
136
Dear negotiator,

I just want to say few things regarding what you have written. I espouse your view that hijab is fard, even if there is a respectable school of thought of feminist Islam led by Khalid Abulfadl and Amina Wadud which gives a reasonable argument for the historicity of hijab. Furthermore, many people confuse the 'fard' as a hukm in shari3a and enforcement. Prayer is fard but you do not force people to pray -except in hanbali madhab- so if society is secular it will pick secular laws and this is democracy.
Regarding Islam and the two ayats you mentioned, Islam can be understood as surrender and not the shari3a of islam because prophet Abraham was considered a muslim. Abu Hamed El Ghazali has an interesting view about sincere christians not going to hell. Waraqa ibn nawfal told the prophet sidna Mohammed pbuh about the wahy after he received angel Gabriel died as a non-Muslim and will go to paradise. The parents of the prophet as well. So the debate is bigger than that. Of Course Ibn Arabi's mystical saying 'and my heart has been able to accomodate every form' is a tawhidi experiential account of difference. In statistical language, the more you move toward one the more certain you are. A perfect correlation is one too.

·

7:17 am    October 10, 2003
muslim
135
check reality
that's really harmful when i heard something like that coming from a person that he said he is a Muslim. in this small article , i don't wanna talk about your islam or your faith , what i wanna talk about that you don't have the right to judge the whole religion and the whole ISlam based on your knowldege from CNN, BBC and MA'ARIF, before you can talk about the Shari3a just take time and read the Quran and the sunnah and sa7i7 lboukhari wa muslim and after that start opening your mouth and give your judgement. you said you live in Morocco you go to downtown Casa and Rabat instead of that go to sidi moumen and tacharouk and you'll understand why many moroccans started looking for a safe window even if it's a wrong getaway just to be far from the people like you who live in california de Casablanca (the people who steal 9ARD LFILA7i and la RAM)and they wanna the changement in that country. the people like you who forced us to leave that country but for sure we'll be back to sweep the so-called muslim morrocan like you from the power of our country.

It's just an opinion, don't be angry.

·

7:05 am    October 10, 2003
realityCheck
134
132
I notice two things about your point of view. I will only mention one in this answer:
1. You seem to be racist in stating that Islam is superior than other religions and basically all other religions are bad. Here is a very simple question: which one of the following religions is a BAD religion (i.e., a HARAM religion)
=======================
a. Islam
b. Christianity
c. Judaism
d. Christianity and Judaism
========================
Based on your previous inputs, I would guess that your answer will be (d), I may be wrong though.
So, why are we (Muslims) surprised when other ignorant people from other faiths (Christianity and Judaism) do the same thing to us, i.e. call us backward religion, terrorists, hypocrites, etc...I do thing the Majority of Muslims (and other religions as well) )are struggling with how to accept other religions. For Muslims, in theory we say Christians and Jews are Ahlo Al Kittab (people of the book) but in practice it seems that accepting the Christians and Jews is similar to admitting that they are just as good as Islam. From a business point of view, you are admitting that your competitor has a better and solid product!
·

6:48 am    October 10, 2003
realityCheck
133
131
Exactly my point. Allowing these ignorant men to use Shariaa as the law, more misiterpretations will happen (i.e: no girls allowed in schools, only teacher and nurse work for women, no going to the mosque, etc...). These are the silly stupid things that quickly become inforced under any regime that wants to use Shariaa law. Why? because Shariaa can be quickly misiterpreted and once the "Mullah's" are in charge, if you dare to give another opinion, you will DIE! no freedom of speech, etc...

It's very simple: Civil law is what civil societies must follow. Example: If 16 years old teenager steals a one dirham cookie, under civil law he will get 1 month jail or community service, BUT under "Shariaa law interpreted by ignorants, this 16 years old teenager will have his/her hand CUT!.

I prefer CIVIL law, otherwise, the MAJORITY of Moroccans (and Muslims everywhere) will have no hands and will be unable to use the internet to express their opinions!

Jazzakoum Allaho Khairan. Wa ssalam!

·

6:33 am    October 10, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
132
The hijab is fard so muslim women should be known as muslims and not molested (3amerkoum cheftou chi wa7ed tabe3 chi ikhwaneya kaynougg 3liha)

My sister does not wear Hijab, does her prayers, help a lot of charities, and I consider her a good human being (good Muslim if that makes you happy).
Answer:
No body can tell who is a good muslim and who is not, you can assume , but you might be wrong, God will reward your sister for what she is doing BUT the Hijab is Fard in Islam and all the scholars agreed about it and Prophet (PBUH) said it clearly not to show any thing else but your face and hands...,
regarding the Beard it is not a fard but it a sunnah, you can have it or you can`t , so it is not who has the longest beard that will be a better muslim or that who wears the hijab is a better muslimah, there are wonderful girls that prays and do all their islamic duties but still don`t wear alhijab, we can`t say they are bad muslims, just like we can`t say that all muta7ajibate are good muslims.., Innama al2a3malou benneyat,

The bottom line is: Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindu, Budhists, etc...are all equal in the eyes of their creator.
Answer:
No i don`t agree because God said ( inna akramakoum 3inda allahi at9akoum) so there you go we are not all equal, lli att99a men lakhour 7ssen 3and allah men lli mat9ich.

But we shall not think we are better than any body, we should work hard to please God and always ask for his guidance And forgiveness, and of course Muslims should stop thinking that they are the best in the world BUT they should keep in mind that ISLAM is the only and Only valid Religion in the world.( waman ibtagha ghayra alislami dinan falan you9bala minh) ( Inna addina 3inda allahi alislam)

·

5:56 am    October 10, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
131
la suite :
The cause for that is that most women don`t know about their religion, is it their fault ? NO not entirely, because if her father teached her about her religion she will stand for her rights even if she won`t gain any thing on earth but she will definetly be rewarded in the here after, most women in morocco are not educated, they don`t say any thing to their husbands because they see how women are treated in morocco, and they can`t say a word cause they don`t know if they have the right, same goes for men most our men don`t treat their wives the way God ordered them to, because they don`t know or they don`t want to know, so it is a question of fear of God, we see a lot of happy couples , religious happy couples as well, they know their rights, for example a lot of men in morocco don`t allow their wives to go to the mosque!!! knowing that it is forbidden for men not to let their wives to go to the mosque, who`s fault is it ? both men and women...,
·

5:56 am    October 10, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
130
pas de problem MB,
When i gave you what Islam offers to women in the case of heritage and co, i didn`t give any examples i just said what islam give you, so if you bring an Example of that poor woman, i will tell you again it is not islam`s fault that her brother didn`t take care of her, it is his fault , why do we have to say islam is injuste because somebody didn`t follow it, and we`ll come back to the conclusion as you said if he feared god he wouldn`t do that, or even if he didn`t if we were in an islamic country the judge should give her the rights she deserves , under islamic rules she can take him to court for that and get her rights, that islam gave her.
ya aussi des hommes ki souffrent , some are even beaten by their wives some are misstreated..., but we don`t blame islam for that we blame their ignorance, same goes for men if they do something that because of their ignorance.

a suivre

·

2:36 am    October 10, 2003
Moha
129
Fucking Islamists Monkeys ,why can't u live in peace with the rest of the world?? You think all non-muslims are no good?? Fuck you, look at Edward Said he's been defending Islam better than your fucking Moullah Omar Or Bin Laden
·

11:49 pm    October 9, 2003
Moha
128
Hi Adnan,Ok let me introduce myself ,I'm a moroccan who just discovored ur site recently. All I can say bravo "tberkallah 3alik" you're doing a great job, But i was shocked by the level of intolerance of some members, what's the hell is going on ,is this morocco site or some fricking jihadi web site?? we're all muslims and we don't need theses islamists monkeys give us lessons in Islam. Ok they want to practice true Islam, no problem, all they have to do is go back to their caves and stop using the internet because that's a kaffir invention totally Haram in islam.
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8:39 pm    October 9, 2003
mb
127
hey...why do we have to wear the hijab? why do we have to cover our hair??? and for those who believe in la borka....why do we have to cover even our faces..? i really wanna know...
oh just wanna share with u a little thing that happened to me in morocco this summer...i was walking on the beach and that s when i saw a girl comming out of the water...she was wearing 7ijab....and was dressed all in beige....and guess what beige clothes with water....ca fait effet de t-shirt mouille.....you could see everything....i though it was disgusting ...am sorry...i know that not all mou7tajibat are doing that but that was just tooooo shocking for me ....and there are other girls who wear 7ijab just to get a husband...or others that sit at le repere in Bd zerktouni in casa who specialize in S.A ppl ....girls who put the 7ijab because they are convinced of wearing it ..i do respect their choice...but the others ...non ...car je suporte pas l hypochrisie...surtt avec dieu
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7:39 pm    October 9, 2003
Ali
126
124
Is there anything else that Islam has to offer besides Hijab for women and beard for men? We are spending way too many centuries explaing the same silly outer-appearances to qualify a person as good Muslim or not.

My sister does not wear Hijab, does her prayers, help a lot of charities, and I consider her a good human being (good Muslim if that makes you happy).

My neighbor wears a beard to his chest, he is grampy all the time, and gives dirty looks to teenager boys and girls coming from a fun day at the beach. Is he a good Muslim? I do not know. He does seem to have a big black mark on his forehead (they tell me that the black forehead mark is a sign that you pray a lot) but personally, I do not think he is the type of person teenagers want to associate with.

The bottom line is: Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindu, Budhists, etc...are all equal in the eyes of their creator. Muslims should stop thinking that they are superior and more right than the rest of the world.

Jazaakomo Allho Khairan. Salaam

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7:28 pm    October 9, 2003
Moha
125
Sister Muslima
Again the 2nd aya u posted didn't explicitly mention the hijab,all it says that women have to dress modestly,the key word here is "modesty".As for the hadith u mentionned,all i can say that's a weak hadith.If muslims follow every hadith they won't be able to funtion in today's society.For exemple Saudia Arabia don't allow women to drive.Or maybe you're committing a big sin in Islam just by using the internet. And please don't tell me I can't discuss islam on this forum Intellectual intimidation (or intellectual terrorism) won't work,everybody is debating islam these days, so get used to it.
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6:56 pm    October 9, 2003
A Muslima
124
salams,
If you know few verses in Koraan, that does not make of you any better, you are asking me read the Koran, well let me tell you something, I have rear it, and I personaly don't wear hijab, but at least I admit that it is fard, there are other words of describing hijab rather than the word itself, if that aya was not sufficient for you here is another one:

"Say to the believing man that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that will make for greater purity for them; and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do. And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; and that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands..." (Qur'an 24:30-31

now the Koran is not sufficient for a real muslim, because the hadith accomplish it and here is what the prophet (s.a.w) said:

Ayesha (R) reported that Asmaa the daughter of Abu Bakr (R) came to the Messenger of Allah (S) while wearing thin clothing. He approached her and said: 'O Asmaa! When a girl reaches the menstrual age, it is not proper that anything should remain exposed except this and this. He pointed to the face and hands." (Abu Dawood)

one more thing people like you are fitna for our umma, so please keep your advices for yourself, because any real muslim will not agree with you.

salams

·

6:37 pm    October 9, 2003
mb
123
vs savez koi c est vraiment marrant ...mais ou avons ns laisse la syrie ds tt ca???? c etais pas le sujet initial.....???????
heureusement ke la paix ne repose pas sur nos epaules.....
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6:29 pm    October 9, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
122
I have read some messages in this discussion that contain foul language, which flags red alert. Raioo is NOT for these people. Those posters are banned. I have been patient in hopes that they change their tone towards others and let us all enjoy a clean discussion no matter how different our opinions are.
·

6:12 pm    October 9, 2003
mb
121
Nego, suite
ahhh oui la femme reflechit avec son coeur( c est un compliment a double tranchant) ANTR a tt dis ds son comment.....en gros oui c est bo cette idee..the man who takes care of everything... c est geant...mais...eh oui y a tjs un mais...kand on voit ca ds le contexte de la vie actuelle ben ca tient pas la route....
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6:11 pm    October 9, 2003
mb
120
Nego
merci d avoir repondu a ma question , j apprecie ca de ta part...je n etais pas au courant ke les mecs avaient besoin de l accord du pere pour avoir un passport ( c etait k un exemple mais bon une info de plus pour moi :)))..en ce ki concerne le fait k en tant ke femme je n ai rien a depenser ( une idee ke j apprecie assez ..plus d argent pour mon shopping...) et que c est a l homme ( ke ce soit ds ce cas mon pere, frere ou mari..)de subvenir a mes besoin....je reponds c est bien joli tt ca ....mais bon imaginons que le pere meurt...il laisse une fille et un garcon ...fille pas marie...garcon marie avec 4 gosses...k est ce ki ns garantie ke son frere va prendre soin d elle....je connais une bonne femme meskina ...elle est a la mercie de son frere...elle a 40 ans ya 3ibad lah ...elle a pas de boulot ...pas de mari...et elle soufrre...il lui donne rien ...elle est traite comme une bonne f dar baha....tu vois ce ke je veux dire ....les gens ont change nego...tu peux pas compter sur ki ke ce soit de nos jours...ca fait peur ...c est pour ca ke je dis ke c est injuste....l homme peut divorcer la femme kand il veut ...oui il a besoin de raison ...mais bon elle peut tres bien ne pas etre au courant k il a l intention de la divorcer et lui envoyer sa feuille kif kaygoulou.....je sais c est pas moral ...tu vas peut etre dire ke ds le cas de la premiere femme son frere n est pas un " good muslim" mais on va pas s arretter la a dire ki est bon muslim ou pas ...ca n a aucune importance ca ...ce ki compte c est k il y a des femmes ki souffrent car la lois donne un peu plus de pouvoir a l homme...un pouvoir ki est mal utilise....u see what i mean...
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4:36 pm    October 9, 2003
Moha
119
X, come on man a good muslim like u shouldn't curse "na3lato allah 3ala man rafa3a sawtaho, ina oula ika homo el fassi9oun",ur behaviour is big no no in islam,totally HARAM,end of the story.
Now tell me why u get offended? I'm only attacking Islamist extremists ,unless you're one of thoses terrorists sleeping cell waiting for order from uncle ousama.There's a differance beween peaceful muslims (silent majority) and extremistes mad dogs like u.And by the way pass my salam to your brothers ahmed&mohamed in Guatanamo bay na3lato allah 3alyhoun illa yawmi el 9iyama. Ameeeeeeeen
·

3:00 pm    October 9, 2003
Casawi79
118
106
has any one thought u not to answer a question by a question!
also i wasn't being sarcastic u seem to have different believes that's the reason why i asked my question.
and if u have different believes u have to respect others'
·

3:00 pm    October 9, 2003
X
117
na3ltou lahi 3lik ya dak l kaffir dyal Moha. I bet you yourself look like a monkey. I dare you send your picture and let us see your pretty face. Inshallah, you will get your punishment in earth before hell. Ya rab ya khoud fik l 7a9, ya 3adowa allah. Yal fassi9.
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2:25 pm    October 9, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
116
113
i Agree with you because you are talking about these days, and we all know that ISLAM or real Islam doesn`t exist in these days, only some few people, but hey if we have a complete imane we wouldn`t even ask about something that is in the quran, when god orders something we should accept it and not question it, even if you don`t understand it.
i find it hard to accept but hey i have faith in Allah and that is why i accept any thing in the Quran..., walhamdou lillah
·

2:00 pm    October 9, 2003
realityCheck
115
114
I agree with you! The word Hijab does not appear in the Koran at all. dressing modestly is what the Koran intends. This is the kind of misinterpretations of the Koran that gives Islam a bad image.

I am sick and tired of people defining Islam by 2 things: Hijab for women and a long beard for men.

Looking at Christianity and Judaism, it seems that the majority of Muslims want to separate themselves from the Hijab and beard circle and create something similar to Protestants and Catholic.

About 1500 years after Christ (PBUH), the German Martin Luther created the Protestant Christianity in order to move away from the strict rules of Catholics. Since it's almost 1500 years since Islam was created, I think it is probably time for Islam to branch into two separate entities: "New Islam" vs. Old Islam. The "New Islam" will definitely attract 90% of the world Muslims and will even attract Christians and Jews. The Old Islam (by this I mean these people who want Jihad, FORCED Hijab, FORCED beards, cut people hands, stone people to death, etc...) will then be on its own so that the world media will focus on the two major divisions of Islam. What do you all think!

Jazzakomo Allaho Khairan. Wa sslam

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1:41 pm    October 9, 2003
Moha
114
Sister Muslimah,please pay attention,I didn't say Islam is stupid, I said some muslims are stupid,and the hijabis jihadis girls are ugly because they give bad image to islam.The Qu'ran didn't say explecitly to women must wear the Hijab,the aya u posted only ask the women to dress modestly.The hijab is a modern invention of the crazy Mullah of iran.Go and read the whole Qu'ran you'll never find the word "Hijab" in the Qu'ran. So don't tell me I don't know Islam.So I repeat again the Qu'ran dosen't mandate wearing the Hijab therefore is not Fard.
·

1:35 pm    October 9, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
113
108
Negociator - There could be some "hidden truth" there that I am not aware of ... But personally, I would trust an average Finnish woman than an average Moroccan man.
As I would trust a Finnish female judge, rather than 2 Moroccan male judges.

There you see, honesty and good judgement can be learned like learning maths ... it has nothing to do with the gender.


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1:22 pm    October 9, 2003
realityCheck
112
105
RealMuslim: based on your temper in your answer, you made my point. When we give people like you the power to use "Shariaa" as a law, you will do exactly what the Taliban did in Afghanistan, make the lives of women miserable by not allowing them to go to school, forcing Hijab on them, making man have a beard (the longest the beard, the "better Muslim" you are, Yeah right!!). If you look around the world, every society has politicians from the left, right, and independents (mostly moderates). Here's a challenge to you my friend: Show me one country in the world where religious law (including Shariaa, succeeded)? This is why the answer is zero: Too much Religious people do not use their heads. They are always 100% males!. They can't stand the fact that when they push people to be extremist religious things, they loose control of the people they try to govern.

So, As a Moroccan Muslim, I do not want to live under Shariaa law because it will be abused by the extremist religious people. I want to go to the Mosque. I want to go out with my girlfriend to the Casablanca beaches. I want to have fun and be happy. I want everybody to be happy (including "REAL MUSLIMS")

Jazakom Allaho Khairan, wa ssalam!

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1:21 pm    October 9, 2003
A Muslima
111
salams,
moha, if you want to chritisize Islam, then there are other sites just for that. and please stop calling my sisters and brothers in Islam by Monkeys. if you want to discuss any subject you are more than welcome, but don't be disrespectfull cause you will not learn anything, you will just be an ignorant for the rest of your life till you go to hell.

peace

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1:12 pm    October 9, 2003
A Muslima
110
salamoualikoum,

Moha,

I feel bad for you because your luck of knowlege about islam is very poor that you can't even make a difference between what is ugly and dramatic. If you clame yourself as a muslim, then the least thing that you can do is beleiving in it, if you don't want to follow it that's your own choice, no one will judge you except Allah(s.w.t), but denying it is wrong! Our prophet Mohammed(s.a.w) and God set the rules for us, we are not setting the rules for ourselves. we only follow what they ve said.
HIJAB is FARD just like salat or siyam. Practicing is different from beleiving. if you think that Islam is ugly then that is your opinion, Only a hypocrite will agree with you.

well if you did not know that there is so many verses in Koraan that makes hijad obligatory then here you go:
"O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women to draw their outer garments around them (when they go out or are among men). That is better in order that they may be known (to be Muslims) and not annoyed..." (Qur'an 33:59)

Dud, please next time if you say some stupid comment like hijab is ugly(astaghfirullah) then proove it instade of talking like a stupid ignorant.

peace

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1:03 pm    October 9, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
109
Suite
... en heritage le fils a droit au double de la fille....etc...
Answer:
why is that because the Man is responsible for taking care of his wife and kids, so if i have a daughter and a son and i die my son will get double what my daughter will get because he will have a wife and a house to take care of, my daughter will have half what her brother got plus her husband will take care of her, and guess what, a woman can keep her money and not spend a cent from it, and her husband have to get her every thing she wants, so if the man get`s twice as her, she won`t spend it on him , but the man will spend it on her. 7ikmat allah. alors Miss MB tu est pas opprimee par cette loi...

si mon pere ne veut pas ke j ai un passeport ( meme apres la majorite )
Answer :
this applies also on men , cause my father doesn`t want me to have a passport so i can`t, because i have to obey him, 6a3at alwalidine 3alayna 7a99, we have to do every thing they ask us for ma3ada chirk billah...

I`m reading some books about women before and after islam, as soon as i finish i will let you know what i got from them.
cheers

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1:03 pm    October 9, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
108
TO MB,I appreciate you asking instead of insulting like others...

yep...je connais pas la shariaa pour en parler ...mais tt ce ke je sais c est que kand une femmes veut etre temoin ...il en faut 2 alors k il suffit d un homme pour ca
Answer :
OK the ayah says ( ...fasstachhidou chahidayni min rijalikoum, fa2in lam yakouna rajoulayni, farajouloun wamrra2atan mimman tardawna mina achouhada2, an taddilla i7dahouma fa toudakkira i7dahouma al2oukhra..) This law applies only in case of moneywise, God said that if we are to borrow MONEY we have to have witnesses either two men, but if there aren`t two men you can have a man and two women, because women use their heart more than they use their mind, they might get carried away, that`s why God said two of them so if one forgets the other one will remind her. ....

que l homme peut divorcer la femme kand bon lui chante...la femme doit faire une demande et bla bla bla
Answer :
L`homme peut pas divorcer la femme kand bon lui chante, he can`t divorce her without a reason he has to have a valid reason, same for her if she wants a divorce she need a reason , again men uses their mind before their heart women don`t, th`ts why in decisions like this the man can make better decision( not always). regarding women using their heart first , don`t take it as a bad thing it is a compliment and that is why men cannot give birth or raise kids, 7ikma men 3and allah.


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12:55 pm    October 9, 2003
Moha
107
Real Muslim=Real Loser
Allah is not helping u in Afghanistan,Allah is not helping u in Chechnia,Allah is not helping in Cashemire,I can go on on about islamist's defeat and humiliations.
Also allah is punishing u in Guatanamo Bay, and this just the beginning,life is going to be hard for ISLAMISTS MONKEYS from now on the whole world is against u ,because you're the ENEMIES OF HUMANITY
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12:31 pm    October 9, 2003
Moha
106
Casawi,you please explain to me what Islam is, you all seem to be experts on religion ,please educate me about islam
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12:30 pm    October 9, 2003
RealMuslim
105
Moha, mb, realityCheck and co are the fruit of those qwawed and zwaml who have governed our Morocco. If we had rjal in govnement, these fasiqeen and fasiqaat would be stoned to death for insulting Islam. Unfortunately, we are goverened by M6 ben H2 ben Leglawi, all of them qwaweed naalate allah alihum.
JL better than mutahajibat ! shame on you yamal qawaad. Nothing protects a woman better than Alhijab. Ask J L and she would herself say how dirty she is. Ask those lovely American and Western women why they had converted to Islam.You're nothing but a pervert. You love to see your girlfriend wearing nice jeans. Do you also love to see her taking them off for someone else. I'm sure she does because she knows you're not a man, you're a filthy sobitch who does anything to please others. So, they say you're civilized.
To all of you who defend Islam and Sharia the way it is, May Allah bless you and reward you. Please quit responding to these fasiqeen. They will not change because Allah Tabaa(sealed) ala qulubihim. We 'll meet the day when they will say: YA LAYTANI KUNTU TURABA.
Please don't respond to them. It is just giving them a chance to insult Islam.
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11:59 am    October 9, 2003
Casawi79
104
102
moha i would like to know what is islam to you and what are ur believed!
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11:55 am    October 9, 2003
mb
103
le desespoire pousse a l integrisme....j immagine ce que vivent ces fous d allah et ce ki les pousse a virer de l autre cote de la bariere....c est pas de leur fautes on ne doit pas les condamener ...c est des facteurs socio-culrurel ki ns echapent a tous, le jour ou le maroc ameliorera so system educatif et economic (mois d analphabetisation) ben on verra d etroiture d esprit et d integrisme....le jour ou les gens comenceront a penser avec leurs brain et non a reciter le coran betement...ben la je dirais k on sera sur la bonne voie ....il ns faut de la tolerance des deux cote ...du cote des ikhwaniyin et des non ikhwaniyin. et n oublions pas que notre liberte s arrette la ou commence la liberte des autres.
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11:38 am    October 9, 2003
Moha
102
Hey u Muslim ,I don't have a Porto- Rican girl-friend but I think jennifer lopez look so much better than your ugly jihadi hijabi sisters.
Now back to the topic,u said people who don't follow the Coran and the Sunna 100% are not muslims.End of the story.OK I agree with you,if we follow the Coran 100% we have to go and kill all the non-believers.Which mean we'll have a permanent jihad,and we'll not have peace until the whole world become muslim or submit to chari3a law.You islamists fanatic are fucking unbelievable, no wonder the french call u "les fous d'Allah",u simply out of ur minds,so dialogue with is useless..And by the way I SPEAK IN THE NAME OF THE SILENT MAJORITY OF PEACEFUL MUSLIMS who feel that some CRAZY FANTATICS like u have reduced Islamic civilisation to stoning a poor woman in Nigeria,or the imposition of the stupid hijab or burqa.Oh yeah thoses ISLAMISTS MONKEYS feel good when they oppresse women,oh yeah that true Islam.And where's this "Blad Allah"is located? your imaginary islamic paradise full with virgins and rivers of wine,I get so excited when I think about it, I just want to wrap myself with dynamite and explode,or hijack a plane and crush it into a building so I can get there faster.
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10:37 am    October 9, 2003
realityCheck
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100
continued from post 100:

I love going to the Mosque. I love going to the beach. I love going out with my girlfriend to the movies and to downtown Casablanca and Rabat. I love to see my girlfriend dress in nice Jeans and have fun with me on Saturday. I also love seeing her cover hear head when she does he prayers. I love the fact that our Islam and God love us to be happy and want happiness to others. Please do not take away this lifestyle from a lot of decent Moroccans

Thanks!

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10:36 am    October 9, 2003
realityCheck
100
99
First of all Islam and Politics should never mix. So far, I am not aware of a single "Muslim" country who was able to apply "Shariaa law" successfully (remember that within a decade of the death of Prophet Mohammed PBUH, the fighting started between successors: Shiaa and Sunni, etc...). All the current attempts to combine Shariaa with politics and modern laws have failed because of the fact that people nowadays are more educated and nothing stays hidden from them forever (in other words when Taliban people started to tell Girls not to go to school and wear Hijab etc.., they crossed a red line and you saw what happened (Thanks to America!)). Yes, Iran, Saudia, and Afghanistan tried to create the purest so called Islamic country, ALL of them are corrupt and shariaa was a trick to get a whole bunch of MEN to control people through "Religion".

I consider myself a Muslim and I refuse to have Shariaa be the law in a country of the 21 century. Actually, If shariaa becomes the law in Morocco, I would also like the option to declare myself a Christian or Jew or Bahai, or Hindu and be excused from being subjected to the misinterpretations of Shariaa by so called "righteous people" who think they know it all. By the way, I do think that Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc...are all good religions with good sides to them and bad sides to them. Also, for those of us who refuse to have Morocco ruled through Shariaa, do we have the option to ask for "Asylum" to another country (or are we going to die for even thinking about it?)

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10:25 am    October 9, 2003
mjinina
99
iyih a mouha 3la nta mi center city!
u keep talking and talking and talking just like Energizer bunny!!!
come on man wake up
we re all muslims . Shari3a is what our society is built on !!!
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9:27 am    October 9, 2003
muslim
98
moha u talking about the majority of muslims do not need the shariaa ( what are you talking about ??? muslim have to be under the law of the shari3a) islam is not christianity or other religions , you choose what is good for you and you kick off what you don't like (accept the law of allah is a necessity). saying that 7iajb is not accepted or beard is not accepted then , it's like saying that you don't have follow the Quran and the sunnah of Mouhammed peace be upon him.
anyway what i wanna say, u living in US, maybe you have a peurto -rican girlfriend and u started making your judjement . TALK ABOUT YOURSELF AND NOT ABOUT ALL MUSLIMS.
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2:56 am    October 9, 2003
Casaoui
97
96
That is sad Adnane, I read the report. I think according to the report morocco is getting better. Cause I read transpanrency repport of 1998 and morocco was worst at that time.
But any way this is can a good topic to discuss.
When try to discuss questions such is it possible to eradicate corruption ?
Is there a way to control coruption
what the diference between corruption in western world and our countries ?
etc...

peace

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8:40 pm    October 8, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
96
I hope the windy storms have passed away. It was a hot discussion and at times hard to follow. I personnaly see there are some of us who like to ask questions and enjoy finding solutions, the truth (maybe it's the problem-solving qualifications in us). Others who feel comfortable with just referring to religion for the answer without passing by the critical thinking phase. I see nothing wrong with any of the methods, except when either method produces the wrong answer. Both diverge at first, but hopefully converge towards the same point eventually.

Thank you all, good night and we'll have another one one of these days soon.

Here is something to open up your eyes about the Arab world:

Middle East leads the world in corruption for 2003

Middle East and North African (MENA) countries were the stars of corruption in 2003, according to Transparency International (TI). Out of 133 nations ranked on the anti-corruption watchdog?s Perceptions Index 2003, 12 countries from the region were ranked under 70th place....read more

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8:37 pm    October 8, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
95
94
as a matter fact the majority of muslims don't want to live under your chari3a law,why don't u respect their choice??

Moha, can you give us the link where you got this statistic please ??

casawi, i was the one who said you can be a good muslim and have the best car, because some one said we odn`t need to go back to the 12th century, cause they think if you practice islam the way it was 1400 years ago , we will have to live in tants and ride horses and camels, that was just to tell them that you can be as modest as you can but practicing islam, get the best technologies in the world, just like what our ancestors did when they were really applying islam, they translated greec books , to become how they became, they were ruling the world, people from europe used to send their kids to learn in andalusia and baghdad, cause the arabs were the leaders...

Adnane, sorry buddy we got carried away from the subject of the discussion... but what can you do 7na mgharba,

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7:50 pm    October 8, 2003
Moha
94
Lala Radia,what "mounkar" u talking about?? I don't want to live under ur chari3a law,why can't u understand that??????as a matter fact the majority of muslims don't want to live under your chari3a law,why don't u respect their choice?? You an your friends ikhwaniyin are nothing but a bunch of intolerants faschists don't deserve any respect in my opinion.The ikhwaniyins and ikhwaniyats are not only ugly,they also have no sense of humor.Hi smile for Allah
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6:38 pm    October 8, 2003
Radia
93
and i also want to correct something u've said : "ikhwani is NOT taliban!!!!!" wash w7da lli khtarte tstar rassha ou dir RABBI f9albha ou bine 3iniha mn taliban!!!! wash wa7ed lli tayra3i RABBI f a3malou ou dayer lla7ya mn taliban?!!!!!! i'm sure if one of the hollywood poeple let his beard grow all the guys will do the same and then it will be "WOOOW HOW NICE!!!!!". it's really decieving to read all these things,it hurts me sooo much .but hey let me ask u a question: what if,while u are sleeping, someone comes,LLAH i7fad, kills ur parents,ur brothers and ur sisters,ur children,ur wife, and tells u : GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE!!!! THIS PLACE IS MINE "knowing it is not,or distroys it?!! fama balak blli tayshouf khoutou tayt9atlou ou iddab7ou every sec!!!!!i would really like to know what will be ur reactions!
AND GUYS U KNOW WHAT, 7NA LMSALMINE ILA B9INA HAKKDA,WALLAH LA DERNA SHI 7AJA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! m9ablime shed liya n9ta3 lik ou lli bgha irba7 l3am twil!!!! lli ma9adsh ighayyar shi mounkar ighayrou bi9albihi,fadalika ad3afou l'imane. et f lQuran lkarim kayna wa7ed l'aya sub7ana mane anzalaha 3ala sayyidna Mohamed 3alayhi salate wa salam " la youghayyirou LLAH ma bi9awmine 7atta youghayyirou ma bi2anfousihim" ila koul wa7ed bda brassou ,ana ou nta ou houwa ou hiya ,inshaLLAH bezzaaaaf dl7wayej itbaddlou ou lkaffa trja7.
l'imane dialak oula diyal aye wa7ed binou ou bine LLAH sub7anahou wa ta3ala,amma l'Islam 9adiya dialna kamline !

Peace

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6:37 pm    October 8, 2003
Radia
92
Moha, it seems that u forgot one of the most important caracteristics of Islam : "Sali7oune li koulli zamane wa makane".what Nego said in his previous messages is the truth!!!u have to keep that in mind maan!!!all the things he said ma2khouda mn shari3a,and if u think that shari3a can't be applied nowadays, there probably is something wrong somewhere in ur understanding of Shari3a,BIIIIIIIIIIG TIME!!!. U haaaaave to understand that there's a big difference between a terrorist who uses whichever religion,islam,christianity,judaism for bad,personal purposes..and someone who believes in his religion. Islam did never ask any of us to fight whoever is not muslim!!! did u know that the first time rules of war have been created was during the first times of Islam by muslims!!! lmuslime dial bessa7 is against "DDALAM" ,kana mouslimane aw masi7iyane aw yahoudiyane. LLAH soub7anahou wa ta3ala said" 7arramtou ddolma 3la nafssi wa ja3altouhou bayna 3ibadi mou7arramane". magalsh ghir lmouslimine,jma3 l3ibad dialou kamline.
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5:57 pm    October 8, 2003
moulzarri3a
91
This is to Moha:

Moha being a good muslim does not mean being terrorist. if you can't understand that then you are not worthy of this discussion.
Generalizing and calling people names only shows how intellectually inferior to the other people in this discussion (same goes for X).
you are not the only Moroccan here, we all are so stop talking about Morocco like if it is your possesion, your precious. If the majority of Moroccans want shari3a then you will have to live under shari3a but if the majority decides that we don't need shari3a then everybody will have to do it. Howeevr, deviding Morocco into two parts is only a thing that you will see i your wildest dreams.

Ok now to the subject,
yes islam represents an ideal way of life but right now the international condition will not allow an islamic state to see the light of day. We are weak, we are crushed, we are under their mercy and we can't do anything about it. And as the french say "on doit se baisser jusqu'a ce que la tempete passe", i.e. we have to deal with what we have and not be too picky about details and work hard on the economy because it is the only thing that will allow our resurection. I hope everyone got my point and i surely hope nobody misinterprets my message.
Regards...

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5:20 pm    October 8, 2003
Casaoui
90
89
Franklly Moha, u show lot of disrespect to people.
U're using offending words (taliban, benladen, ikhwaniying, etc..)
I didn't a single message defending taliban or binladen. I didn't see any message saying that islam should be practiced in morocco by any means.
Regarding taliban, no one said there doing right. Personnally I don't even know if they exist same thing as alqaeda. And if they exist, they' re surlly not on the right path at least according to how the media is describing them. All what I know about these people, I learned from stereotypes and I'm sure it's the same for most of us. That's why I don't like to talk about things I don't know.
If u don't agree with something u can criticise using evidences and mentionning what message are replying too.
Now I'm going to give challenge, tel us in what message u've seen that people want to practice islam i morocco and fight with america,etc..
just do a copy and paste of the message.
If I don't agree with any message, I just have to give my point of view, but do not offend people.
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4:44 pm    October 8, 2003
Moha
89
Attention all ikhwaniyin (taliban boys)
I have a proposal for you, you want to practice chari3a law fil maghrib,ok no problem.Here's the deal you can have chari3 in your ghettos (aka bidonvilles,karyanes,barariks and environs). Just stay stay aways from ccentre ville et les environs.We don't want you to scare the tourists away because we need them.If you really have to go dowtown you have to get a passe,and make sure you get back home before 8pm.If you get caught after the curfew you'll be whipped a hundred lashes according to chari3a law.So if you want to please Allah you have to aways from the kaffir corrupted environnment namely centres villes and ma jawarahouma.
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4:33 pm    October 8, 2003
Casaoui
88
87
(suite)
The real power Moha is when u're strong and desired by everybody, because all what u bring to people is social justice, education, truth. And this is what Islam did when we were strong. rich families from Europe use to send there kids to study in Muslim countries (Baghdad, andalus, etc..) Islam was the example all the planet use to follow. Why Islam was that strong, because of hard work, struggle and strong faith in God.
for those who keep saying why the western world (spain, america, etc..) are stronger than us even they're not following the right path. As I said these countries are not strong but the problem is because we are tooooooooooooo weak and toooooooooo behind so that they appear to us strong. So there is two theories follow there completly materialistic way by doubling our efforts and get to there level. Or follow what god ordered us to do and be much stronger, and again god is not only ordering us to pray, fast, haj, etc it's as I said spirituality, hard work and strong faith.
some people have posted some messages like muslims want us to go 12 centries back. It is our duty as muslims to be strong in technology, science and so on, u can be a good muslim and have the best car a nice house (I don't understand why u're mixing up things)
But we also take valuable things from our history even if it's 14 centries ago such us the way our profet and his compaignions use to treat people, how our profet was kind to people how our profet use worship god, etc.
We take also valuable things from the present even from none muslims as long as theses things are not forbiden in our religion such the education system, technology, science, and so on.

peace

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4:33 pm    October 8, 2003
Casaoui
87
66
"Casawi,you're right america will not be a superpower foverever,maybe china will be next in power,but not muslim country. Come on guys,let's be realistic,empires don't fall overnight. It'll be a long time before u see america out of the picture,and then it'll be replaced by a Godless china or Hindou India,which one u prefere? reply"
Moha u're right if America colapse, then probably China will take over. Because china has the prerequisites for it.
But it seems to me that when we talk about power, we 're talking about two different things.
Power is not only money or military equipment. Power is much more beyond that. America has money and military power but it is the most hatred state in the world. We all know the american society and the problems it suffers from. I lived in America during clinton administartion, which was the best period America have gone through, and still most of americans was not happy.
I not saying that the muslims are happy theses days, but what's the answer for that.
Islam have know ups and downs. And every time we've gone through a difficult period is because we turn our back from our religions, if the othmanit empire falled down is because of the mistakes they and we as muslims believe is a punishment from god, same thing for andalus, and so on.
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4:04 pm    October 8, 2003
Moha
86
Malcom X,what's the problem man you can't handle the truth?Yes chari3a is unfair to women and to human being . And who are you to tell pple to shut up?You sure have big mouth going around calling pple traitors ,you need to wash your dirty mouth before u talk to pple u don't know etc.You have no authority to speak in the name name of Islam.You can only speak for yourself. Ok go ahead a call me kafir ,taitor and etc. You think I care, your opinion simply dosen't count. I don't have nothing to prouve to you.

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2:50 pm    October 8, 2003
Casawi79
85
84
that's what i see here, in many accessions i've witnessed some individuals putting words in other ppl's mouth and use it against them.
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2:15 pm    October 8, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
84
79
No akhouya my head is working just fine, thanks for your concern,
but can you tell me where did yo see that chari3a(don`t say it`s mine cause it`s God`s) violates basic human rights?

where did you see me saying that i want to fight the jews and the christians? or to fight any body who is insane ??? a malek asa7bi wach ca va la tete ???i never said that double check a weldi....

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1:13 pm    October 8, 2003
X
83
81
I don't think you deserve respect, cos you are not up to it. Don't you know that you say nothing and your ideas say nothing, just BS. so Plz shut up!!!!
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1:10 pm    October 8, 2003
X
82
Now, I can understand why we - muslims - reached that downfall, Cos we have traitors among us like Adnane, mb and Moha. You guys think that you are more pragmatic and wise thinking. Believe me you are full of it. You guys reached the level of pagans, how dare you mb, to say that the shari3a doesn't treat women with equality to man. hamdoullilah, Islam is stronger than me and you, and we don't need pple like you to show us what is right and what is wrong. Allah is great, and We will win sooner or later.
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1:07 pm    October 8, 2003
mb
81
78
x,
pas d insultes s il te plait ...okay !!! restons poli....d ailleurs rentrer ds des discussions pareils n est pas trop mon genre....je ne suis pas la pour prouver mon intelligence ...ni ma stupidite...je suis la ...j ai dis ce ke je pensais si tu pense que c est debile certe..c est ton droit..mais dis le avec plus de diplomatie....et je te prie de bien vouloir changer de tps kand tu me parles....on ne se connait pas donc j exige du respet, le respect pour ma personne et ma libertee de pensee.
merci...sans rancune.
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12:54 pm    October 8, 2003
Moha
80
I mean if you have a brain you would be dangerous.
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12:52 pm    October 8, 2003
Moha
79
Negociator, it's seem like you the one who dosen't know what you talking about.Are you Ok in your head,ca va la tete? Your chari3a is not practical in the 21st century simply because it violate basic human rights.The international community won't accept it. As a matter of fact, most muslims don't want to live under chari3a law.Let's have a referendum.End of the story.
As with regard to your jihad doctrine, you want first fight jews then christians,and then who's next ? You simply want to declare a war on all the whole world.Wow the "Oumma" should be proud of you.I can understand fighting the zionists in Palestine or the americans in Iraq, but to fight anybody who is not muslim is totally insane. Oh man you're dangerous !!
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12:52 pm    October 8, 2003
X
78
mb, Can You Please Shut up!!! You are so stupid and you don't make any sense. Plz, Keep your own ideas to yourself.
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12:26 pm    October 8, 2003
Casawi79
77
NEGO SAID
so how do you define what america is doing now, Either you are with us or against us
i'm gonna rephrase this:
if u are a powerless country u are with us or against us, if u are a powerful country if u are not with us will send one of our dogs to talk you in LOL
who would ever thought Iraq will go thru what they are going thru now 15 or 20 years ago and with who the US their first weapon supplier.
many ppl here talk about the Islam as if they are not Muslims , i'm hearing what the media say about the Islam, u guys should know better than that but again i'm not here to judge anyone.
i wonder if Morocco will be in the same shoes as the Iraq 15 or 20 years from now!!!
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12:11 pm    October 8, 2003
mb
76
74
yep...je connais pas la shariaa pour en parler ...mais tt ce ke je sais c est que kand une femmes veut etre temoin ...il en faut 2 alors k il suffit d un homme pour ca ....que l homme peut divorcer la femme kand bon lui chante...la femme doit faire une demande et bla bla bla... en heritage le fils a droit au double de la fille....etc...en tant que fille ( au fait c est pas khouya) sous cette loi islamique je me sens un peu opprimee...je sens comme si mes droits sont bafoues....c est le sentiment ke j ai now...si mon pere ne veut pas ke j ai un passeport ( meme apres la majorite ) ben je l aurais pas ...c est le male...il decide pour moi car je suis une fille....des fois je me demande ...est ce un crime d etre une fille???? voila ce ke j ai voulu dire par injuste....y a plein d exemple a ce sujet la liste est longue ...rak 3aref li kayen pas besoin d en dire plus ....et navree si le fait de dire ke la loi islamike est injuste....mais je serais ravi d entendre ce ke l islam donne aux femmes a ce sujet....tu pourrais peut etre me faire changer d avis ki sait....
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12:07 pm    October 8, 2003
Moha
75
Dracula of course you can practice chari3a in ur house,just make sure u keep it quiet and don't wake up your neighbors when you do your salat alfajr.Yes Bush is a christian fanatic,but the american constitution won't allow him to mix religion in politics.Also they have a congress acting as watchdog over the president.That's called check and balance. Does your chari3a law allow ordinary citicizens to criticise Mullah Omar or Imam Khoumaini??Is that what u call Islamic justice by stoning to death a poor woman in Nigeria? Oh man you'are doing more dammage to Islam than the Kouffars, Allah ye7fidh aljami3 minkoum ya bani bin ladens.
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11:56 am    October 8, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
74
70
kayna ..., and taht is what we need to do khassna n3arfou 9darna wnessta9mou.

MB, khouya i don`t think you know chari3a to say what you said.....,
(c une loi injuste) double check your onfos, and see what Islam gives women instead of looking at examples that means nothing,

Please tell us why do you think that this law is injust !!!
what`s in the chari3a that needs to be changed, etc, etc,

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11:54 am    October 8, 2003
mb
73
71
X,
je te retourne le compliment:)))) koike je pense k on a tous quelquechose a dire il suffit de bien ecouter ( ou lire )
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11:48 am    October 8, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
72
Yea h probably what`s going on in the midlle east has nothing to do with the crusades as mr Bush said but hey I wouldn`t believe him, he lies a lot , so why would i believe him, as God said ma3amerrhoum radi yerddaw 3la lmsselmine,
so how do you define what america is doing now, Either you are with us or against us, means you have to adopt democracy, no space for islamists ..., tehy are fighting every thing who is islamic..., they don`t show it but it doesn`t mean it is not there.....,

So i`d rather be careful than to regret.... at the end...

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11:47 am    October 8, 2003
X
71
mb
Tu te rends compte que tu n'as absolument rien a dire.
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11:44 am    October 8, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
70
For every 5 loaves of bread consumed in Egypt, 3 are food aid grants from the US/Israel, 1 is borrowed, and 1 is made locally. You can take that picture and paint it throughout the Arab/muslim world. Do you think these people are in any position but to take a booty-smacking and be quiet?

Doesn't the prophet (PBUH) say: "Rahima Llahou 3abdan 3arifa qadrahu fastaqaam" !

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11:43 am    October 8, 2003
mb
69
65
for me bush is as bad as benladen....koula oul 7amak ta3ou...but for the religion and politics i think it is about time to separate both.....it doesn t work anymore....legally it can not work especially as the world is changing and we have to deal with other countries economically speaking....ama...f la vie de tt les jour....oh my god...hell yes we have to separate those two....the woman has no rights ( almost) if we follow sgari3a comme tu dis....can get kicked out of her house whenever the man feels like it....if her father or husband dies she gets almost nothink she has to live nafa9a 3la his family ( and times changed no one cares anymore.....) je sais ke c est ds le coran ...et ne m accuse pas d etre athee pour ce ke je vais dire ....mais franchement ...c est une loi injuste.....cause we have to see things within our times not al 9arn 2 hijriya.....it is sad to say and to see but time change...and we have to go with our times....not for everything of course...but we gotta change some of the stuff.....it is just not working out anymore....
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11:30 am    October 8, 2003
mb
68
64
nego....
pour une fois j ai pas envie de te foutre une baffe:))) t as bien parle sauf kand t as dis ke les chretiens et les juifs vont tjs etre en guerre contre l islam .....car encore une fois je vais dire que ce ki se passe au moyen orient n a rien a voir avec une croisade ( comme l a si bien dit george) ce n est pas une guerre de religion.....ils emploient la religion comme outils c est tt ....c est un endroit strategike ....donc ca arrange l oncle sam et d autre nations d avoir des troubles ds la region ....israel seme la peur ds la region ...l insecurite chez ses voisins musulmans ....n oublions pas que ces voisins la ont des richesse ki interesse l economie americaine....donc ca arrange tt le monde ( sauf les plaintifs bien sur ). les arabes de la regions auront tjs recours aux states pour les sois disons "proteger" conte l enemi donc protection contre des services et le petrole....et ca ne va pas s arrette jusk a ce k il y ai une democratie ds la region et pour k il y ai une democratie ds la region ben il faut des lustres avant de voir ca .....
et puis pour ceux ki approuve al qaeda....je pense que c est desolant ....car au lieu d injecter de l argent ds les armes les camp de training pour kamikaze...ben ils feraient mieux d injecter de l argent ds autre chose ..par exemple aider financierement des partis politike ki en valent la peine pour renverser certain regime dictateurs...etc.....
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11:28 am    October 8, 2003
X
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Moha, you can't play le fou et le sage. you are either or.
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11:26 am    October 8, 2003
Moha
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Casawi,you're right america will not be a superpower foverever,maybe china will be next in power,but not muslim country. Come on guys,let's be realistic,empires don't fall overnight. It'll be a long time before u see america out of the picture,and then it'll be replaced by a Godless china or Hindou India,which one u prefere?
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11:26 am    October 8, 2003
dracula
65
I never supported taliban in my notes. I only said that in their own way of understanding Islam, they were very sincere and straightforward in practice ,while talking about the level of taqwa. If my comments have caused any damage, I apologize.
Islam came as a Sharia so as a muslim, there is no way I can dissociate religion from politics. By the way why, what is Bush doing? the president or the priest? why don't address that?
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10:41 am    October 8, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
64
Exactly a ssi Casawi79, it is the truth the jews and the christians will always fight the muslims, and again it is in the Quran ( walan tardda 3anka alyahoudou wala annassara 7atta tattabi3a millatahoum) so if you follow them that`s when they will accept you if not your are their ennemy....,sorry i only have Quran to back my statments...

I don`t think Alqaeda and Taliban are Good examples to follow, because they both made big mistakes using islam as their excuse, Islam never told us to keep women inside their homes and don`t allow them not go out to study or work..., like the taliban were doing, Islam never said if you don`t grow a beard you will be punished..., Islam never told us to blow up planes in buildings with innocent people inside them!!!!
so don`t blame islam for what alqaeda or taliban did, just like you don`t blame a CAR for an accident, we blame who was driving it, same for them you blame the people who didn`t know how to apply islam.

we don`t have to go back to the 12th century`s islam, Islam is the same and it is not changeable by time ( sali7 likoulli zaman wa makan) as we were thought in tarbiya islamia no ? there is no such thing as change islam so it will go with today`s life. we can live as moderns but still be good muslims, you can wear the best clothes ride the best car, live in the best house, and be a good muslim, (allah you7ibb ana yara ni3matahou 3ala 3abdih) we don`t have to live in caves to be good muslims....,

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10:01 am    October 8, 2003
mb
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thank you thank you soooooo much Dracula.....before reading what you said i was in the Dalal atam....:) now thanks to you am gonna follow Qaida thoughts and vote for the PJD....thanks to u i ll go to al jana...because only u know how we get there.....am blessed!!!!
a sa7bi ....wake up....who are you fooling here...??? chouf pour the kid...i really don t care what he does with his ass....i only care about how his politic is going...ama l baki it is his personal life...don t call ppl munafikin or ignorant u have no right to say that....alqaeda ppl are criminals....u remember the nazis...it is just another version of them... and don tmix religion with politics it is a bad mix believe me
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9:49 am    October 8, 2003
Casawi79
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what i'm getting from Nego is the fight with Muslims and Jews will not 'til the judgement day
also, thru out the human history how many power came along do they still exist HELL NO just as the jews and the american have power today it might end tomorrow.
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9:30 am    October 8, 2003
Moha
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Dracula the taliban-boy,first rule of a debate is no personal attacks:don't call pple u don't know "feeble minds".You're not qualified to judge our level of intelligence.You said the only way for muslims to gain strength is by going back to 12th century Islam.Ok but you can't prouve it.The "dogma" is to ask pple to believe in something without suppling proof.Don't ask questions,just follow.A typical "integriste" mentality,no wonder the "PJD" is very popular among un-educated illeterate masses.Hey, but why Allah didn't help the taliban,they were good muslims,right? shhhh you can't ask that question !!!
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9:12 am    October 8, 2003
dracula
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let me tell you. That kid is so impure anf filthy that I have to redo my wudu (ablution) anytime I happen to see his picture.
Only few ignorants or munafiqqin may deny the shame that the royal family has intentially seeded in Morocco. In fact, Morocco is the land of shame. Kids prostitution, clubs where poor adolescents are forced to striptease, injustice, poverty and slavery are only few examples of that. What do you call this? Honor? All this happens while your kid idol practises jetski and get his ass tanned before offering it to another luti. Are you honored or ashamed to be the subject of a someone whose ass gets ripped every night.
Do I really have to explain this to a Moroccan?
You defend him and other non muslims like him. Remember toub'atouna maa man tuhibbouna. I sincerely wish you become aware of the mistakes you are making and make tawab. I want you to be with ahl aljanna. Don't be a false witness. You'll be accountable for what you say and do. Your hand and mouths wil witness against you. Walatahsabanna Allaha Ghafilun ani addalimin. I'm inviting you to reconsider the sarcastic way you address issues of Alaqeda. It is a serious matter and again my purpose is to really tell you that the right path exists and you only find it within Islamic guidlines. Again, I want you to be min ahl Aljanna InshaAllah.
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8:19 am    October 8, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
59
Hana alalla,
hahoua alhadith :
Go here :
http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Doc=5&ID=70669&SearchText=??????&SearchType=root&Scope=all&Offset=60&SearchLevel=QBE
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8:14 am    October 8, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
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MB, i`am really careful on what i say,
ok in every prayer we recite alfatiha at least twice, in it we ask God ( ihdina assira6a almussta9im, sira6a alladina an3amtta 3alayhim, ghayrri almaghdoubi 3alayhim walla addaleen)
in the tafssir, alladina an3amtta 3alayhim = assa7aba,and the other mu2mineen.
almaghdoubi 3alayhim = alyahoud(jews) who did not submit to god, who killed the prophets, and don`t believe in Mohammed.
addaleen = christians , because they lost the right path.

I`m not saying that the muslims nowaday are going on the right path but Islam is the right Path and who ever follows it the way it should be is in the right Path.

God is not descriminating, tehy are the one who desriminited them selves by calling them sleves other names ( jews) (christians) , we all know that God said that ( wa makan ibrahim yahoudian wala nassraniyan , walakine 7anifan musslimaa) .

It is true that the jews WERE god`s chosen people before they incurred his Rath, and it is true that the Muslims are the best nation on Earth FOR THE PEOPLE,( kountoum khayrra oummatin oukhrijat linnass, ta2mourouna bilma3roufi watanhawna 3ani almounkari) ONLY yla kan2emrou bilma3rouf , w kanhaw 3an almounkar, we become teh best nation,( nowadays we are not).

Goid said ( waman ittakhada ghayra alislami dinan falan you9bala minh) that means who is yahoudi or christian will not be accepted by god.....

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7:42 am    October 8, 2003
mb
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pureeeeee!!!!!! ce ke tu viens de dire nego est grave.....tu essaye de dire que dieu n aime pas les juifs et les chretiens?????!!!!! est ce ke j ai bien compris...en tt cas c est ce ke je comprends.....pfffff et on dit ke les juifs ce croient le peuple elu...les musulmans font la meme chose ...la preuve ...ce ke tu viens de dire ....dieu prefere les musulmans....eh ben a sidi...je vais t annoncer un scoop.....dieu ne serait pas dieu s il avait une quelkonke haine pour kikecesoit.....si dieu etait comme tu le dis (discriminate) ben y auarais aucune raison k on prie dieu..car au fond tu le reduis a notre egal et je ne 3bed pas mes egaux......mais bon heureusement he s above all that...carefull with what u say a zine ...
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7:36 am    October 8, 2003
mb
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out of the path???? what path do u know it...are u better than others? more muslim than others? sorry a sa7bi your comment was silly...we will win if we become good muslims....taliban are good muslims?!!! right...well why didn t they win?????......hey by the way taliban treated ppl like animals ...that s what u call islam????
rah l7amak hada.....u still talk about religion when the problem in this story is not islam or judaism....have a look at the real problem ...
for the "kid"....i feel like whenever u ppl don t have anything to say you start attackinh him.....what shame are you talking about??? u know who is bringing shame in my opinion to the muslim world...taliban are....they gave a very bad image of islam.
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7:31 am    October 8, 2003
moulzarri3a
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Adnane, i really feel sorry for you because not only you have a defeatist mentality but you also lost your pride of who you are along the way but maybe this quote by Cicero will inspire you to come back to your senses and at least have some kind of pride:

The name of peace is sweet, and the thing itself is beneficial, but there is a great difference between peace and servitude. Peace is freedom in tranquillity, servitude is the worst of all evils, to be resisted not only by war, but even by death.
Cicero (106 BC - 43 BC)

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7:27 am    October 8, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
54
To the person who said do we think we can beat Israel and America by praying 5 times a day, well if you look at one of my previous messages you can see clearly that I said Israel by it`s self can destroy all the muslim nations in 4 days..., i don`t think we can defeat israel like we are now, we are very weak spiritually and phisically.., BUT we shouldn`t give up we have to keep praying and trying to be good muslims for our sleves , for our last day when every body will be judged for what he has done,
And who ever said Islam means Peace , he is wrong Islam means Submission, peace is salam,
I do agree with dracula, it is because the muslims left their religion ,that they are like this now,

jew is a jew doesn`t say that wherever you find a jew you should kill him, of course not , but be careful don`t expect him to change , he can be your buddy, your best friend , you should treat him as Allah told you to,( la yanhakoumou allahou 3ani alladina la you9atiloukoum fi dinoukoum an tabbarrou bihim..) if he is not fighting us we should be good to them, plus God used a word that is ONLY used for parents ( albbirr) birrou alwalidayn, to see that it is your duty to treat them well.

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7:26 am    October 8, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
53
Adnane, I said things about you that are not true and you did the same, and hey it is a discussion and such thing will happen...,don`t take it personnaly ,
But you keep trying to proov your points by criticising mine, can you explain your self a little bit more? please, what and why don`t you like what i said?
why i keep repeating a jew is a jew , because you keep asking and trying to convince me to take it back wich will not happen unless you give good reasons..,
In order to back my statments I bring Quran, Ahadiths..., what`s wrong with that ??? shoudl i bring poetry like you did so you can agree with me ??? come on buddy, that`s what i believe in, if you don`t like it don`t swear it...,
If God loves all of us muslims jews and christians, he wouldn`t say about jews that they incurred his rath and he wouldn`t say that the christians went astray..., this is what the quran says, i would go with the Quran or scinece to proov things, other than that i don`t see any thing else!!!!
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7:16 am    October 8, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
52
Dracula,
Nice comments. Please clarify for my simple mind: if the moores were kicked out because they strayed from the path, then the spanish must have won because they were on the path. Otherwise why would victory be granted to those who were away from the path. And let's face it, there haven't been many victories since that time. In fact, there were none except for some small ottoman skirmishes here and there. It makes one wonder what the path really is.
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5:13 am    October 8, 2003
dracula
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Moha and co
Remember that the moors were kicked out of Al Andalus because they betrayed Islam, they lost taqwa. remember muluk attawaif when they spent nights in romance,listening to Zyriab and poems.
Whether you like or not, the key to victory is the return to Allah SWT. Wamatachauna illa An Yashaa Allah. Your American and Israeli friends and idols know better that truth. They know that as long as muslims are away from Allah, they can rule. They worked on strategies and so far they only succeeded in creating(converting I should say) some feeble minded individuals like Moha, Adnane, Souhaima.....
Allah is the sustainer of the universe. Allah is the key to victory.
As to Taliban, I must agree with previous postings saying that whether we agree with them or not, they practice Islam the way they understood it with so much passion and Taqwa, and Allah will reward them for that Because Al aamal binniyate and their niya(intentions) were sincere.
Talking about Taliban. I think that they are cleaner in body and spirit than the kid in the picture on the left side of this screen, who brought addul(shame) on our poor country.

May Allah guide us to the right path.

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9:25 pm    October 7, 2003
Moha
50
Yes america and isreal are unknowingly procticing true Islam,that's why the're strong and powerful,logical isn't it?
Yes but arab and muslims don't want to hear facts that contradict their belief.Problem is, our so-called educated people have a faulty education, our schools don't teach critical thinking.This dogmatic way of thinking prevent them from seeing the light.It's amazing even in this internet age the majority of us still have the 12 century mentality.I'm not talking about people who can't read and write.I'm talking our itterate college graduate.
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8:22 pm    October 7, 2003
Souhaima
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What I think moha meant to say is "Don't sit back and wait for a miracle to happen"
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8:21 pm    October 7, 2003
Souhaima
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Following your logic "everybody who is not following islam must be weak" right? Like US, Israel....etc.?
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8:14 pm    October 7, 2003
Casaoui
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"By your logic muslims are weak simply because they don't follow Islam". Noha if I'm not mistaking, u don't believe in the fact that muslims are weak because they left their religion.
I'm not trying to judge ur knowledge or to criticise ur statments, but I'm seing some contradictions in ur message on one side u talk about the material power and on the other side u talk about the spiritual power (our relation as humain being to God) U seem that u believe in hard work and material power rather that our relation to God.
Noha, let me tel that Islam is about spirituality and hard work. This is why I thing u're wrong when u criticise this statment : "By your logic muslims are weak simply because they don't follow Islam" it seems to me that u're ignoring what following islam means. Following Islam is not only about prayers. Following Islam not only about our relation to people.
Following Islam is about our relation to God (prayers, fasting ramadan, Zakat, etc) our relation to people and hard work. So, as muslim we should have the material power that u're talking about u should have hard work, etc..
The question is : nowdays are muslim following the right path. I would say no, even with what is called now assahwa al islamia we are still way too far.
If u look at the muslim world, u'll realise that we are devided in terms of our believe. In general part of muslims believe only in hard work and material things and the other part believe in spritality only. Islam is requiering both hard work and seeking help from God.
So when following Islam means both hard work spirituality, then I come to the conclusion that we are weak because simply we are not following Islam.

peace.

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8:07 pm    October 7, 2003
Souhaima
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45
I didn't get a chance to read all the posts, but I'm glad to see some individuals sticking to what they think is right in the midst of the huge opposition of others who just embrace old stupidities without even questionning them.
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8:01 pm    October 7, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
45
44
2 thumbs up to you and Moha. Souhaima by the way Antr made an almost similar point as yours, in one of his recent posts.
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7:49 pm    October 7, 2003
Souhaima
44
We all got used to that ?OOPS we were just trying our fireworks?Sorry for the 1000 killed, 2000 injured, and 1000000000 pissed?.
You have to be an idiot to not realize that this is an Agenda. And all what we do is sit quietly and ask ourselves who?s next. You know what the problem is in the arab world? Rich and powerful people are stupid and smart people can?t help it. It disturbs me just to think how messed up it is. And you know what makes it worse? It?s thinking ?Oh Jews hate us?. This is not about religion. It?s about political and economic power. Religion just got in the way and became like a catalyst if you will. Just like racism is about social stratification that was constructed on the color differences coinciding with other economic factors.
My point is, as long as this is thought of as a ?Holy War?, the problem will worsen.
Arabs are blaming their misery on the ?evil jews? and waiting for a miracle to happen while Israel finds more excuses to attack muslim countries because they ?hate jews?.
I hope no one misinterprets my statement.
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7:38 pm    October 7, 2003
Moha
43
You guys are unbelievable,wow you think you can defeat america and israel just by praying 5 times a day.It's amazing how everybody became an expert on religion these days.This non-sense got to stop ,most muslims believe that Islam mean peace,but Ousama and co don't think so.It's seem like anybody can issue a fatwa in order to serve his purpose.By your logic muslims are weak simply because they don't follow Islam. Just for your information,the islamic decline started started 500 years ago when the christians kicked the moors out of spain.But this dosen't mean the west got strong because they followed their religion (namely christianity),quite the controrary . It was the industrial revoulution that did it.Faith in God or Allah ,or the Budha has nothing to do with it. Another exemple,the Soviet Union was a superpower without God's help.Religion has nothing to do with it.Advanced nation believe in hard work not some invisible God or Allah.
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7:38 pm    October 7, 2003
Moha
42
You guys are unbelievable,wow you think you can defeat america and israel just by praying 5 times a day.It's amazing how everybody became an expert on religion these days.This non-sense got to stop ,most muslims believe that Islam mean peace,but Ousama and co don't think so.It's seem like anybody can issue a fatwa in order to serve his purpose.By your logic muslims are weak simply because they don't follow Islam. Just for your information,the islamic decline started started 500 years ago when the christians kicked the moors out of spain.But this dosen't mean the west got strong because they followed their religion (namely christianity),quite the controrary . It was the industrial revoulution that did it.Faith in God or Allah ,or the Budha has nothing to do with it. Another exemple,the Soviet Union was a superpower without God's help.Religion has nothing to do with it.Advanced nation believe in hard work not some invisible God or Allah.
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7:33 pm    October 7, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
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40
Negotiator, you said things about me in your recent 2 messages that are not true. I don;t want to go into them and get bogged down into a different discussion. Maybe one day I'm sure we'll discuss spirituality again.

But bottom line is you keep repeating your statement jew is jew. Of course you mean something else such as, if I may help you express yourself clearer, "jew is bad news". The thing is, in order to back up your statement, you bring up religion, God, Quran, Ahadiths, and God said jew is bad, God said this and that. Man, you got be careful as you brainwash yourself by yourself. God maybe innocent from what you're saying he's telling you. God loves all of us, Muslims, Jews Christians or X. You cannot put all jews in one basket and throw that basket in fire.

I just wish you can be consistent. Because I can almost sense your response will be: "...of course there are good jews also... BUt... a jew is a jew... and the tree will speak.." and by the way, I never said that "trees will speak.." is a khoza3bilat, you invented words I never said.

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7:14 pm    October 7, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
40
Suite :
If you didn`t understand why i related the jews hiding behind trees , you should ask instead of making fun of it,( according to my school of thought they are waiting for trees to talk to them)
but any ways i`ll explain why i gave that example, it is to show you
that they will never change, God told us to be careful dealing with them and that they don`t keep their promises, they killed prophets, they did a lor of stuff until they Incurred God`s rath so he punished them by leaving them without land, i
hope you understand why i say a jew is a jew.., they will never accept us, because they think they are God`s favourite people( cha3b allah almoukhtar). and nothing wil change that idea.

You can express your criticism at my interpretations as much as you want But don`t make fun of things before knowing what they are....

I`am not defending my self as you said i`m explaining my point of views , and would like to see your point of view as well, and not only your critics about mine.
Peace,

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7:06 pm    October 7, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
39
37
I didn`t ask about your level of Imane !!!!?????
And as you said it is between
you and your creator, And he is the One who will ask you why did you have to process informations while you are not qualified ? if stuffing ahadiths in your head is a childhood stage , well for me no it is not because i`m not qualified to process the given ahadiths in my head , i listen to the scholars and how they explain them, cause God told us ( wass3alou ahla addikri in kountoum la ta3lamoun) .

I don`t think you meant to disprespect God or his Messenger, but your comments DID, because you thought it was just kind of khuza3bilat OR MY SCHOOL THOUGHTS !!!!!!
The Quran is not a complex message or else no one would have understood it , BUT there are some ayates that are complex and that is why we have the ahadiths to explain them and that is why we should ask the scholars about those ayate that we don`t understand, But to say the Quran is a complex message is a bit harch in my opinion. ( 9oul houa allahou a7ad allahou assamad ...) easy every body can understand it !!!!

But if you think it is a complex message, Fine , But why would you try to process the message in your head while you are not qualified for that ??

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5:36 pm    October 7, 2003
BabyBlueEyes
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Plz post this aya or hadith...thanks....
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2:51 pm    October 7, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
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34
Hey hey slow down Nego. I do not have to tell you what my level of imane (faith) is, or what it should be. That is between me and God, he knows me well, I am always intrigued by him and as a result I tend to want to know him, and absorb his wisdom more and more everyday. I am not surprised you always find my statements unparallel to yours. I like to process information in my head, instead of just stuffing it in. I passed that phase of stuffing information in, religious be it or else. That stage was childhood for me. Now, I process things. Nonetheless, this does not mean I disrespect God or deny his predictions or direction of life, as he states in the Quran or through his messengers. But, and this is the difference between me and you, I am careful with the Quran. The Quran is a highly concise and complex message, it is not easy to comprehend fully. Some things in the Quran may sound so simple to some, but are worthy of nights, days and years of thought process by others because these people believe there is a deeper message behind it.

Going back to your mention of jews hiding behind trees, I just do not understand how you are relating this divine prediction to current events. The way you understand it seems very weak and shallow to me. If I have arrived at an interpretation that I deem stronger than yours I would present it to you. Helas, now all I can do is express my criticism to your interpretation. You seem to be defending yourself, I do not blame you.

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2:33 pm    October 7, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
36
Of course, no body in the middle east or any muslim country can stand to israel ,even if all the muslim countries in the world get together to defeat israel they will not be successful JUST beacause we don`t have the imane, If Israel defeated the arabs in 1967 in 6 days Now they can destroy us in 4 days.
what can we do ?? first we should change our selves, (la youghayyerra allahou mabi9awmin 7atta youghayyirou ma bi2anfoussihim)
in ghazwat badr the kuffar were 3 times the number of the muslims, and their arms were much more than those of the muslims, but still cause they were true muslims Allah gave them annassr.

Those missiles and such won`t exist any more in the LAST DAYS as i mentioned before i wasn`t talking about nowadays....

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2:18 pm    October 7, 2003
Bahja
35
Both Adnane and Negotiator are rights. Muslims that Allah talked about them (the Tree and Rock) are not the one we are experienecing seeing now. And yes Israel is a powerfull country right now that no muslim country will be able to defeat it, and God will not help muslims right now cuz simply they are not practicing Islam. We are muslims simply because our parents are. That's not real Islam.
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12:18 pm    October 7, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
34
31
This is really shoking to me......
I didn`t know that you don`t believe in teh ahadiths and The Quran.., I hope that you just don`t know about that , and not denying it......,
the war between the Muslims and the Jews in the last days, is mentioned by our Beloved Prophet(PBUH) and the trees and rocks that will talk to the muslims and tell them to kill the jew who`s hiding behind them...,

before starting your sarcastic comments ( star wars & your school of thought ....) you should double check on your knowledge of your religion, cause these are not my thoughts these are FACTS that were told to us by our Prophet(PBUH)...
If God can bring alive the dead , you think he can`t make a tree or a rock talk ?? how about when our hands and legs and all our organs will talk in front of us to tell god what we were doing ?

daba it`s my turn to say aweddi...

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12:06 pm    October 7, 2003
dracula
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31
Slow down Adnane and don't underestimate Allah's strenght. If you want to be funny, then pick another topic. Any scholar will be able to tell you about jews hiding behind rocks and trees. I guess you are lacking faith in allah and you should make tawab. Who had created those who have created missiles?
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10:38 am    October 7, 2003
Casawi79
32
why do u even allow your brain to think that jews has ever or will ever be friends of muslims, have peace with or even have mercy on them. who elected sharon twice, was it you and i of course not it was the Israelis so this should remind you that they are happy with what sharon is doing to arabs/muslims world.
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10:27 am    October 7, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
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30

:) when the Muslims fight the jews.. wow man, what is this? star wars? anyways, that mention of the jew hiding behind a tree and so on, where did you leave missiles and such.. Israelis are able to kill their enemies with a click of a button, sending a guided missile to search for the enemy hiding behind a tree, in a car, in a building, etc. The Muslims are the among those who do not have this technology yet,

According to your school of thoght, they apparently are waiting for trees to speak to them :) aweddi...

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9:50 am    October 7, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
30
La suite :
Regarding a jew is a jew, i wouldn`t change it because God didn`t change it, a jew is a jew , let me explain to you what i mean by that, a jew will never do any thing against his (israel) even if it is the right thing to do,
They believe in things that we don`t, so they will never change, and still We the arabs are trying to have peace with them and expect them to change even though we haven`t seen any good thing from them since 48..., and they will not change , that`s why a jew is a jew, he will never change (god`s will) Just like muslims, a muslim is a muslim and he will not change, who is right and who is worng, according to the Quran the muslims are, and The Jews are maghdoubi 3alayhim, and in the last days, when the muslims will fight the jews, the jew will hide behind a TREE and the TREE will call the Muslim and tell him a jew is behind me come and kill him...,
Peace wella democracy or the other western words, i don`t believe in them, how would i trust somebody who stubed me on the back not once not twice....,
I feel very sad when i hear the syrians say ( radi neltazmou bddab6 annafss) and Busch says that israel should feel that it can do any thing to defend it`s territories....,
It is becoming just like after 9/11 when america allowed it`s self to do any thing to defeat terrorism, same here with israel, they started with syria and god knows who else is in the plan, and their excuse of course is terrorism.....
allah yjib lli yefhaman wmaye36ina walou
·

9:50 am    October 7, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
29
Adnane,
Last year The islamists darou idrab to stop showing that film that azoulay brought to essaouira, because it was ZIONIST, so it is not independent, and he will always try to bring some films that will try to bring a good image about jews in palestine, what`s good about it ??? morocco and the rest of the arabs are supposed not to have any relations with Israel, the movie you saw might eb well produeced and, and but did you get the message?? the mossad stops the israelis from harming the palestinians, is that true ?? why don`t they stop settlers when they are firing at palestinian farmers? ,so art wella sports or whatever we shouldn`t have any contact with them, Just like what Alami said once when he was gonna face an Israeli if he wins, he said he will not play against him if he wins, Allah darhalou meziana wdak l israeli mat2ahalch, so he didn`t pay the fine.

A suivre

·

8:48 am    October 7, 2003
the fool
28
22
Antar,
I agree with most of what you say except when you called the Arab leaders puppets. The right word should be QWAWEED.
H2 used to offer virgins to his guests. M6 exhibits his wife and sisters to any sonofabitch and allows orgies in his palaces, any American soldier dares screwing muslimas in the land of Islam. Remember the GI who kidnapped the daughter(so called princess) of the Emirate Sheikh.
As to MAHA msg 23, Allah says that Being Muslim is not facing Al maghrib or Al mashriq IT IS worshiping Allah the right way. Saudi Arabia is not practising Islam with taqwa. Most of what happens there is for show. They are not advanced because of Nifaq. Hami Al Haramain spends his vacation wearing shorts in his yaught in Marbella, Spain. He is 85 years old.
America is practising true Islam? Bullshit. Don't be fooled!
As toTaliban, regardless if we agree with them or not, they practice Islam the way they understood it and with so much passion and taqwa.
·

8:38 am    October 7, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
27
26
You're mixing up things big time, but llah ghaleb it's your lenses and you're proud of your lenses. Good luck in your journey full of DREAMS. The poet said:

Layssa Almouna Bittamanni -- Walakin Toukhadou Dounia Ghilaba.

You choose pride as your inspiration and your motivation; well unless it's coupled with concrete credible strength it's a blank check.

The poet said in Gharnati music:

7azzamtt ba7zam r'hish --- outqatta3 biya

·

8:05 am    October 7, 2003
moulzarri3a
26
4
Adnane wrote: "Maybe one shouldn't be proud in the first place, if you don't have anything to be proud of."

Well Mr. Adnane i can't say that i was shocked reading your comment because i simply expect anything from a person who is Pro-Polisario and consider martyrdom operations as terrorism acts.
We don't have anything to be proud of? Maybe you don't but i'm sure that millions of Arabs and Billions of Muslims have. And what i life you have if you are not proud of what you are.
Later...

·

6:45 am    October 7, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
25
24
:) Antr, so what's the resolution?

btw, yesterday I saw a headline on the left hand-side of raioo (Instant News Headlines) that read something funny like: Kaddaffi divorces from Arabs hehehehehe I couldn't help laughing.

·

7:43 pm    October 6, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
24
It was just a matter of time... the Arabs would have faced the same chalenge even if they were not muslims...
they are an easy target, because they are not organized, unjust with eachother, none productive, and there for weak.

But, If you happen to bit sitting on a gold mine and you cann't defend it , soon or later somebody who needs it, will jump on you, regardless of what God you believe in...
It happened all over in the past, Britain did it to India, China...they even tried the US...France did it to Africa, and elsewhere... Spain and Portugal did it too...
It is a power game, religion is just the tip of the iceberg... The western countries know it , that's why they all manifacture their own weapons.
while the dictatorship states pay for them to kill eachother . It is so Dumb !!!
hehehehehe... ketret lhem kaddahek !

·

6:42 pm    October 6, 2003
Maha
23
By reading some comments on this board I just shake my head. According to some smarts pple here muslims are weak simply because we don't follow taliban style Islam. Look at arabia Saudia they closed shop and offices during prayer time,but why aren't they advanced like the kuffars??
Maybe america is following true Islam that's why they're strong.
·

5:22 pm    October 6, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
22
It is not the first time that israel bombs it's neighoring countries. it did that Lebanon, Iraq (81), Palestine etc...with the same Barbaric fashion.
Bush created the principle of "Pre-emptive strike", israel is now practicing it openly on the weak countries around her .
A camp of Palestinian refugees has become a synonyme of "terror camp".
the US administration has the same interest in the region as israel.
(Oil+expension). Oil is already pumped down from iraq to Haifa.
that is one reason among others, why Sharon, and his like, are never criticized by the US congress.
The Arabs are in the best position to get slaped on the face without being able to defend themselves.
thanks to their corrupt Arab puppets.

All of the above will affect anybody who has an islamic heritage where ever he is located . since unjustified attacks are acts of racism and humilation, the effects go beyond Iraq, Palestine or Afghanistan .
When the humilation will hit rock bottom,and after poeple's integrity will be dramatically damaged, we will be facing 2 type of poeple in the Arab/ Muslim nations.
one that want to become to the "warrior of Allah", and an other who want to become the warrior of the dollar.
One that is ready to leave earth as fast as possible , and one that is ready to kiss the devil's butt to survive or maintain a confortable living standard .
Eventially they will end up fighting eachother.

I believe that even societies where poeple walk with a bone trough their nose have the right to exist, and no, so called highly "evolved" or "civilized" entity, should have the right to enslave them or liberate them...depends how you put it...

Hopefuly all the masses of the nations will one day become consciouse enough to realise that it is a battle for a the benefit of the few pirates(5%) sitting at the top of the pyramid, and that their principles have no other purpose but to dominate everybody else underneat...Only then, we will figure out how to confront them with 100% success.

"Fari9 tassoud" does always work, at all levels .

·

4:50 pm    October 6, 2003
mb
21
just FYI...azoulay n a jamais eu la plus haute estime de la part de la comunaute juive.....et ce due au fait k il prend le sujet de la religion de facon tres modere.....et puis ben s il presentent un film juif...ben pkoi pas ...kel mal y a t il a ca ....awah le racisme 7ta f l art....du jamais vue ca ....l'art est universelle...pas de bariere de couleur, de langue de culture....ou de RELIGION!!!! c est bizarre ca ...car de ma vie j ai jamais entendu mes parents ou grands parents dire du mal des juifs...ou meme de faire la difference entre musulmans et juifs...et regardez ns....une generation de jeunes gens qui se disent cultive et qui parle encore de religion ...de ki est mieux ke ki ?? est ce ke c est ns ki iront au paradis ou les juifs???? wake up.....le monde avance.....au lieu de ca encouragons le travail ke fais azoulay au maroc et d autres juifs....c est a dire faire connaitre le maroc comme un pays pacifiste ou les juifs et musulmans vivent en communaute.....et encourager les investisseurs etranger a s installer au maroc...pour cree des emplois...etc ...bon ben la liste est longue mais je dois filer ....peace
·

3:01 pm    October 6, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
20
18
In addition, I watched an Israeli movie the other day on IFC (Independent Film Channel) and I liked it. It was well produced, great acting, and I learned a few Hebrew words. It treated the Jewish Orthodox issue. There was this student of a rabbi in a settlement, who eventually wanted to commit suicide bombing in Jeusalem undergournd tunnels to destroy a mosque. Israeli Mossad figured the plot and stopped it. It was an interesting movie. I know at a least an American jew who didn;t like it because it gave a terrible image to Orthodox jews.

Nego, the movies that Azulay pushed for in the festival could have been independent movies, neutral, peacefull, movies made by jews who want peace.

·

2:52 pm    October 6, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
19
18
Nego, a 2nd or 3rd generation Moroccan who would make it to US government would probably eb sympathetic to Moroccans in the US and in Morocco. She would probably do the same as Azoulay, if there is an internation film festival in Miami she would push for a Moroccan movie to be screened, etc. I don't think you're making a good argument there when you say jew is a jew.

I think you should rephrase your statement because honestly Mathematically it is true, logically it is true. So I have no idea what you mean. I think you should either rephrase your statement to better express your opinion, redefine your notion of "jew", or redefine your notion of "human being", ultimately the base class of jew. I know I gave you some hoemwork :) but I think it's intellectually challenging.

·

2:41 pm    October 6, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
18
Le festival de Tetouan a ?t? delaiss? (enterr?) au profit de celui de Marrakech parce que tout simplement le parrain de ce dernier est un certain Azoulay et qui l'autre ann?e a fait venir au festival un film sioniste comme il fait habituellement ? Essaouira...

et kand je dit un juif est un juif , ya des gen ki disent , arrette ton racisme.......

allah yjib lli yefhamna wmaye36ina walou...

·

2:27 pm    October 6, 2003
khwadri
17
Last summer, the Chief Rabbi of israel visited Tangiers where he met M6..Shlomo Amar, a 1948 native of Casablanca (berber) and a close associate of Ovadia Yosef, Shas' spiritual leader..if you know how radical and hateful are those moroccan sepharad.. u wouldn't ask them to come back to Morocco!
Anyway that Shlomo gave M6 a 3000 years old "Hijab" & threw some good spell to protect M6's new babe!... just some known facts about the monarchy & the jews..
·

2:07 pm    October 6, 2003
Casabarata
16
11
Je ne suis pas d'accord avec toi Adnane sur le fait que les Sionistes veulent tacher les Palestiniens avec le sang des operations martyrs. Le "Main goal" des israeliens est depuis toujours de remplacer un peuple par un autre et ceci en utilisant toutes les methodes possibles : tueries (Deir Yassine, Sabra&Chatila, Jenine...) et Diplomatie (Refus du retour des refugies palestiniens..). Les operations menees par les palestiniens frustrent toute la politique d'Israel visant a securiser le pays et ainsi encourager tous les juifs du monde a venir y vivre. JUIFS MAROCAINS, REVENEZ CHEZ VOUS AU MAROC! IL N 'Y A PAS MIEUX QUE DE VIVRE CHEZ SOI.
·

1:51 pm    October 6, 2003
the fool
15
This is one example of what our illeagal leaders do while others are work hard. The part of a headline from today's edition of Le Matin.

S.A.R. le Prince Moulay Rachid d?core plusieurs personnalit?s du 7e Art
Leurs Altesses Royales le Prince Moulay Rachid et les Princesses Lalla Meryem, Lalla Asmae et Lalla Hasna ont pr?sid?, samedi soir au Palais Royal de Marrakech, un d?ner offert par S.M. le Roi Mohammed VI en l?honneur des participants ? la 3e ?dition du Festival international du film de Marrakech (FIFM).
A leur arriv?e, Leurs Altesses Royales ont ?t? salu?es par M. Andr? Azoulay, vice-pr?sident d?l?gu? de la Fondation du Festival.

How much money has been spent on this? Do we really need this shit?Is this Islam? Are these Akhlaq?
M6 is a qawaad or Duyuti because he let his sisters hug and kiss and screw any dirty Kafir.


·

12:37 pm    October 6, 2003
dracula
14
12
Thank you for the correction. My mistake. I'm so tired.
·

12:29 pm    October 6, 2003
dracula
13
11
You're absolutely right. However, whether it is military arsenal or strategies, it is always Quwah (strenght). "Ma" in mastatatum refers to whatever in quantity, quality and nature that may put fear in the heart of the ennemis and defeat them. So we may say that the strategies used by the Israelis including what you stated and corrupting muslims and arab regimes are part of the Quwa. It is a dirty type of quwa but still, so far it is working for them.
It is so simple. Some spend their nights having orgies while others build submarines. Who's gonna win?
·

11:43 am    October 6, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
12
First let correct that ayah, it is ( wa a3iddou lahoum ma sstta6a3toum min 9ouwattin wa min riba6i alkhayli tourhibouna bihi 3adoua allahi wa 3adouakoum, wa akharina min dounihim la ta3lamounahoum allahou ya3lamouhoum...,)

I think Americans do a lot of things that we muslims should be doing, but we are not, but for this ayah, i don`t think it applies to them better than it does to the muslims, Because the meaning of that ayah, is to be careful and to do our best to keep up with the world WITHOUT USING IT and that is Tourhibouna, you don`t go around killing people so others will fear you, you just prepare your self so you can defend it, in americas case, they are not preparing them selves to defend , BUT they are preparing them selves to defeat the whole world...., that is only how i c it.

But muslims certainly don`t fit in there, exept some of them.....

But if you see how americans and europeans treat human beings, you will think that they are the muslims..., cause the real muslims, lost their akhla9... ,

·

10:05 am    October 6, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
11
9
Sometimes I try to think out of the Muslim-sympathizing box, and apply that Aya you mentioned the other way around. That is, USA is preparing all their weaponry and power to scare the weak corrupt Arab governments and eventually defeat them. I think one can argue that the same Aya can apply in this picture giving that USA, to a lot of extent, does follow many principles of God's message: hard-work, enforce justice, punish the unjust, educate men and women, fight racism, respect minorities who bring different cultures and religions, and the list goes on. Yes it's not all roses, but hell they do much more goodness than Arab governments do to their people.

So sometimes I think that Aya nowadays applies best to USA.

Whether it applies to Israel or not, is a hard question. I tend to say No way. Israel keeps injecting a drug called "Despair" into Palestinian veins which consequently results in what Israelis want to see more and mroe of: Suicide bombings.

This morning, I started believing that Israel's main goal is to keep the suicide bombings going in order to completely paint the Palestinian's image red, and keep justifying its wars. Their trigger is inject more and more drugs of despair.

This is getting weird and complicated.

·

9:55 am    October 6, 2003

abdelilah message
10
Before even hitting Iraq the first time, Professor Mahdi Elmandjra has predicted the scenarion where, Iraq, Sudan, Afghanistan, Syria and Iran would be hit. The scenario is unfolding slowly. Power speaks. Before one utters a word, one has to gain a status of authority and power.
·

9:22 am    October 6, 2003
dracula
9
Allah SWT ordered us :"Waaeddou lahum mastata'tum min Quwatin Wa ribati 'lkhail tahzimuna iha aduwa allahi wa aduwakum" We could have had the right Quwa as Allah ordered and we could have defeated the ennemies as Allah promised if we had followed Allah's perscription. Alas! What do we have?a muchacho king who still dreams of the latest in clothing fashion, jet skis, smokes, sex, etc., Emirs who spend billions of $$ in jewish casinos and prostitution, Presidents who build super luxurious villas as if they will live for ever, and the list is long.
So, let our muslim illegal leaders enjoy sex , drugs and food just like animals while aada al Islam build war arsenals. They too enjoy sex,drugs and food, but when defeat us and think that they deserve it. Not before.
·

7:39 am    October 6, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
8
Syria, like the rest of the Arab world, had its balls cut-off long ago. What can they do with more than 100k US soldiers still stationed in Iraq!? And even without that, what could they have done? Does anyone actually believe that there exists a country in the region that can take on Israel!? It's pure foolishness. You can combine all the Arab world and it's still won't be a challenge to Israel.

Do you remember when Syrian soldiers were captured by Americans this summer. They went into Syria and came back with the soldiers. The Syrian gov't didn't say a thing about it for 4 days. They're scared and paralized. Even worse, they're poor and have no leverage.

·

6:58 am    October 6, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
7
2
I don`t have soulayman`s ring to fix this, BUT as all muslims should know that ( la youldaghou almuslimou mina alju7ri marratayn( twice) ) , so if Israel keeps doing this , why do we expect them to be nice to us one day???
·

5:50 am    October 6, 2003
Casawi79
6
I wonder what would the US had done if Syria hit Israel first !!!!
Kill them all but very slowly "waraha hiya haddi"
·

10:47 pm    October 5, 2003
Ayur
5
lli 7dere rassou lmerra llewla, ghadi ye7dere rassou dima!
ach 3andhom maydirou bel'UN, mama Amrika atdire wa7ed lvito as usual
·

8:08 pm    October 5, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
4
3
Maybe one shouldn't be proud in the first place, if you don't have anything to be proud of. The worst thing is to believe in wrong expectation and capacities about yourself, when you're not up to it. The smallest hit you get should show you how much you still have to learn.
·

5:47 pm    October 5, 2003
moulzarri3a
3
encore une fois notre fierte est bafouee. jusqu'a quand allons nous vivre dans cette humiliation? jusqu'a quand?
·

3:02 pm    October 5, 2003
me@007
2
do u have any other choice my friend.
·

8:56 am    October 5, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
1
And still we see somepeople who believe in Peace with the Zionists....
·

Adnane Ben.'s notes (341)
 
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Doodling: Sheikh L7ouma..
How Moroccans Put Together a Government..
Hillareous Cat Wrestles Mouse claymation!..
ABSOLUTE RAIOO Summer 2007 Rai vol.2..
ABSOLUTE RAIOO SUMMER 2007 RAI Vol 1..
Oujda Folkloric Musicians after a long day....
Iwighd Adar by Amarg Fusion !!!!..
Alalla Yallali ft. Nabila..
Jews Support the Boston Mosque..
The a la Menthe: Maghreb French RAP..
Ya Ghrib !..... ft. Khaled, Lamine, Rai NB..
Hazzou Bina La3lam: Hajja Hamdaouia!..
Ha Elkass 7loo: Hajja Hamdaouia ft. Hamid..
Boston Moroccan Tennis Club: Mini Tournament 2..
Sidi Hbibi by Mano Negra - the unexpected :)..
Le Bachir ..
Cheb Mami.. L'ancien :) Pas Le Nouveau :(..
Summer Hidden Stress..
Fanfaraï - Rai Cuivre !..
Darouha Biya Mchaw L'Mekka w'Khallawni..
CHEB ANOUAR!..
Zoo Event Organized by Al Huda..
Navigating post-divorce..
Just what is Civic Engagement?..
To Fly Boston <-> Morocco or Not..
Meetings with Moroccan Consultative Council on Human Rights..
J'irais dormir chez vous au Maroc..
Support Morocco Autonomy Initiative to solve the Sahara issu..
Les Frères Zergui..
On the Word "Plethora"..
When The Moors Ruled In Europe..
Ya Rassoul..
BARRAKA duet Cheb Khaled & Chebba Zahouania..
Cheba Zohra & Mahadattes de Rilizane..
SKyouz Me While I Light My Spliff!..
HAMIDOU, Algeria's Playboy!..
First mnanauk. Then mahdisean!..
Karima Skalli, Nassima et Leila Hejaiej..
Rym Hakiki: Matsalni Ma Ansalek..
The Road To Guantanamo..
Matejebdoulich by Djenet..
Cuban Chaabi! Guantanamera!!..
Hadj Menouer: El Batoul !..
Parske Ana Nebghi Wahran Bezzaf!..
I declare Moe a Star!..
Ahl Zin El Fassi!..
Morocco on current TV..
My South Park Character!..
Ummah Films on current.tv !! HELP NEEDED..
Ana Smayti Sa3id!..
 
2006
Al-Hawli Jokes..
Zawiya Qadiriya Boudchichiya Open Air Speech..
US Patent by Sa Majeste H. Roi du Maroc..
Jahh Bless Mon! Feeling down to earth tonight!..
Cannot Believe These Idiots!..
NESS LA CITY: All?e Sans Retour! LOL..
When Lotfi Attar Rides Matabkish wave! You Lissann mon!..
KUDOS TO Cheikh Sidi Bemol & Band!!..
No Comment! DARRITOUNI.....
Mortality Meets Online Status..
Michael Richard Busted and Sorry!..
The UMMA Clinic..
Hanane Fadili Take on Shouaffa(tt)..
Hijab: Strict Code or Fashion Barcode ..
To The Fasting Darling..
Rimitti: Ana Li Ghrasset aNakhla....
Reminiscing Tex Avery Cartoons!..
Happiest Guy in Morocco!..
The Super-cool Hanane Fadili..
Cette Affaire d'Avions ? Londres..
Watch 2M Television..
American Muslim Fun Video Blogging!..
Open War in the Middle East?..
Touche Po a Mon Zidane!..
Ronaldinho Joined Zawya....
Marock!..
Draw Live!..
Zoo Animals Need e'space..
Les ABRANIS: Prodigy of Rockabyl..
Sofiane Saidi: Cet Algerien Trip-rai Hopper..
Lemchaheb Legacy ..
Zahra Hindi, Beautiful You!..
Jajouka's Winds of Moroccana..
Google Language Translation: English to/from Arabic..
Aziz Mekouar, Ambassador of the Kingdom of Morocco to the US..
Google Shoots Microsoft.. One.. More.... Time!..
Monsieux Mehdi Ben Barka: Un Marocain Assassiné Qui Visait P..
Yale, Taliban and Weld L'Hashemi....
Near-eastern Muslim Scholars..
Three Algerians on Highway =]..
Moroccan Riverdance!..
Moroccan Candle-toe Dance..
Moroccan Qassida: Vraie Poesie!..
LA3MARNA Legacy..
Chilling Like a Mqedem in Morocco..
Alone in the Wilderness..
Are Iranians and Americans Blowing it Up?..
Are we a virus..?..
How come Morocco is silent to Dalfour, Sudan?..
Barreling Towards an Iraqi Civil War..
Pomme and Kelly ..
Intelligent Design and Evolution in not so American lands..
The Prophets animated by Steve Whitehouse..
More with Claudio Bravo..
Muslim Texans..
Hajj Stampede Gone Ugly!..
Self-portraits 001-002..
Why Faith?..
Online 7awli Souk!..
2006 !..
 
2005
Derbouka Bled Attack..
Adopted HIV kids from Romania..
Operation Mapping Raioo Love!..
They burnt themselves.. Come'on!..
My Winamp Skin: The New Beetle..
The Forbidden Zone film that electrified me!..
Cousins skyblogging..
Chilean artist in Morocco..
Moroccan Blue tops colors!..
Osama in FAMILY GUY..
Baraka Art..
Itsy Bitsy knowledge..
The most misunderstood [and growing..] world religion, Islam..
Moroccan Christians..
Polygamy in USA..
Architecturing to joy!..
This Moorish cult in America..
The Magnificient King Vulture..
Al-Rashid and the Fart..
On the subject of Evil Eye..
Anecdote on Life and 3ibada..
Anecdote on Giving in Time of Need..
T-shirt design: L'Amoureux!..
Craig Thompson art..
The Real Origin of Smileys :)..
T-shirt design: Happy Sailor!..
T-shirt design: threadless in Kufi..
T-shirt design: Magic e-lamp..
My August '05 T-shirt Designs ..
Your Living Space..
The Raioo Story: 2. in the garden..
The Raioo Story: 1. intro..
Arabic Beat and Instrument Music Wanted!..
 
2004
RA?NA RAI Legacy..
Algerian Chaabi..
Nour L'Koufi (Gharnati)..
Hidalgo in Morocco..
Le Secret d'Elissa Rhais..
Imam Shafii. Soni N'nafssa..
Feqqas (Moroccan Biscuiti)..
Casablanca Connect..
 
2003
ZEBDA! Un Groupe Genial!..
Al Moutanabbi. Idha Ghamarta..
Imam Shafii. sa'fir tajid 3iwada..
boston.food.Tangierino..
Long Distance Honey ..
The Working Wife and Husband..
The Hammam Public Bath: Do you still go there?..
Hip Hop Classic Favorites!..
Down With Love..
Lord Of The Rings..
How To create a Moroccan remix of a video clip ? ..
 
2002
Why we don't eat Porc?..
Do You Play Music?..
Hidoura: Your Moroccan Natural Carpet..
Khaddouj Slam-dunking From Marrakesh To New York..


FAVORITES
Hmida Rass Lmida à L'Avare de Molière!
Moroccan City Names
Shining ability is a gift...
Halloween SPECIAL 2007: La Mort D'une Souri!
Cheikha Rimitti: 83 Years of Life...
Why do we pray ?
short ones
ABSOLUTE RAIOO Summer 2007 Rai vol.2
Cheba Zohra & Mahadattes de Rilizane
Close Encounters of the Moroccan Kind!
Biyouna
Another attempt at writing. Will this language ever feel natural?
North Africa Journal
Moroccan Tattoos
From Los Angeles to Casablanca!
Amina Alaoui Lyrics
Dr. Hassan Al-Turabi
Vulgarity as revolution: Lemsakh we tsalguit
Les Oiseaux De Figuig!
ghir bessyas a moulay!
QURAN FLASH
Moroccan Playing Cards Game ronda v1.0
A Call From Algeria to Help Suffering Little Boy Mounib!
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