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Adnane Ben.
Boston USA
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Saddam Hussein Captured: What's Next?
12:00:00 AM Sunday Dec 14, 2003

Saddam Hussein was captured by US and coalition forces on Saturday December 13, 2003 near his hometown Dikrit hiding in a 6ft underground hole dubbed "Spider Hole". This ends a 9 month hunt for the ex-leader of toppled Iraq.

Saddam said he believes he was a "just and firm" leader for Iraq.

Saddam will be turned back to Iraqi justice.

So what is next for Iraqis? for the Middle East? for the war?

Did the capture of Saddam Hussein add any value to Bush's war in Iraq? will Bush earn any points to help his re-election?

Some facts remain: No Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) are found in Iraq so far.

How Saddam Hussein was captured - BBC News
Saddam's young grandkids break down in tears - Independent Online

The content of this page —graphics, text and other elements—is © Copyright 2007 prospective author, and Raioo, Inc., only when stated otherwise, and may not be reprinted or retransmitted in whole or in part without the expressed written consent of the publisher.

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2:14 pm    March 20, 2004
Well Saddam is captured what's next?

here's somthing i just cant understand, just the other day on the news President 'BUSH' appealed for the U.S allies to show..'deeper resolve' in the global war on terrorism and warned that appeasing terrorists in the wake of recent deadly attacks only encourages further violence.

WELL ISNT THAT A SURPRISE OF THE FREAKIN' CENTURY!..Bush is the one who created all this moushkila..and l7ham..and thinking their is mastive struction in Iraq..and after Saddam Hussien was captured he has the NERVE to go back on the news and say..O..THEIRS NO MASIVE STRUCTION IN IRAQ.......WELL SEWA DA MOK!
that's what really ticks me off about 'BUSH'!
well thats all i have to say for now..buh bye and shokran


5:47 pm    December 18, 2003
Yes Adnane ,please do that.

5:46 pm    December 18, 2003
Moroccan webmaters are incredible, I just visited another site called,the censorship over there is worse than in raioo. I really have to give credit to Adnane for that even though I don't agree him.At wafin, they have some pseudo-intellectual write stuffs that only excitting to him,and then he invite pple to comment on the topic but he pulish only the comments that he approve of and delet any reply that he don't like even when if they're not off topics. What good a debate is for,if everybody agree with everybody??

5:37 pm    December 18, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
anonymous, if you're still interested in discussing this we can take it off topic and I'll create a new topic for that. Actually it'll be nice to hear what the other people think. I always look for practical ideas that make a good difference.

4:22 pm    December 18, 2003
Let me tell you what I think. I think you didn't read my original post carefully, but if you did and you're still bothered then I think you're unreasonable. In that case, you don't seem to grasb some basics of democracy, that raioo adopted and is building up to more foundations of democracy. Let me clarify, and it is very simple.

Posting: Right now, if there is a discussion you can post freely. If you're extremely out of the topic or foul you get a warning, but then you're out. I believe getting rid of nuisances is natural, and surely part of any democracy.

Proposing a Topic: You can suggest topics as you very well know in the famous "little" box. Many topics in the past were accepted. Those that didn't either weren't current, were vague or unrelated. So that's a good step towards democracy: being able to submit your proposal.

Enhancing Proposing a Topic: My original post suggested step forward to the submittal process. You go ahead and create the topic yourself, but has to go through review by select raioosters who have earned their credibility throughout time. I believe democracy is not about giving every single one the right to change the constitution or the institutions or the highway direction. People can propose the change and the features, and credible representatives decide.


3:53 pm    December 18, 2003
Re: discussion system enhancement
Professor Adnane you wrote
Sorry ,I find your answer not convincing at all. And who suggested that topic,one of your friends?And how many suggested topics have you rejected?? Let's be honest,you created this site just to stroke your own ego.It's feel good when you create a space where only your ideas are debated .Just like having your little dictatorship where you have total control over what pple can say and what they cannot say.Typical moroccan style democracy ,did you learn that from Hassan II or M6??

2:59 pm    December 18, 2003
Also if you're looking for the other style of discussion boards you have in mind, you can visit the following:

2:51 pm    December 18, 2003
Re:Raioo Discussion Sstem Enhancement.

* Honestly I never saw a forum like this.
-->thanks, this affirms that raioo is unique

* No wonder few people visit this site.
-->thanks for visiting, and come back again next time with a real nickname other than anonymous


2:50 pm    December 18, 2003
Re:Raioo Discussion Sstem Enhancement.
Ok professor Adnane.
-->thanks for the title, I aspire to be a professor of truth and justice

* that's a fancy title you've got there "system enhancement"
-->not quiet fancy, but rather inspirational

* and please don't tell I'm off topic or I have to post my suggestion in a corner by clicking the little box so tou you can come later on and just click DELET,and end of the story.
-->no it's ok, you can reply. and I only delete posts that are foul whether in or out of topic

* You claim that you don't use censorship in your web site.
-->I never claimed I don't use censorship. I said I'd like to minimize censorship. This only gets accomplished if there are fewer posts to censor. This only happens when people stop writing foul posts and extremely out of topic posts, except for raioo admin announcements

* But just by creating this strange discussion board you're silencing anyone with opposing views.
-->i like opposing views, they give me a sense of direction for my own view. I silence those who don't give any view at all while being idiotic and foul. I do that for the benefit of the readers and the site's quality. Raioo never intended to aspire to classic discussion boards. Raioo chooses to go a simpler way, but ultimately converge towards a brilliant interactive site for discussion

* So we can only debate the topics that papa Adnane is allowing us to discuss
-->I have picked topics in the past that people suggested. I give you 1 recent example: Social discussions: what have you done for Morocco?

* Come on man,we're not children in a grammer school.
-->children are innocent beautiful people. no comparison with some censored raioo posters in the past.


2:04 pm    December 18, 2003
Re:Raioo Discussion Sstem Enhancement.
Ok professor Adnane ,that's a fancy title you've got there "system enhancement",and please don't tell I'm off topic or I have to post my suggestion in a corner by clicking the little box so tou you can come later on and just click DELET,and end of the story.You claim that you don't use censorship in your web site.But just by creating this strange discussion board you're silencing anyone with opposing views.So we can only debate the topics that papa Adnane is allowing us to discuss.Come on man,we're not children in a grammer school.Honestly I never saw a forum like this.No wonder few people visit this site.

1:41 pm    December 18, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
V?ritable trait d'union entre les MRE et le minist?re charg? de la communaut? marocaine r?sidant ? l'?tranger, ce site a pour but aussi de d?velopper une r?elle interactivit? afin de mieux cerner les attentes de nos compatriotes ? l'?tranger.

Lancement du site Internet d?di? ? la Communaut? marocaine r?sidant ? l?Etranger :


12:27 pm    December 18, 2003
INFO: Raioo Discussion System Enhancement

Let me say that this is out of the subject, and is not meant to insinuate blame on any raiooster.

I have thought for a while about ways to help raioosters organize their thoughts, follow the discussion easily, and contribute to it successfully. This has become an interesting side research area for me personnaly. It puts a challenge to program a system that produces a successful discussion under an embrella of free constructive speech, with minimum censorship. You will be surprised that such a system not only involves dynamic internet programming knowledge, file management, a slick graphical user interface, but also a knowledge of human psychology and to some extent Moroccan sociology. It sounds crazy but I chose to take the latter parameters into the equation.

Discussions on raioo have proven informative many times, yet mediocre sometimes. But our goal altogether should be to produce Brilliant discussions All the time. I also would like to develop a platform where raioosters can create directly topics to discuss, subject to review by a group of raioosters who earn their special membership.

I will have a little box on the side soon where you can drop in your suggestions on enhancing the discussion system in raioo. To suggest new topic you can still use the box "Propose a NEW TOPIC!"

For starters, I will add a simple thing that could hopefully make a difference. Each new post must contain a concise and related short subject line. This should tell us to some extent what your post is talking about, and confine your own idea. A reply post will inherit the subject line of its parent post.



10:17 am    December 18, 2003
he nationalized the irak petroleum company, he lauched a huge alphabetization campaign and made bagdad university one of the best.these are the good things i can remember, in the seventies when he was still vice-president.

9:52 am    December 18, 2003
please forgive me if you felt i was rude.. i was talking about the author of that article.. i m glade that you shared that with us ..



9:51 am    December 18, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
The US wants Saddam to be killed before he goes to a Trial : interesting

Good articles...,12,17,208032


9:36 am    December 18, 2003
Thanks for sharing that article with us. Good one!

hehehehe!! How can you translate Mounir's last posting into english and still keep the same sneaky meaning. I think it's funny!!!

I have an idea!! As much most people dislike, to a degree of hate, saddam, let's talk about the good things that he might have done in his period f ruling.
I am Just suggesting here, so please don't attacking me in the pretex that I like Saddam ;)
We learn something from everything, right?!!
what did we learn from Saddam?
If any, What are the things that you think Saddam did to make his country a prosporous one?


6:51 am    December 18, 2003


5:57 am    December 18, 2003
salam all,i want to answer u tarik,first labas meni se7e7ti klamekk,u want atack me no problem l9iti kanakol lkemos de jnan lwlaid hahahahahahah,chof akhoya tarikk ana dert copy lthis URL because kent nchof fe news par internet wana nti7 fe had site gelt nwerih lbachar yhcof wach hadchi vrais oula la,ama ila jiti 3liya akhoya tarikk lah yghere9 lbohom sfina ya sedamm ya bochh ya ghirooo,kolhom chefera oudeba7a ou9etala,lmohim hadechi machi so9na.
amicalement mounir .
tarik chof fiya chof cheftini? hana ghadi nelgiha m3ak ... hahahahahahah.
aller bye

8:48 pm    December 17, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
Jacques Chirac ignored strong criticism from leaders of France's six million Muslims yesterday and called for legislation barring the Islamic headscarf and other conspicuous religious signs from state schools.
The French Council of the Muslim Faith called the president's decision "disastrous". It is afraid that this and other steps to restrict Islamic practices will worsen race relations.

8:35 pm    December 17, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
anti saddam
"With all the people he executed, with all the wars he fought, this is a humiliating way to see him. The least he could have done is blow himself up," Hassan said. Sadly, he added, "He is our president and should have put up a fight."

8:29 pm    December 17, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
anti saddam

7:13 pm    December 17, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
Well whether they caught Saddam 4 days ago, or 4 months ago doesn't make a difference at all. The fact is he is caught. Whoever tries to come up with some "exotic" observation or conspiracy is heart-broken. This "Sheikh" probably didn't play when he was young that game you find usually in magazine, where you compare 2 almost identical photos trying to find the intricate differences :)

6:58 pm    December 17, 2003
correction ..
what i wanted to say is : " i am not attacking you mounir"



6:46 pm    December 17, 2003

I just watched 60 minutes on TV, and obviously the dates on the tree were yellow.. so unless all these reporters who covered the story are part of this conspiracy.. I m afraid that what your guy is saying about the capture deception is wrong!!
Arabs always wants to jump into these conclusions.. but usually make themselves look more dump... I m attacking you Mounir , you just gave a link ..



4:59 pm    December 17, 2003
why are you attacking Adnane? He didn't ask " what did you do for the royal family?" he is asking what have you done for your country for the morocan people. why are you getting so deffensive?

12:14 pm    December 17, 2003
nothing good coming out of your mouth.. show me your work instead of critisizing everyone is cheap.. being on the critisizing seat is always easy

12:12 pm    December 17, 2003
did anyone notice in TV , what this article is claiming? they are letting reportes chekout saddam's hideout..

can you see the dates on the tree?


10:57 am    December 17, 2003
bien dit Adnane!!!

ils ont dit ke les tueries et les bombes terroristes vont baisser apres avoir capturer Sadam!!! car selon les states la cause c est sadam ( enfin c est ce k ils disent aux gens )...alors pkoi ca continue tjs ??? qui est vraiment derriere ces manifestation et ces rebellions en irak ??? la syrie??? al quaeda??? ou les sunnites fideles au pouvoir de sadam??????? c est vraiment confus ds ma tete...le peut rien faire car il est affaiblit par la guerre...qui finance tt ca ??? contre ki les americains se battent ils vraiment en irak??????


10:49 am    December 17, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
You're out of here until you change your foul language. Raioo is closed for your types.

9:09 am    December 17, 2003
salam all.
i would only add a news to the capture of sedamm.
plz read this link there are pictures fromm FBI......hahahha tfercho. read this link :

8:56 am    December 17, 2003
Mr Man,

Who is asking you to fight?!!?Snap out of it man! And don?t let your rage blind your eyes and mind. If you insist on fighting something, I suggest that you start with your inner self.

Thank you?


3:54 am    December 17, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
anti saddam
Saddam's regime including photographs of mass graves and human remains.

Annan called for justice for the victims.

"The removal from Kuwait of civilians ? men and women ? their execution in cold blood in remote sites in Iraq, and a decade-long cover-up of the truth constitute a grave violation of human rights and international humanitarian law," he said


3:22 am    December 17, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
Human rights groups said they had also documented thoroughly the Anfal campaign against the Kurds that same year, when the Hussein government is accused of destroying hundreds of villages in northern Iraq and killing some 70,000 people in suppression of an Iranian-backed Kurdish insurgency.


3:11 am    December 17, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
La rage du r?gime contre les chiites ne s'arr?te pas l?. Ainsi, en 1998 et 1999, la ville d'Albu Aysh, dans le sud du pays, est enti?rement d?truite. Il faudra du temps pour prendre toute la mesure de la r?pression. L'exhumation des fosses communes vient ? peine de commencer; des tonnes de documents sont ? analyser, des t?moignages ? recueillir. En revanche, ce travail-l? a d?j? ?t? fait au Kurdistan, devenu autonome sous la protection de la communaut? internationale, en 1991. On y dispose donc d'informations plus pr?cises.

En 1987 et 1988, Saddam Hussein lance une quarantaine d'attaques au gaz qui font des milliers de morts dans plusieurs localit?s du Kurdistan irakien. L'attaque la plus importante est celle, les 16 et 17 mars 1988, de Halabja, une ville de 45 000 habitants o?, selon les estimations, entre 3 500 et 7 000 personnes seraient mortes, des milliers d'autres subissant, ? pr?sent encore, de graves s?quelles. Les agents utilis?s ?taient un cocktail d'yp?rite et de gaz neurotoxiques, tels que le sarin et le tabun. Mais il n'y a pas eu que Halabja. Une quarantaine de villages, au moins, ont subi le m?me sort. Apr?s 1991, lorsque des fosses communes ont ?t? exhum?es, des analyses d'?chantillons des sols ont prouv? l'existence d'agents chimiques dans plusieurs d'entre elles.


2:59 am    December 17, 2003

fender (full stop) message
MAN, berred chwiya a sa7bi, we won't get anywhere and won't come to any conclusion if we keep on following this line of discussion. isn't democracy all about respecting what the others think.

1:18 am    December 17, 2003
Lui, is that you again? get out of here man, you and your buddy Adnane are full of shit. We don't need lessons from you about patriotism.Have you ever asked what really happened to all those who fought for morocco indepedance.All of them were killed or forced into exile by the fucking dictators Hassan II.So you asking us to fight for what??

11:08 pm    December 16, 2003
Mr Man,

I tried to make sense of your attack on Adnane but without any success.

You are blaming him for ?being insensitive to the families of the victims?!

1. How did you get to this conclusion?
2. What victims are you talking about?
3. Are you the designated layer of the families of the victims who ever they are?

You are accusing him of ?supporting the faggot M6?.

1.How do you know that M6 is a faggot?
2. If you don?t support M6, is that mean that everybody else has to follow you?
3. Is supporting M6 become a crime nowadays?

You are asserting that he does not ?help other fellow Maroccans by this website?.

1. Again, how did you get to that conclusion?
2. At least he is putting this website all together by himself, what did you do to help your fellow Moroccans? If you did something, you are still welcome to share with us in the new discussion that he just opened.

I hope by now, you understand that you are wrong in your accusations.

Please let?s look at what we did about any matter before criticizing what others did about it. Keep in mind that it is almost always easy to destruct something than construct it.

Thank you?


10:00 pm    December 16, 2003
Ok Adnane I'll moderate my language ,but I'm shocked at the level of your insensitivity to the families of the victims. All what you worry about it's that we support the faggot king M6. again I say shame on you Adnane boy .you're not helping your follow moroccans by onpening this web site.

9:47 pm    December 16, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
I'll ask you in a nice way to stop using such foul language. People come here everyday to discuss in a polite and intellectual way. I gave you a warning. I leave it up to you at this point.

9:31 pm    December 16, 2003
Adnane, again you're begging the question. Sorry to say that you're the most dishonnest moroccan I ever met in my life.You fucking punk ass insensitive to the brave moroccans who lost their life in Tazmamirt concentation camps .And you still have the nerve to ask us to support the criminal royal familly. Shame on you Adnane,and don't fucking expect me to respect you for your silly web site.That's an insult to all free and honorable moroccans. Apparently you seem to have no honor, so fuck you Adnane boy. And please don't claim that you speak in the name of all moroccans.

9:09 pm    December 16, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
Actually the discussion about "What have you done for Morocco?" was opened a while ago, it was just never advertised. Here it is:

6:53 pm    December 16, 2003
You still haven't answer the more important questions .. what it is that you have done that would makes us say that you are a patriotic Moroccan who helps other and takes initiatives for improving the current situation..

Democracy doesn't come to you ,,, you need to work for it.. the leaders will lead you the way you let them lead you .. I m not saying that you need to overthrow the king.. I m totally against that .. What I m saying is that , we are all in this together, kings, gov, citizens, parties, intellectuals.. everyone has a part that he/she should play...

I heard a hadith before that says ??you are ruled by people like??.( I m sorry I can??t recall the enire hadith in Arabic) I didn??t like it at first, I felt some people would use it in racist ways, like to say that Arabs don??t deserve democracy.. etc.. but what this hadith actually emodies what I said in the previous paragraph.

I call leaders undemocratic only when they steal democracy from the people, M6 and Hassan II inherited the country in its ??undemocratic?? state.. It??s not like there a was a prosperous, democratic Morocco before them and they came and took it from us.. If you take an average Moroccan he/she would rule the country in the same manner Hassan II did... many people complain about lack of democracy but they act themselves in undemocratic ways...



4:56 pm    December 16, 2003
Hmmmm....3lach kayerek3ou ???!!!
c est tres simple, y a qqch ki s appelle le protocole....t en a deja entendu parler???? M6 a tjs eu horreur de ce genre de protocol d ailleurs et il a essaye de le changer mais en puis crois moi il oblige personne a lui faire le baise main , if u meet him and just say hi he won t kill u u know ....
lmouhim un autre point pense k au contraire Adnane il a tjs ete juste ...(plus ou moins car tt est relatif ds ce bas monde) qu il a raison sur le off meme je le fais souvent ...mais c est k apres une semaine de discussion on se retrouve avec un topic ki n a rien a voir avec les c est deroutant....

4:35 pm    December 16, 2003

abdelilah message
Actually shahada lillah. Adnane does not follow censorship in this site compared to other sites. He is just directing the debate and suggesting ideas. Houwwa gaa3 kan daar lkharita dyal maghrib feeha Sahara dyal UN w katgoulleeh lemkaddem. I do not agree with you the guy leaves Raioosters a big margin of freedom.

2:46 pm    December 16, 2003
Dear Adnane,sorry I don't agree with you,you trying to suppress freedom of speech by controling the topics of this discussion board.What are you afraid of ??even though you live in Boston you still acting like you're under the control of "l'mqadem dial el houma",you're afraid you may receive "convocation min elmoqat3a".It's sad to see that even moroccans living abroad still have a slave mentality.Like the arabic proverb "al3abid la tassna3o al hadhara" slaves don't create sivilisation. Adnane explain to us why moroccans still prostrate (kay rek3o) in front of the king. Aren't muslims supposed to worship Allah only ?? If this not slavery,then what is it??

1:49 pm    December 16, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
Check out this Guardian article which suggests Resistance to Occupation Will Grow in Iraq.,3604,1107178,00.html
Sami Ramadani
Monday December 15, 2003
The Guardian


1:35 pm    December 16, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
GrowingSoul, Your last question is a good one that one raiooster (Lui) also proposed a while ago. It stems nicely out of this discussion, but I am worried it might own it. Let's hold our thoughts until I create a seperate discussion tonight.

Here is your question:

"Before you say that M6 is a dictator(I can't help but scoff here), ask yourself first what have you done to help your OWN country. Did you ever give your time, energy, skills, care, devotion to your community simply to help others and the country (no rewards that is)?"


1:20 pm    December 16, 2003
Dj's Playing the Same Song

What do you guys think? how about from now on; if you have a point to make, please back it up with FACTS, i.e., Articles, books, websites, whatever.
You can still use facts as a basis for your own analysis and deductions.
May be then, we can have objective views leading to constructive discussions.

Back to the subject, I guess the question is who are our enemies and who are our friends?

- Are we, Arabs, really just paranoids making up enemies in our minds or are there factual reasons?
- Our friends, are they real friends?
- What do you think of yourself as an Arab and what do you see as your duty to help your nation? (No offense if you're not an Arab)?

Questions to keep in subject.
- Who is the GOD of dictators, who created Saddam?
- Who now can judge the GOD of dictators 'him'self?

Now, a more specific question, which I never fail to ask everytime some one disgustingly critisize M6 with no proofs.

- Before you say that M6 is a dictator(I can't help but scoff here), ask yourself first what have you done to help your OWN country. Did you ever give your time, energy, skills, care, devotion to your community simply to help others and the country (no rewards that is)?

Let's start from the source. After all, it all starts and finishes there ;)


12:38 pm    December 16, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..

12:17 pm    December 16, 2003
ce nest pas juste ce qui se passe a sadam car buch et sharon sont des terroristes aussi et ils doivent etre presentes a la justice

12:15 pm    December 16, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message

"That`s exactly why i said that, can you tell me any of the Muslims who are not doing the same thing he did? or did the same thing he did? "

Given your answer, I must apologize because I probably did not understand your previous comments. My only reply would be: how about the Muslims in Malaysia and Singapore and maybe even pre-musharaf Pakistan. We can even look at smaller models: how about the muslims in rachidya, tetouan, asela, oujda, figuig, ouarzazat, bel-herrash, sfaqes, ... But as I said, I am probably not understanding you correctly.

"Can you tell me who ever cared about the Ummah alislamia? no body from our kings and presidents.., they all care about collecting Money and opening accounts in switzerland..."

What is this Ummah anyway? I can hardly define it let alone care about it. Corruption and caring about some "ummah" are unrelated. Corruption and caring about your constituency; now that's an argument worth making. Even then, there are plenty of politicians who care about their constituencies. Not as much as we'd like, but enough given our education level.


11:44 am    December 16, 2003
It's not actually about blaming or not. It is a matter of being truthful. Anyways, I'm glad you feel good about what you do.

11:30 am    December 16, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
Yes we can talk about M6 in this web site but it will be healthier if people can preserve their thoughts and opinion until a related discussion arrives.

I always had a dream to see people sticking to the topic. I think it can be done. am not trying to brainwash you by telling you to stick to the topic. It is for your own good. To be able to follow the discussion, to be able to entertain ideas in your mind well enough before posting.

Take it as an excercise of communication.


11:11 am    December 16, 2003
this message is not related with the topic.
Can we talk about M6 in this web site ?
because there is a lot of question about him

11:10 am    December 16, 2003
He's been there since 1999 for God's sake. He could have done a lot. What did he do for unemployment? Giving a raise to MPs?

i don t know how u guys see the economy ...etc but seriously, don t tell me you were expecting the percentage of unemployment to go down in morocco???? to create employments we need to bring first foreign investment ( morocco is not rich therefore we rely on foreign investment) and to get those people to invest in our country well we need a lot of things : make them trust our respecting the human rights for example.. ( which they are doing now)...freedom of speech..., get rid of corruption ...etc et zid ou zid a sidi ....the list is long...
we can not get rid of that stuff easily, it will take time...and they are working on s easy to talk when u see it from the outside...give them some credit man...


11:08 am    December 16, 2003
Did you know that the late Hassan II used to be a spy for the Moussad? Every time the Arab League had a summit in Morocco,he used to install secret camera and listning in the conference room sohis zionists masters can watch it live from Tel Aviv.When finally some arabs intelligence agency became suspicious,they decided no more Arab summit in Morocco.So the last arab summit was in Fes in 1981.And later on the Israeli government issued a postal stamp with Hassan II picture on it,to honor him for his service to the Jewish state.

11:05 am    December 16, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
I don't blame the king that's for sure. I actually try nowadays to stop blaming. I believe that life will be much better without blaming.

I also find joy in knowing my limits and sticking with saying what I can do. I have found that preaching and speaking of abstract wishes without suggesting concrete plan for how to achieve is a great weakness. I stop doing that and I feel good.

It is always nice to suggest a few steps here and there that can be done and can take you and people a little bit ahead, rather than fill the internet databases, including raioo's, with abstract wishes, empty calls for revolutions.



10:59 am    December 16, 2003
What's the point if we will always be blocked by the regime. Our own develpement is crucial, but we need political leaders to pave the way. We still have same old nasty politicians in power. We are going nowhere with a regime like ours.
God meant to show Saddam's faith to everyone, and again I hope others get the warning.
I understand just like thousands of Moroccans, you avoid blaiming the king and I have noted that in many of your inputs in the past. You probably do it for a reason or may be you are convinced.
My conviction is that the king and his company are the root of all the social, political, financial and moral problems in Morocco. They love power, they love money. They are sick.
Please take no offence.tnx

10:33 am    December 16, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
I extracted an idea from Message 58 and I wish to reply with it to Message 61. Things have to be done in parallel. You cannot say we need to focus now just on our political structure, and ignore our own development which we have a lot of control on and should be a higher priority.

10:30 am    December 16, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
I started to dislike Saddam 13 Years Ago, when my fellow friends cheered his Invasion to Iraq....., some people took them a long time to figure out who/how he was.....

when i said his Pictures reflects that of Arabs/Muslims, i was talking Generaly...., I`m sure there are Muslims/Arabs who work hard, and have dignity etc, no doubt about that, but what i was talking about is the whole picture as a Muslims....
or as A Muslim Oummah if we can say that....

Rasta Garcia,
* He was a tyrant who went to bed with every super power to maintain his reign. The tables have turned; now his bed-mates are his enemies, not to mention that he was a servant more than a bed-mate

*That`s exactly why i said that, can you tell me any of the Muslims who are not doing the same thing he did? or did the same thing he did?

Can you tell me who ever cared about the Ummah alislamia? no body from our kings and presidents.., they all care about collecting Money and opening accounts in switzerland...

That was just my Opinion...


10:23 am    December 16, 2003
Un d?bat a fait rage r?cemment au Maroc concernant le Conseil Consultatif des Droits de l?Homme (CCDH) devant enclencher des enqu?tes et des indemnisations concernant les victimes des ann?es de plomb.

Les membres du CCDH d?un c?t? font face ? de vives critiques de la part des organisations des droits de l?Homme et de d?fense des familles des disparues (AMDH, ASDHOM, FVJ, OMDH, ?) sur le sujet de la commission V?rit? et Justice qui a ?t? renomm? Equit? et R?conciliation.

Dans ce cadre, le Forum V?rit? et Justice a organis? comme chaque ann?e un s?minaire sur les droits humains au Maroc ? Paris avec la participation de Driss Benzekri du CCDH, et de nombreuses organisations des droits de l?Homme.


10:11 am    December 16, 2003
M6 and Bush are REAL obstacles to any move, whether you like or not. Many inputs have suggested that M6 is new in the office and that we need to give him a chance. How much time does he need to realise that he's supposed to serve. Not to be worshiped. He's been there since 1999 for God's sake. He could have done a lot. What did he do for unemployment? Giving a raise to MPs? What did he do for environment? Still selling our beaches to US companies for toxic dampsters? and on and on and on.
Please stop giving him excuses. He's been there for long . He did not do a thing for Morocco. I do hope he'll realise that before he ends up just like his similar, Saddam.
One should be nut to believe he can own a whole country and its people.

10:09 am    December 16, 2003
America dosen't bother friendly dictators. Hassan II killed 10 000 innocent moroccans since he come to power ,plus the 600 potical prisoners that are still missing.Friendly dictator Hassan II and his henchmen (Ofkir & Dlimi) killed tousand of innocent moroccans in the Rif and in Casablanca uprising that took place in 1965 and later.All this crimes are documented by Amnesty International, but never reported by western media.And moroccans are afraid to talk about it even on the internet..The culture of fear instilled during Hassan II rule is still much alive today.It's sad situation,one has to be naive to believe that M6 is going to chang things.All those responsable of torture during Hassan II still hold their government jobs or having a comfortable retirement.Bottom line is as long you have the bloody monarchy in power nothing will change.And by the way torture is going on right now in our Kingdom as we speak.

9:59 am    December 16, 2003
Salam alaikoum,

I didn't read all the participation, for the simple reason that in this issue it's preferable to express its own point of view before reading the others! Saddam hussein was captured, we don't know if it's a good or bad for the arab world, only time will show us this! But i think that the positive side of the american invasion in iraq is that all the arab leaders will ( i hope) think twice now before doing anything wrong for their people, the negative side of the store is that iraq is under american occupation and all the iraqis will pay the war from their own blood and oil of course!
I read some people here talking about Hassan II and the royal family, but I think that morocco is the ONLY country in the arab world that now is dealing seriously with people jailed in tazmamart and their families, i don't know if some of u have the opportunity to see moroccan Tv, but a new human rights organization named "al 7a9i9a wal insaf " was established under the supervision of M6 and famous non-gouvernemental personalities ( AMDH, amnesty...) to give important sums of money to those people, i know that money will not bring back their lives or the years they spend underground, their health and their families, but in my opinion, it's the only act of recognizing what was happening in morocco in what we call now "black years" is a good step in democracy process in morocco.
And talking about democracy, it's something very relative, i don't think that U.S has more democracy that any other country, maybe they have it on paper, but is it really applied?


9:54 am    December 16, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message

Your feelings of sorrow for us (thanks by the way, we appreciate it) are clouding your judgement and your ability to make logical comparisons.

* He was a tyrant who went to bed with every super power to maintain his reign. The tables have turned; now his bed-mates are his enemies, not to mention that he was a servant more than a bed-mate

* Arabs/muslims are now poor, suspect, and in some countries, largely uneducated. This is not a formula for despair, rather a picture that identifies a clear path towards improvement. Any incremental improvement in general education in our countries will have a magnified impact on our collective social and economic standing. Symptoms of pauverty, largely encapsulated in radicalism, will shrink with an improved set of educational and economic opportunities. Our political will should improve as well leading to a gradual deconstruction of old institutional walls surrounding the political process in our societies.

There is every reason to be optimistic. So, to transpose the picture of a fallen dictator on a large ethnic group is 1) morally wrong and 2) symptomatic of a deep feeling of insecurity and disgust with one's own roots (not that people shouldn't have those feelings, it is a free world after all.)

As an old raiooster used to say: Jah bless (where is he by the way, I haven't seen his posts in a while?)


8:57 am    December 16, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
Negotiator, even if we might feel tempted to see the weakness of Arabs as in the fate of Saddam, let's not make any comparisons and confuse ourselves. I am one who started to dislike Saddam 8 years ago.

I think Arabs and Muslims have a lot of dignity, we have people who go on with their lives and work hard either in their countries or abroad. We cannot reflect our governments on us. If we are going to do that we should also consider that the people might have contributed to the failure of governments.

I still believe Arabs and Muslims have dignity, wisdom and potential to go on with their ives and co-exist in the world, love this world and contribute to its success.

One starts by himself/herself, do that today, don't wait for Bush or M6 to do it for you.


8:38 am    December 16, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
Gallek Castro... wa kikh kikh kikh

If really this Invasion was to liverate the people of Iraq and give them their freedom, then yeah i would expect the US to go to liberate Cuba as well, though i think that should have been done first cause Cuba is right here, machi like Iraq over 5000 Miles away......., But that shows you that the Reason to go to Iraq isn`t to liberate them but to get what they Have , OIL OIL OIL OIL and more OIL......

Saddam`s picture shows not only his failure but that of all the ARABS/MUSLIMS .....

we all look like him , no Dignity .....


7:07 am    December 16, 2003
et juste pour ton information....le monde sait deja ce ke la famille royale a fait comme attrocite ... va chercher un livre ki s appelle "notre ami le roi" ...sorti en 1989 ou pour n en citer ke celui la c est le premier ke j avais lu a ce sujet....mais y en a plein d autres....Danielle miterand a lgtps parle de ca ds les annees 80 et 90...lmouhim desolee je voulais pas m emporter:))))

7:00 am    December 16, 2003
M6 is exactly the same kind and his father was worse. There will be a day when the the entire world discovers the atrocity of the royal family.

Lah yehdik ...en koi M6 est pire que castro...kadafi et Hassan 2????? t es hors sujet ....on parle d irak ici...pas de hassan 2 ki est mort by the way...koi tu veux k on le deterre et k on le juge???????????? we all know what he did...but it s gone now...we have to move on ....i know ppl who actually had to stay out of the country for years and years coz if they come back they will get killed....but even those ppl moved on they even forgave him....awww am sick of hearing that....tu sais koi si mohamed 6 est tellement mauvais porter plainte contre lui pour atteinte au droit de l homme...ou bien on ne sait faire ke parler???? sans preuves reels????!!!!come on give him a chance ....on s attends a ce k un pays connaisse prosperite et democracy comme par prends du tps tt ca mohamed 6 n a ete au pourvoir ke depuis 1999 (je pense)...c est une periode trop courte pour changer koike ce soit ds un pays ki a lgtp souffer du regne d un dictateur, et ki souffre tjs d ignorance et de pauvrete....

Desolee pour le off topic mais bon des trucs comme ca me revoltent....


4:58 am    December 16, 2003
Kadhafi, Castro... Aare you scared to start to from your own dictator?M6 is exactly the same kind and his father was worse. There will be a day when the the entire world discovers the atrocity of the royal family.

2:04 am    December 16, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
hello my friends what s going on did u hear the news saddam hussein was captured alive like a rat he looks like a dog what a great day for the humanity that swhat happens to all the dictators at the end he kept killing ,stealing ,lying ,deceiving ,slaughtering and he got what he deserves at the end to tell u the truth i m so glad and proud i hope all the arab dictators are shaking they know when bush is mad things can go down like that so i guess it s time to ask bush to take care of the other killers like gaddfi castro and the list goes on thank u so much bush i know u got the balls to do it playa

9:17 pm    December 15, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
wahanta katchouf a Adnane, gallek muslim Oumma lawah Muslim Oubba hadi...

ha7na radi nchoufou what your Bush is gonna do , other than put the Oil money in his Pocket.....,

Wasn`t it the Americans who told the Kurds to raise against Saddam and that they`ll help them, so when the poor kurds did it they left them to their destiny.., what woul you expect from a dictator when he has rebels like that? to sit and watch?? (not defending him) when was America when he was doing all that?? why didn`t they say any thing before? why they did give him all the power he had? why?why?why?

one answer is when you are doing what we are telling to do , you are with us, if you don`t do what we tell you to do, you are against us and against Israel, so you`ll be removed.....



9:13 pm    December 15, 2003
The muslim oumma is a myth,it dosen't exist. Muslims can't go a live in any muslim country without a visa. For exemple try to go to Saudia Arabia and tell that you're muslim and that you want to live there because you love the land of the prophet and see what happen.You'll probably get a death penalty or if you lucky you get deported.Islamic oumma,what a joke !!

8:58 pm    December 15, 2003
u are really funny man....:))) i just read ur post again ...u know the one where u actually justify what americans do:)))))
i am glad to see that they teach you good stuff in american schools a sidi:))))...they teach you that violenceand murder can be justified...what facts are you talking about ???? are u talking about the news you see on American TV????!!! oulahila zwina hadi... one thing don t believe all u watch on T.V....the media manipulates ppl ...

8:31 pm    December 15, 2003
dude...u are asking me to name one muslim country that is democratic...well you are right...i can t...but i am not claiming that they are just telling you guys(ppl who blame just one side) that americans are not that clean....lmouhim ...i really don t have time for that right now, have my finals, i ll answer in few days inshalah ...okay??...

8:17 pm    December 15, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
Aweddi what Muslim OUmma that you're talking about?! there is no Oumma. The only united Oumma there is left on earth now is the American Oumma, the European Oumma and the Jewish Oumma.

Muslim Oumma = logarithm ( 1 )


7:40 pm    December 15, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
it s a great day for the muslim oumma saddam was captured at the end thanks to bush and his boys , Saddam hussein was directly and indirectly behind the death of over a million persons he waged a war against iran for almost nine years without any results he invaded kuwait killing thousands of kuwaitis and raping their ladies what a shame from a muslim leader he gazed the kurds in the north killing them like insects i guess this is beyond comprehension in fact i wanna see him killed in front of all the irakis and what about the mass graves he is a mass murderer a thief a thug a cold killer he got what he deserves and i bet he deserves mor e than that it took 26 years for someone to say enough is enought and that was bush gread job bush we really appreciat ur sacrifice for the sake of peace who s next

6:32 pm    December 15, 2003
True,no one has the right to generalise,but I didn't make anything up.I'm merely stating some obvious facts.Ok can you name just one muslim country that is democratic with free election and etc..I bet you can't because it dosen't exist.If we go to africa we find at least 1 or 2 democratic country (exp South Africa,kenya ..).If we go to Latin America they're more than 3 democratic countries (exp Brazil,Argentina,and some others),in Asia also they're couple democratic countries (Japan,South Corea and even India). But in the muslim world they're none, zero,nada. Why is that?? Clearly something is wrong.These are facts not opinions,I didn't invented anything.You just can't deny these Facts.I'm sure you going to try to dodge the question again.I don't know if the teach you in moroccan schools that argument have to be supported by facts not just opinion.Facts are stronger than opinions.My mother think I'm handsome

6:29 pm    December 15, 2003

abdelilah message
Nothing to offer Allah ya weddi?

iwa w number two of the baath party that the US is looking for. Saddam has a lot of information to offer. Ghadi ychekkem gaa3 be shabou we kayn leflouss dyalou agogo lli bghawhum shab el dollaaar.


4:56 pm    December 15, 2003
u said:
Saddam is certainly negotiating a deal with Bush now in a way or another.

What makes u think that the U.S would be interested in negociating with sadam??? why would they?? he s got nothing to offer!!! ???????????????????


4:47 pm    December 15, 2003

abdelilah message
Rien du tout you have written the following message

Hey les gars, vous vous etes tous pris au piege ou quoi?
Croyez vous vraiment que c'etait le vrai Saddam, qu'il etait si bete pour ne pas se suicider avant d'etre captur?? il n'a pas trouve mieux que d'aller se cacher dans sa ville natale? hihihihi...
Ne pensez-vous pas qu'il s'est arrang? avec bush, pour lui donner un coup de pousse en cette periode d'elections?

Well, hiding in a place that people would think is not probable is a strategy followed by many people.
This idea of conspiracy is plausible and many people in the Arab world espoused it. The implicit message that nourishes it is the fact that Saddam will not let them capture him. As a matter of fact, the man is a coward that can sell his friends for anything. Now, what if the captured one is a double?
well, they took Tarik Aziz and he recognized him and now they are doing DNA tests (and science here is certain). The idea of an arrangement is not far-fetched but then the Americans would be afraid that it would backfire if Saddam (the real one) shows up and says the US lied to you. Saddam is certainly negotiating a deal with Bush now in a way or another.


2:55 pm    December 15, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
I also think Bush is gaining points with this new milestone.

By capturing Saddam, Irakis get a sense of closure and resistance may be shattered. Many Irakis still feared that as long as Saddam is in hideout, he might come back or disrupt their new system. Having captured Saddam and handing him to a tribunal relieves Irakis, and weakens any resistance that could have been loyal to Saddam and hopeful they might come back with him.

At any rate, Saddam's governing past is not rosey that's for sure. We know that the US uses this a lot but it is true. He was vicious, and this is God's way of getting rid of him. The US plan was vague, the whole world got confused, and the whole probably still is. But when are the Muslims going to get involved to fix their own messes? Somebody has to do it, and when they do, it's going to get worse before it gets better.

For those who say: who helped Saddam? who gave him weapons? who trained Bin Laden?.. common answer is: USA, well know something: if the USA put Saddam or Bin laden, helped them and all, they are capable of removing them. If you allow yourself to be manipulated by X, expect to be remanipulated by X.

One raiooster once mentioned a good Hadith:
"Ra7ima allahou 3abdan 3arifa qadrahou fasstaqam".


2:32 pm    December 15, 2003
you guys are really getting caught up in all the things that don't really matter like " have you seen the hole where he was" or even better " why did he surrender like a coward to the Americans without fighting" is there some sympathy towards this man who murdered and tortured his own people? is that how we feel about him now???
to answer other questions
i think that Bush is gaining some browny points for his re-election because the media is really pumpin' everything up. The media is very pro-Bush and the majority of the American people tend to listen to and encouraged by the media circus to make their decision. I personally think that the capture of saddam is irrelevent to this war, people are still dying in Irak to this day.

12:46 pm    December 15, 2003
rien du tout
Bien dit, faut arreter de generaliser...

12:29 pm    December 15, 2003
At least the US dosen't murder it's own citizens in cold blood

:)))) je suppose que t as raison ...c est vrai c est tellement plus pardonable de tuer les etrangers plutot que les sang froid ki plus est...puree!!! t as une goutte d humanite en toi ????!!! tu realise ce ke tu viens de balancer la....??? et entre ns on fait les compte de ceux ki ont ete tue par hassan 2 ( ou les rois marocain) et les president des etats unis ...ben crois moi les etats unis auront la medaille d melange pas les plumes et les pinceaux... et les arabes et les musulmans ne sont pas les pires , tu oublies les nazis, la chine, la coree, les pays africains... etc( sans oublier les states) pour l amour de dieu arreter de generaliser...


12:23 pm    December 15, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..

11:58 am    December 15, 2003
Speaking of crimes against humanity,I think arabs and musilms countries are the worst violators of human right on earth.Let's talk about how many people Sadam killed,and how many moroccans were killed by your beloved king Hassan II .As a matter of fact all arab leaders are mass murderers and criminals.How can u be proud of that?? At least the US dosen't murder it's own citizens in cold blood.

11:48 am    December 15, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
It will be interesting to read responses as you consider all People: Americans, Iraqis, Europeans, etc.

11:45 am    December 15, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
Read my words again, i said PROBABLY, this was the Case, i don`t want to explain to you what Probably means as a 12 year old kid knows it ;)
About the Hole yes I did see it, if you follow the news(obv you don`t) you should know that they allowed Journalists to see it......
Probably ( pay attention i said probably) they used some chemicals to put him asleep or paralize him so he can`t kill him self or resiste....., they sure want him alive.....

NB : Next time write under one name , don`t write as Anonynous AND MO....


11:41 am    December 15, 2003
rien du tout
Hey les gars, vous vous etes tous pris au piege ou quoi?
Croyez vous vraiment que c'etait le vrai Saddam, qu'il etait si bete pour ne pas se suicider avant d'etre captur?? il n'a pas trouve mieux que d'aller se cacher dans sa ville natale? hihihihi...
Ne pensez-vous pas qu'il s'est arrang? avec bush, pour lui donner un coup de pousse en cette periode d'elections?
Ne pensez vous pas etre des spectateurs ? la fois naifs et passifs en train de regarder un scenario pr?par? d'avance?
Moi, j'ai decide d'etteindre ma t?l?, et ma radio ...
Apres tout qu'est ce que ca nous rapporte de regarder ces infos?!! apart ce degout de se rendre compte ? quel point nous sommes des "incapables".
Reveillez-vous, c'est vraiment bete de se laisser prendre dans un tel jeu..

11:29 am    December 15, 2003
do you think this event will take over people's short memories and make them forget about why the US is in Irak in the first place.

u used the word "People" ....who are those answer this question we need to know who u meant by "People" ( Americans, Irakis, Arabs in general, ....etc)....
coz i think all those would respond differently to the capture of saddam...


10:17 am    December 15, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
Hey Folks! Ok, I think that the topic can avoid getting astray... Let me attempt to ask some questions to bring us back. Let's not get into the gossip-like discussion of how Saddam was captured. Fact is he is captured. Now direct your mind with me for a minute forward.

In many discussions in raioo or outside raioo certainly, the debate over reasons for going to war in Iraq have already been hashed extensively. People were and still are divided. What I'd like to ask is the following.

1. The capture of Saddam is not the main reason for going to war, do you think this event will take over people's short memories and make them forget about why the US is in Irak in the first place. Make them forget about the "claimed" Weapons of Mass Destructions.

2. Does the capturing of Saddam help this war in any way? If yes, in which way and who does it affect? If no, why and what are the implications?


9:46 am    December 15, 2003
What do you suggest I should do?
I think that I am doing something about it, I am gaining education and the growing as a person. I am trying to give the best representation of being an Arab by taking pride in it and SAYing NO to the clear injustice practiced by the U.S..
Dear Anonynous, things are done in appropriate times, as of now I may not have much an inpact, but at least I have a voice. I guess I'll use my "cheap talk" if that's what it takes. Do not take "the power of the word" for granted. Anyway! I wish could stand infront U.S. injustice around the world and stop their crimes against humanity.

9:43 am    December 15, 2003
Negociator You don't make any sense.You asking me if I saw the hole,no I didn't see it,did u?.Then you go on saying that Sadam was in american custody long time ago. So how do u know that,do u work for CIA? And of course Sadam's capture is going to help Bush in the upcoming election,that's no brainer,even a 12 year old kid can figure that out. So what's your point man?? Well I guess you have no point.Parler pour rien dire,like the french would say.

9:28 am    December 15, 2003
Here we are arguing about something useless in our daily life. Again, talking about US and universities,... Guys, move on, instead of talking this way, let s analyse facts and realities,... The truth is that Arab don't want to live their days, we want to wear Levi's, may be 501, wear Clavin Perfume, or Boss, having nice chevrolet,... or Ray glasses,... Where is the truth in all of this, having brothers and sisters dying, if it is not in the conotative sens it is in the denotative sens. So chocked to see Saddam's pic, are we fearing ourselves, or are we fearing the others,... In my prospective, we are afraid of loosing the confort, we want to live that short confort and not having any kind of love to our countries,... Some of us are studying here to get better life, look at this nobody wants to go back to Morocco, we enjoy the life and we don't care about there,... It is true that the situation there is awfull but we have to do so, we have to fight to make it better, not for us, because as it is will be hard to straight it up. Morocco needs us, needs its youth and we don't wait for others to clean it. Now, in few months we will be entering free-trade with US, are we ready, are we able to get benefits or again another colonization period under different name will take place.
The fact that we are living here during this period is giving us opportunity to know the reality of things,... we don't have to escape , we have to face the ...

9:25 am    December 15, 2003
Growingsoul,If the the USA is so bad,what are you doing about it?
I guess nothing ,talk is cheap.All what arabs and muslims can do is curse and complain about america,like a bunch of crying baby.You don't like it,do something about it or shut up.

8:28 am    December 15, 2003
Are you kidding me?!!!!!!

Ok! first of all, I wouldn't argue that the U.S. makes Arabs pay for school. The out-state tuition applies on every International student. in fact, I wouldn't argue any other matter concerning Their Policies in Their own country. It is their country, and they can impose whatever rules they see appropriate, no one is making us come here, the U.S.. we choose to do so.

Now let's talk about the real reason, and I am sure I would not be adding anything new.
- wasn't it the U.S. that backed saddam to get into power?
- Wasn't it the U.S. that backed most dictators, arabs and others, to get to power?
- Wasn't it the U.S. that provided the chemical weapons to Saddam?
- Wasn't it the U.S. that helped, trained Oussama Bin Laden?
- Isn't it the U.S. that Vetos EVERY U.N. resolution against Israel or in favor of Palestinian?



8:27 am    December 15, 2003
- Wasn't it the U.S. that constantly condemns Arab states while trashing Islam, at least indirectly (like allowing freedom of speech for general "boiken" or the call for crusade by Bush himself) ?
- Why didn't the U.S. stop, or at least say something to, Saddam back then when he comitted his crimes?
- Why did the U.S. start caring about the people only after having a conflit with Iraq about oil?
- How many pretexts were created by the U.S. to legimitize this war against Iraq? saving the peopole was never mentioned to the U.N.
- Why does the U.S. have problems only with Arab states, which happen to have a direct or indirect conflict with Israel, e.g., Syria?
- ..................etc.
Adnane, I certainly am not brainwashed or just believe what they tell me. Facts don't lie! According to what I outlined above, I don't think that I am pulling things outta my a**, excuse my Bushism.

man oh man!!! the list is sooo long and I need to go back to prepare for my finals.

What do you think ?


7:11 am    December 15, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
7areg let me respond to some of your points:

1. Someone has to pay. American kids also pay, maybe less in state colleges, but everyone pays. Also they're not going to let you come study and roll out red carpet for you, and pay for your school, rent etc just because you're a foreigner. Actually they will do all of that believe it or not if you apply for full scholarship and you get it based on your academic performance.

2. for green card and cheap labor you're talking about, most of these green carders will be also cheap labor in their countries if not worse.

3. I like to have a positive attitude and enjoy things wherever I am.



7:05 am    December 15, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
Did you see the Hole he was in ??
They called it a Spider Hole, he can`t fight back..., but i think that they had him already, they knew where he was, or probably they put him in that Hole, waiting for the elections to declare it , for the benefits of The Bush Administartion....

I agree with 7areg and Growingsoul,
The US isn`t doing the lottery and allowing people to their Universities for nothing.., if the Universities were free then yeah but they are not, those who come here with no education, they`ll be working hard in restaurants..etc, and getting paid nothing..., and still they pay taxes....

So the US is benefiting from this deal, of course those immigrants are benefiting from it too, but believe me if this wasn`t a good Deal for the uS they wouldn`t do it, just look at the Immigrants Registration program, why did they cancel it?
some Universities complained about the news rules for student Visa`s, cause they lost a lot of their annual students that were from the arab/muslim countries....


6:55 am    December 15, 2003
To Suddam,
wahwa wawawaaa awaaw awaaw,
awin awinn awin awin awin win awin awiiin,
Ghibt m3a ghroub achemss, hiya lyoum char9at fin nwarek ntta
Rehtti m3a ghrab ttyour ghiya lyoum ghanatt et finek halek ntta,
wasseltti fi you m rbi33 howa lyoum khaddar fiin zharek ntta, aa fnek zharek ntta...

11:59 pm    December 14, 2003
dear Adnane
I do not share the same opinion.
The US does not give a rat's ass about Arabs. for many abvious reasons
1-speaking about "letting arabs go to US universities" , it's not for free + they are making a profit from it . it is a 1.2 billion $ industry + they get to export their ideas and values ( good and bad ones ) since most of the international students will hold high positions in their native countries and therefore makes it easier to make puppets out of them

2-the Green Card lottery is to bring legal cheap labor force ( dish washers ...etc) @ least for a year or so + more tax payers .. and so on

3- do you really think the US loves arabs ??? ohhh please gimmi a break here
dear Adnane : if you are enjoying the life in the US and most of us are, and don't deny the benefits please do not forget how many people ( including our brothers and sisters) suffer and die in this world mainly because of the US.

Most of Americans ARE nice and peaceful but the ruling minority IS making a really bad impression

I am really disappointed ( but of course i respect ur opinion ) i think you should watch or read any of michael moore's videos/ books. or maybe I just didn't understand very well what u said


8:11 pm    December 14, 2003
I just can't believe Sadam give himsel up without a fight. If he died in the battle,some people may still have respect for him. But surrendering like coward to the american,that's not the honorable thing to do.Were's the mother os all the battle,I remember when they kicked him out of kuwit he declared victory.This guy has no shame.
Same thing with Bin Laden the islamist monkey ,he run away from the battle like a battle lke a woman He used to tell his recruits it's un-islamic to run away from the battle. what a joke ,theses so-called moujahidin ,they're fighting a losing battle

7:37 pm    December 14, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
Responding to: "...All arabs feel terrible that the U.S., born yesterday, profit oriented, and a country that has no respect to our history and doesn't want us to come back strong...Believe that..."

Don't generalize, I am not one of those Arabs you're talking about.

I don't think that the US doesn't want to see Arabs rebuilding and growing stronger. This is a thought that has brainwashed many Arabs and I would like to propose we change it, at least for those who are in their 20s and 30s. If the US doesn't want good things for us they wouldn't let our kids learn in their universities where they teach their own kids. They wouldn't let us work in their companies. They let us do all of that. They also give the option to become American, or to go back to our countries and contribute to it. They have the Green card lottery programme and many Arabs come here every year. Can you think of a single Arab country that has this kind of programme to encourage diversity????? I would expect at least Emirates (UAE) to start this programme since their economic prospects are growing.

For those who come to the US to work and send money back home, that also reflects that the US wants other countries to grow. Sure they get their stuff done, but it's a win-win situation. Our countries also export people abroad so they can send money back.


7:19 pm    December 14, 2003
Thanks to Saddam and Bush!!!

Now, we should take pride in our heritage, our ancestors, and believe that WE, the new generation and new force, brains and the muscles, are capable to build a new image of Arabs. Many of you will feel compeled to tell me that I am stuck in the past and that Now we're not worth a dime. I would shout until my lungs empty and my body tires and say that we have to reconciliate with our past and take pride in it. Don't be the Dj, who plays the same song over and over again every night.

Thank you Saddam and Bush for directing the attention of all arabs, in all Arab coutries, to their past and ethnicity. All arabs feel terrible that the U.S., born yesterday, profit oriented, and a country that has no respect to our history and doesn't want us to come back strong...Believe that.... I STRONGLY Believe or at least would like to blieve that we will be a succeful, inspiring nation again. The road is expected to not be paved and difficulties awaits us. yes!! Welcome to life, the same life Arabs once endured. This is how I feel about this whole mess or bliss of "Iraqi freedom".


4:52 pm    December 14, 2003

Yaz Lagouzi (Negotiator) message
Men Casa l oran, L Montreal....

No More Wars No More hatred ???
and you suggest that it is Gaddafi`s turn.. , so u think They`ll get Gaddafi with no resistance??? of course not, Americans can`t do a thing without Force.......

I was thinking, that PROBABLY the US had him captured for a while, but they waited until now to say they Captured him BECAUSE THE ELECTIONS ARE COMING !!???????


4:37 pm    December 14, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..

3:46 pm    December 14, 2003
You contradict yourself,you said you don't agree with what Sadam did ,and then you go on apologizing for him.You making a false analogy by comparing the Iraqi dictator to US prsident.For your information Sadam is a dictator not a president

a sidi ghir mat9ele9ch lna:))))...we can discuss things without telling each other that we lack education...and again you are right ...i don t have the right to talk in the name of irakis...and now again am gonna ask you a simple question did you go 2 irak and asked every single iraki what she/he thinks about that war???? i guess you didn t how dare u speak for them??!!!! lmouhim ...i didn t mean that sadam should still be the "President"...didn t mean that what he did to the kurds/irakis...etc was right.....but still do you think that "Ali", you know the kid that lost his arms , legs and both his parents and brothers and sisters, is gonna thank Bush for the rest of his life ??? do you think that those ppl who don t have medicine , no electricity and water are happy and think that this war was the right thing to do...i guess you can argue that freedomn has a price ..but seriously i think the price was way too high for the iraki ppl....
again don t get me wrong!!! i am not with sadam and am not with bush ...and i put both of them in the same basket coz they both do horrible things...


3:06 pm    December 14, 2003

abdelilah message
I know MB that the US should go by UN rules, but it is the wekaness of Arabs that gave the US its strength. Those who say now who gave the US the right to intervene were the same ones that were silent when he did not consult his people to do whatever he did.

Daba ana kanfekker gheer fhadouk mwaleen lmeslaha llee kanou ghadi yzewwjou bnathoum l Saddam heet mreffeh iwa daba shetti lli kaybkaa tabe3 leflouss kykammel fhala. Allah ynajjeena men tma3 we men lker3a.


2:38 pm    December 14, 2003
MB , I don't think you have the right to speak in the name of iraqis people.You contradict yourself,you said you don't agree with what Sadam did ,and then you go on apologizing for him.You making a false analogy by comparing the Iraqi dictator to US prsident.For your information Sadam is a dictator not a president.I think you need a little education,let's start with the basics: a president is usually elected by the people every 4 years in a free and transparent election. While dictators rules by force fo life.You're insulting the Iraqis people by calling a mass murderer a president.And before moroccans and others oppressed arabs start thinking about the Iraqis,I think you should first clean your own backyard . First things first,moroccans should free themselves first before thinking about the freeing Iraqis or the Palestineans . Just a matter of common sense, God damn it.

2:13 pm    December 14, 2003 This is an unrelated or foul message..
what a shame they got the thug at the end it s time for him to suffer he kept slaughtering his own for almost thirty years we can say it s the end no more saddam no more wars no more hatred i guess it s time for GADDAFI TO HAVE THE SAME FATE

1:12 pm    December 14, 2003

i agree with you ...sadam shouldn t be seen as a hero...BUT the real question is not who is next ...the question is who gave the u.s the right to decide who would be next?? why do they decide alone??? shouldn t the other countries be involved??? shouldn t they go by what the U.N says????? who are they to decide??!!!! giving them this right is just like a , i don t agree with sadam , and most of the dictators in "our" arab world...but seriously the world is just gonna go crazy if we leave it between the hand of ppl like Bush senior and junior...


1:02 pm    December 14, 2003
rien du tout
L'esprit trankkkkiiiiiiiiiiilllllll...
Il vient d'ou tout cet engagement !!

12:56 pm    December 14, 2003

abdelilah message
It is a good thing that Saddam is captured. Arabs should not be hiding behind this rhetoric of oh America. I am disgusted at the way he surrendered. I remember when we were kids at home we demonstrated at school against the Gulf war and Saddam was seen by many as a hero. Arab masses can easily be fooled.
The question for many dictators now is who is next?

12:40 pm    December 14, 2003

Let's hope that Iraq will recover quickly and become a star in the Arab world.


I think Saddam time was due, God sent Bush on him.

Ali, do u think that now they got rid of saddam everything is gonna get back to normal???!!! it s not gonna solve anything...ppl still don t have electricity and water in irak (9 months now)...ppl are still gonna fight to get americans out of their land...
Adnane....bush was sent to get rid of sadam???...well i don t agree with what sadam did ...but i don t agree with "uncle George" either...they never cared about how human rights were not respected in irak until they got in conflict with sadam over oil during the first Gulf war!!!! u also said that the U.S job is nearing to end....well i really hope not...they have to rebuild the country...and establish democracy...isnt it the reason they went there in the first place??!!!!!!!!
concerning sadam ..i felt bad when isaw him on TV this morning...i don t think they would like it over here if they show an american president the way they showed him ....ehhh oui ca va tjs etre la politike des deux poids et deux mesures....


12:17 pm    December 14, 2003
from my point of view, i think Sadam he should of killed himserlf, rather than been humiliated in front of the american and the rest of the world. all the arabs would prefer him to die as a soldier, than die as a coward arab!!!

12:06 pm    December 14, 2003
I am just wondering now how Suddam feels, after this long easy life, and only God knows how bloody it was, and after all the power he got, and all the misery he has seen during 9 months, hiding from the world, from Bush, and maybe even from himself, it must be the worst bitter feeling ever!...
Now nothing even a dignity as human being he does not have it :(

11:38 am    December 14, 2003
rien du tout
Dear Ali et Adnane,
Vous etes beaucoup plus optimistes que moi, et c'est tant mieux.
Mais, pensez-vous vraiment que le peuple irakien va s'en sortir comme ca? lui qui ne croit plus en rien? lui qui a pris gout ? la faiblesse et a la charite des americains? en tout cas moi, ca m'etonnerait bien.
Ceci dit, je leur souhaite tout le bien et j'espere "deseperement" que mes propos soient faux.
"La liberte se prend, et ne se donne pas"

11:36 am    December 14, 2003
Chicken Comes Home To Roast
which mean facing the consequence of one's ealier actions. Sadam violated the dignity of the Iraqis people, time to pay for his crimes.Were were the arab when Sadam was brutalizing his people? Now every arab claim to care about Iraqis people.In my opinion all the people who are depressed by the fall of Sadam are just a bunch of hypocrite.Because they never suffred under his brutal regime,arabs outside Iraq just love Sadam. I'm just wondering what they going to do now. Maybe they should hang themselves in shame, their beloved hero Sadam is no more. What happened to the "mother of all the battle" he promissed you? Well I think that just the usual arab boasting.

11:22 am    December 14, 2003
Dear rien du tout:

1. This is indeed good news for all those Iraqis who have suffered under the rule of Saddam Hussein.

2. Since there are 22 Arab nations, this means that there are 21 more dictators to capture.

3. I am 100% positive that the 21 remaining Arab dictators are imagining how their faith is going to be.

4. We have 22 Arab countries, almost 300 million Arabs, and not a single Arab country where you can criticize the rules and expect to stay alive.

5. Please remember, that a American/Western style of government is the best thing that can happen for the Arab nations.

6. Arab countries need a president to serve no more than 5 years. If the Arab president does not quit after 5 years, the Arabs should invite America to remove him/her by FORCE!

7. I hope that the Iraqis are smart enough to design a new government that is compatible with the 21st realities (more civil laws, and very little shariaa type of laws) in order to move Iraq to a better future.

8. Let's hope that Iraq will recover quickly and become a star in the Arab world.

Jazakomo Allaho Khairan, Wa ssalam


11:20 am    December 14, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
When I saw the image of Saddam after he was captured, looking tired, weak and surrendering, I immediately saw in that a symbol of the state of all Arab states: tired, weak and surrendering.

The hole he was hiding in with an exhaust and a fan translated in my mind into the the general status of Arab states: slow progress if any, and putting their people in the dark.

I think Saddam time was due, God sent Bush on him. The question now is for Iraqis to take themselves from here to a better Iraq. If they get trapped into civil wars and unstability then too bad for them I guess. They should seize this opportunity well and treat each other well.

I think the US job is nearing an end in Iraq. Many questions will be asked though what is the mission of US in Iraq after the capture of Saddam.


11:03 am    December 14, 2003
rien du tout
Depuis avoir vu les photos d'un certain "Saddam" que les americains presument avoir captur?, je suis vraiment degoutee...
Degoutee de voir ces irakiens qui manifestent leur joie, eux qui encouragaient saddam dans le "temps"...
Degoutee de voir les chef se "r?jouir" de l'arrestation de l'ombre d'une personne..
Degoutee de voir le sort de l'Irak, pays arabe qui ?tait le mieux classe avant la guerre...
Degoutee de voir ces gens qui imposent leur liberte..
Enfin, degoutee d'appartenir ? une nation de laches, une nation en dephasage avec le reste du monde et qui fait semblant de pouvoir encore survivre...
Il nous faut un nouveau Tarek Ibn Ziad, on est pseudo-mort sinon.


Adnane Ben.'s notes (341)
Fri 4/27 6-9 pm: Amazigh Spring Concert in NYC..
Algeria and Tunisia Are Trying To Breathe..
Another Wonderful Film from Algeria: Mascarades!..
Talk Back to Your Energy Core..
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The Maghrib that I love..
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My Squared Kufi: Family ..
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Ha Elkass 7loo: Hajja Hamdaouia ft. Hamid..
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Sidi Hbibi by Mano Negra - the unexpected :)..
Le Bachir ..
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Hadj Menouer: El Batoul !..
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NESS LA CITY: All?e Sans Retour! LOL..
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2006 !..
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Cheba Zohra & Mahadattes de Rilizane
Close Encounters of the Moroccan Kind!
Another attempt at writing. Will this language ever feel natural?
North Africa Journal
Moroccan Tattoos
From Los Angeles to Casablanca!
Amina Alaoui Lyrics
Dr. Hassan Al-Turabi
Vulgarity as revolution: Lemsakh we tsalguit
Les Oiseaux De Figuig!
ghir bessyas a moulay!
Moroccan Playing Cards Game ronda v1.0
A Call From Algeria to Help Suffering Little Boy Mounib!

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