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Adnane Ben.
Boston USA
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Homosexual Marriages in the US
12:00:00 AM Saturday Aug 2, 2003

What is your take on the debate question of whether to legalize homosexual marriages in the US or not? Due to the fact that culture and religion highly influence people's opinion on this issue, and that the US is highly diversed, the debate is hot in the US.

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6:24 am    April 12, 2008

junesun message

9:34 am    February 3, 2006

hudhud message
I think this is a skewed discussion for a number of reasons. First of all, the question is asking whether homosexual marriages should be legalized in the *US* (not Morocco). Here in the US there is a significant LGBT community at all levels of society, and legalizing such marriages would be more of a legal/political statement than anything else. It won't necessarily make the LGBT community grow or decline -- it is growing rapidly anyway (in california certainly). This country professes to be the land of the free, "free" here meaning you can do *whatever* you want as long as it's within the bounds of written law, and it is not causing harm to others ("harm" here having a very physical, tangible meaning, not spiritual). For example, if you want to walk around wearing a t-shirt that has lots of obscene language written all over it in bright colors, you can do that. Yeah, people can try to sue you, but they most likely will lose to the free speech/expression argument as many others have in the past. So if you're a homosexual and you and your partner decide to get a civil marriage, then by the norms and reasoning of the vast majority in this country, no one should have the right to come and tell you "no" since you are not physically harming anyone in body, property, or personal posessions. Another person or persons being offended, upset, or disgusted with your sexual orientation won't stand in a court of law for preventing such a marriage.

Second, remember that this is a society where people do not base the entire legal system on a divinely inspired moral code, and even attempting to do so would be a great taboo. So if you want to evaluate this question from a spiritual pov, you have to realize that such a perspective would not hold much ground in a legal debate here in the US.


9:01 pm    February 2, 2006
I don't know if it sounds cool for some of us to prone homosexuality, I guess it does. Once fact is for sure, there is a growing homsexual-moroccan community in the US, MA at least, from gossip to actual witnessing. Some will say that our "bains morts" are the best illustration of it and that we secretly encourage it, and some pretend that actually they are desperate and they cannot find their happinness elsewhere. I just find this part of a big teenage crisis.
I do thing that inside of everyone of us there is some of the opposite sex, that is to say that some part of me might be attracted to women and same thing for men. It is proven scientifically, and guys dont jump at me, cause this does not threaten your manhood in any way, its mother nature:)
my last say is, please dont be fools and think, God gave us a gift, our mind, but also our Quran.

6:33 am    May 4, 2004
hi all:
i was crusing around the net and i found these pages and you should chekc them out:



4:04 pm    May 3, 2004
nah i meant spycologists:) machi hadouke lli kaytkhalssou meziane. la la la spycologists houma hadouke tabba lli 7atta houma mesatyine:) anyway it's hard to write when you are tired and sleepy but i just had to write what i had in mind at that time and didn't care how i'm writting it. thansk for the heads up

2:22 pm    May 3, 2004

Adnane Ben. message
spychologists? :) that's the first time I hear this word, and it sounds cool. (I think you meant sociologists)

11:17 pm    May 2, 2004
I agree with you man. But first she has to determined if she calls her self muslim. than we can agrue this matter. For my personal point a view i think that being gay is Wrong why? because if GOD wanted to Creat Eve and Eve or Adam and Adam he would have done it, but again i'm speaking from my spitirual education. For many years spychologists have tried to understand this "phenomena" and they came up with tons of theories, ofcourse some of them are stronger than others but still theories. Only one thing that they all agree on is that it's all in the head of the person and the chemical balance of it.
i'm sure you like girls i didn't find one girl who said the oposition i mean you are the resean we are now in this Earth if it wasn't for you we would be now in Hevean sipping Hot tea and eating delicious dates:). But my Question to you. Do you like girls just because you didn't get along with the guys you dates or those guys didn't do much for you? do guy make you wanna throw up?. Don't get me wrong here but we judge everybody in this world everybody does it and we just lie and say " oh we are not here to judge you or nobody else" B.S that's in our natural and yes we should judge each other to see what we can change and what we can do to live in peace. no body lives alone we live among each other and yes we have to be judge, and if you say only god judges us yeah we are right but you forgot one thing GOD already gave his judgement to US and now we are living and comitting sins and whatnot and in the judgement day we gonna recieve our sentemce. It's like in big cases here with jury and a judge. the jury say if you are guilty or not and than there is another court day to discuss the pumishement or the sentence. GOD already told us what is going to happen to us if we do this or do that and now HE is seeing what we do and don't.
If you say your muslum do you practice? if you do than you should be familiar with sorah " i forgot the name" a sorah talking about " 9aoume loote" and that happened to them because they desobey GOD's order. anyway it's a long story and i wish you luck in this country.

11:00 pm    May 2, 2004
Yes man i read it but it's still not confirmed if this news are correct or not. It sux big time

2:54 pm    April 22, 2004
Check this out-breaking news-
Under \"Press Club, writers and MPs voice solidarity with defamed Minister (Fath Allah Olaoulo-Finance Minister), mentioned that The weekly \"Akhbar Al Ousboua\" (in Arabic) recently published an article under the title \"homosexuality and the Political class in Morocco,\" about the alleged homosexual behaviour of the Minister (Olaoulo).
The Minister of info. Condemns Invasion of Privacy regarding this media \"incident check this out\":
I believe that our media is heading towards Tabloid trend!!
Although we don\'t know how trustworthy is the resource of info, I am totally astonished that our \"Moroccan Greenspan\" turns to be gay!
I am not against them but it\'s just amazing to know that Olaoulo was in the closet like other political figures!!!
\"Allah Yaster wa alaajab hada\"

9:51 am    April 21, 2004

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
You don't have to be sorry... Your life if yours .
I was just trying to figure out to what extend does Islam, or the lack of it, shape your behavior, and especially your sexual orientation...
But it seems that religion has never been a serious issue for you, so I drop the topic .


9:42 pm    April 20, 2004
When i started dating girls, i knew that It was what i've been always looking for, i came out of the closet, I didn't think twice, cause that's what i wanted!!!
I'm very feminine, don't get me wrong, and i like that masculine looking girl, to make feel like a real woman!!!
For me men!!!! nahhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!I I can't!!!!! Sorry

11:35 pm    April 19, 2004

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
La Cassa,

-In the begining when you started "dating" girls... did you do it just out of curiosity, or was there a strong urge and need that forced you to get that intimate with them ?


9:40 pm    April 19, 2004

2:19 pm    April 14, 2004 This is an unrelated or foul message..
did your dada el haj bouchaib and his fag partner kadour adopt your sorry ass from benimellal
telling us you for fags marriage ,u fag, get the fuck out of here get real me a favor time to time take a peak at your green ugly ass passeport for a reality check where u r ass came from salam feed back ppl

12:16 pm    April 14, 2004

12:03 pm    April 2, 2004
all i have to say is : IT'S WRONG ......the problem is that you can see that in morocco too...u go to a party and you see two moroccans girls or guys holding hands and kissing (in morocco) well i guess that`s too much people need to wake up enough .....

5:20 pm    March 27, 2004
I am for gay mariages in the US. Where is freedom of religion. If someone doesn\'t wanna follow Islam, Christianity or Juadaism, it\'s his/her choice. After all, having sex before mariage and being gay is exactly the same sin in christianity. Why didn\'t day forbide havong sex?

9:41 am    March 27, 2004
let me see here.....were talking about gay's and lesbions...HOW INTERESZTING (sarcastic remark)...
*god put us here to make his creation (life) to move on not to have sex with the same sex!!!!!!!!...wallahi!! if ur gay or les dats a fuckin HARAM!!!!!!!...just the other day i saw to gurls holding hands and kissing.......guess what i said i said get a fuckin room..cause no1 in the right mind wanna see that dats just discusting...ouff..!!!..i can picture a muslim being gay or lez...thats just a discrase to what allah made...god please forgive the gay's out their!* WA SAFI!!!!


12:40 pm    March 26, 2004
Hello Adnan,

i was thinking if you can post a discussion about gays if it is ok or not to have gays in morocco which is our country especially in marakech. (a lot of gays in marakech).

What do you think? we can learn about our moroccan society especially in these days and see what other moroccan people think !!!



5:26 pm    March 23, 2004

i guess homosexual marriages in US or elsewhere should NOT be legal in the reason of god's creation, allah create men and women different to live different and to get married and live different as wife and husband. also, the homosexual should not be legal because human being must respect and appreciate as what they are and not what they feel like to do or to be. actually, you know what adnan? someday we need to discuss if it is ok or not to have gays in morocco which is our country especially in marakech. (a lot of gays in marakech).

what do you think? we can learn about our moroccan society especially in these days !!!


1:12 am    September 24, 2003
here is an article about the subject.More links later:

12:23 pm    September 23, 2003
no what???? i really don t get what u r talking about...:(

12:00 pm    September 23, 2003
[Quote]Il est ete aussi un grand Homos[/Quote]

Hehehehe ! bien dit !


9:49 am    September 23, 2003
hey Oasienne can u proove what u have mentioned " beaucoup de philosophes grecs etaient Homo"?
Est ce qui concernne "les grecs antiques l'homosexualit? ?tait plus noble que l'h?t?rosexualit?.." c est l'ideologie pre-islamique. Comme le cas de Abi Nawaas, le grand poete arabe. Il est ete aussi un grand Homos, mais comme j ai dit c du pre-Islamique.
une reponse tolerante n est c pas!!!

9:22 am    September 23, 2003
No Miss MB navre !! ce n etait pas notre but de disccussion. we have used what i call the deductive approach and applying it to a particular fact( homos). As we can aplly it to every aspect of life.

5:49 am    September 23, 2003
ewa a sidi je suis navree de t avoir ne sais pas koi rajouter...a part que le fait que tu dises"C CLAIR! tout est dans les principes de notre religion!!!" ferme la porte de la discussion ...que dire de plus, ...[quote]FRANCHEMENT JE SAVAIS PAS QU'IL EXISTE DES "MESULMANS" KI S'EN FOUS AUSSI FACILEMENT DE LEUR RELIGION! MEME LES JUIFS NE LE FONT PAS ( 7etta leur parlement semmawh Kennesett )[quote] ne m en fous pas de la religion, ne parlais meme pas de religion parlais d homosexualite....ahhh oui !!!! j ai pas trop aime le "MEME" ds ta derniere les juifs??? pkoi meme??? c est rabaisant comme terme...

5:02 am    September 23, 2003
good call!!!
agree with you ...mais la on est entrain de reduire tt une existence a un penchant sexuel...tu crois ke c est juste?

12:54 am    September 23, 2003
pour toi qui aime les grecs, beaucoup de philosophes grecs ?taient homo:)
D'ailleurs pour les grecs antiques l'homosexualit? ?tait plus noble que l'h?t?rosexualit?..
Sans rancune:)
une h?t?ro tol?rante.

12:47 am    September 23, 2003
Respect !!

11:26 pm    September 22, 2003
bon mon dernier mot: c ke m?me en regardant un grand criminel subir la peine capitale, vous aurez de la peine pour lui!! walakine c ce k'il m?rite!!!! c la meme situation, Dieu a fait un jugement pour ces gens, vous devez pas vous croire plus intelligent ke Dieu pour le changer! y a tjs une sagesse divine ke nous pouvons au moins discuter car c comme ?a!! sinon chacun de nous proposera ? Dieu les jugements pour tel et tel crime, chacun proposera un autre horaire pour le lever du solei et jsais pas koi d'autres!!!!
franchement on va jamais arriver ? vous convaincre puiske ( ? mon avis ) vous etes pass?s dans un autre environnement!!!! mon seul conseil: Ramadan ? la porte, essayez chaque jour de lire au moins qq vers?es coraniques et comprendre leur sens et leurs circonstances, au moins vous saurez pq la religion pour nous est une ligne rouge ? ne pas critiquer!!!
c la seule chose ke j'espere de votre part! et MERCI :)))

11:03 pm    September 22, 2003
entre lui et Dieu, c qd personne ne peut la prouver ( comme le cas des gens ki prennent de l'alcohool, si ils les prennent en cachette alors ?a regarde personne ) mais si ils avouent d'etre des homos, C CLAIR! tout est dans les principes de notre religion!!!
une autre chose! la lib?rt? d'?tre differents, c avoir d'autres qualit?s disons bonnes mais dans le cadre de la nature humaine!!
ana kanchouf la majorit? ki defende les homos sont les filles!!!!

8:54 pm    September 22, 2003
Je voudrais tout simplement ajouter a ce que tu viens dire, si tu me permet " l'existence precede l'essence" mais aussi l'essence determine l'existance". I think that we are not in the same boat; your existentialism agrees with that of Kierkegaard, who insisted that the highest good for the individual is to find his or her own unique vocation, far away of the moral standards. But
Mine belongs to Plato's philosophy. (moral choice involves an objective judgment of right and wrong). khok ba9i shad fi l falsafa dial lycee.

6:24 pm    September 22, 2003
miss, mr? homo ou hetero? ca n a aucune importance...l important c est ce ke je pense... et je rajouterais a ce ke j ai dis auparavant concernant la difference que"l existence precede l escence"( je sais vraiment plus comment ca s ecrit mais bon ...think u get it si tu te rapelle encore des cours de philo:)))


5:03 pm    September 22, 2003
[quote]As far you Miss Mb( ne me pose pas la qestion comment je sais ton sex).[/quote]
Bien si c'est pas le cas c?d si elle n'est pas du sexe feminin alors je dirais qu'il est un ...

4:56 pm    September 22, 2003
As far you Miss Mb( ne me pose pas la qestion comment je sais ton sex). I respect your point of view et aussi je l'admire. However, the homo, like the crayzy people, they have their own 'World' and they live in it as they regarde it. Have you ever seen a crayzy human sharing and mingeling other's people lives? And i bet that u will be wrong by answering " yes". ( when u come across a "crayzy" man don t u keep away from him thinking that he may be agressive?). same with Homos. they have their own world and they live in it as they have agreed upon, and sorry to say this, they don t need your support.

4:36 pm    September 22, 2003
As far as the first reply is concerned(Oasienne), you are completly misleaded and wrong. It is not Bush who came with the movement of manichaesim, which has appeared in the 3rd and 5th century. Second, in life there is either evil or good. If u believe in Philosophy as doctorine, then listen: Most philosophers agreed apon the circle drawn by a given society; who ever happend to violate the norms and customs of the given society he/she is to be cast away from that circle. Third I wonder if there is a third aspect rather than evil and good (as u stated). There is only 1 or 2. either... or... sorry but this is our human life.
respond .

2:32 pm    September 22, 2003
je ne vais pas me lancer ds un debat religieux...mais je vois la choses d une autre facon, ke tu pourrais appeller rationelle ou sais pas a toi de ce ke j ai voulu dire c est que ce serait pas humain de rejetter une personne juste parcek elle est differente, on a tous le droit de vivre notre vie pleinement...kand a ce ki va se passer kand on sera mort ( aller en enfer car on est homo...etc) c est entre eux et dieu....on a pas le droit de marginaliser qq1 a cause de sa je ne defends pas les homos je defends le droit a la difference.

1:18 am    September 22, 2003
this is just the manicheist thory G;W;Bush is applying:
1-againt us?
2-with us.?
An educated person should not think like that.
For those who think homos should be banned from our society , what do you propose?Lectures of coran every day to make the sin come out?
gentic manipulations to extract the homosexuality gene?Kill all the homos or put them in jail like in egypt?
Funny really to hear such intolerance...

10:46 pm    September 21, 2003
This message is for and only for M.B. (MA.US). I was up set when I read ur comment on (defending) the Homos. right. They are, in fact, minority and they must be treated accordingly. Allah ta3ala states that " wa ja3lnnakoum shou3ouban wa 9abaila li ta3arafou" , meanwhile, allah descends his wrath on 'Lout' tribe. I ask u a question. Which path u may take?
1. To mingle with Homos. ?
2. or to follow what Allah did to them?
If u r courages enough, reply!!!.

4:17 pm    September 20, 2003
Hada Makane Allah Ihdi el Jami3 wi Hdi oummat mou7amed ila tari9 el mousta9im !

11:01 am    September 20, 2003
got your point man!!!! lah ihedi ljami3 ousafi....

10:00 am    September 20, 2003
OFFTOPIC : desole Adnane

Grand ?v?nement! Cheb Khaled est ? Casablanca. Un concert haut en couleurs que vous propose 2M EN DIRECT ? partir de 21h00. L'interpr?te de Diddi et de N'ssi N'ssi nous gratifiera du meilleur de son r?pertoire

puisque j'ai pas de parabole, mais par contre une connectiona haut debit est ce que vous pouvez nous rendre juste pour ce soir 2M Live ?


9:55 am    September 20, 2003
Bien moi aussi j'ai pas dit de marjinaliser kelkin et je suis aussi contre mais je peux juste dire que dans notre societe c'est normal que cette minorit? soit marginaliser car les bases des traditions marocaines sont bas?s sur l'islam et si tu vois dans les 3o9oubates pour ceux qui boivent de l'alkhol ou bien avec ijma3 "les drogues" c'est 80 Jalda,mais pour Zina "la je ne dirais pas entre homo ou hetero" mais juste comme ca Zina c'est 100 Jalda pour ceux qui sont pas marier et Rajm jusqu'a la mort pour ceux qui le sont cad marier alors si tu analyses ca Alkhol < Zina c'est pour ca que c'est pas bien vu aussi ds notre societe

9:10 am    September 20, 2003
bonjour!!! j ai certes pas voulu mettre en doute le fait que c est 7ram ds la religion....ce ke j ai voulu dire c est qu il ne faut pas marginaliser les homos juste a cause de leur tu as peut etre raison c est maybe psychologike mais bon c est des etres humains comme tt le monde ....le 7ram n a rien a voir la y a plein de gens ki boivent ...etc et on leurs dis pas ah non c est 3ib et 7ram...c est entre eux et pensais juste k il faudrait pas qu on juge les homos...on est ds une societe ki marginalise trop les minorites et ca fait mal a voir et je suis sur que c est grave dur a vivre....

3:55 pm    September 19, 2003
Bon je veux juste signaler que etre un Homo c'est juste 3ib et 7chouma mais aussi 7ram ! faut bien lire le coran car l? y a un verset ou dieu soub7anah dit qu?il a cr?e l'etre en masculin et feminin pour ce marier et se produire et aussi qu'il envoyait el ghadab dialou sur 9awm Lo6
Lo6: "loht" mot de liwat et c'Est le lesbienne alors mon frere allah ijazik bikhir faut pas dire n?importe quoi, et pour etre aussi bien claire je suis contre ce phenomene allah ister el 3a9iba et je dis c'Est pas une maladie biologoque mais peut etre wallahou a3lam une maladie psychique et qu?on peut bien soigner par le coran si on le lit bien et si on suit sunat sidna mo7ammed salla lahou 3alayhi walam

9:31 pm    September 12, 2003
les gens parlent tjs des homos comme s ils etaient un specimen anormal...comme s ils etaient different de ns autres "gens normaux"....guys they are humans too....i think it is a biological thing ...they are what they are because they were born like this ...and plus je tire mon chapeau a tout ces gays ki vivent leurs difference sans se soucier de ce que pensent les gens....faut le faire...!!!! je suis sure k on en a plein au maroc ki cachent leurs homosexualite car c est 3ib et vivent miserable all their life faut accepter les difference et vivre avec....

7:03 pm    September 12, 2003

heheheh faggots hehehe even homer simpson hates homosexual ppl

allaaaaaaaah yester ya 3adnane if anyone of our kids becomes gay allah ye7fed ....

Jah Bless.


8:39 pm    September 5, 2003
thank you Adnane.
The right environments for me my not be suitable for others. (Not just sexuality)
1) I?m trying to minimize there exposure to a lot of trash TV and videos.
2) Teaching them what is acceptable behavior in a public and what is not.
3) Teaching them about my culture, and follow it my self to the best of aability.
4) Teaching them about my eligion.
You must be talking about biological factors. I?m still not convinced. It is society that created this behavior.

7:42 pm    September 5, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
havana, may God bless your kids and make you proud of them and vice versa. What is it that you consider a right 'environment' that you can create so that your kids can find their ways 'correctly' in sexuality? and have you identified factors out of your control that could interefere with this right 'environment'? if yes, what do you plan to minimize these factors?

6:31 pm    September 5, 2003
It will be a failure on part,
That?s means I didn?t create the right environments for them to be what I want them to be.
for the info I hope some one can remind us of the minister name that use to give Islamic lecturing every day on radio and TV during Ramadan
Any one?

6:10 pm    September 5, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
havana, dude, your recent message was out of the blue and entertaining I must say. And just to drill more on your thoughts, why would it be a failure on your part if one of your kids is a homosexual ?

5:16 pm    September 5, 2003
Just for your info. Do you know that the previous minister of Islamic affaire in morocco (I forget his name) was Gay. This is no Joke this is true. And Guess who put him there? The King him Self (Hassan II). So if you have friends in the high places should be no worries

4:58 pm    September 5, 2003
It will be a failure on my part and no one else to blame

4:02 pm    September 5, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
No offence meant...but what would be your reaction, if you happen to know in the futur, that one of your kids is gay ?

Can you garanty, that your kids will be 100%
and strictely heterosexual ?

Remember, life is full of surprises...


2:54 pm    September 5, 2003
& reply to 28) My first indentation was not to be engaged in this subject at all, this is the least thing that worries me at these moments. (Back burner)
I have 2 beautiful kids that I care so much about to make this and the native country better for them and for others, or at least I?ll try.
It will be a waist of time for me and my kids, to be engaged in such subject that will not benefit me or them in the short and the long run.
So I hope we can discuss other constructive matters that can advance our cause, and lighting our and might be next generation future.


7:24 am    September 5, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
Wallaho A3lam!

7:23 am    September 5, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
Ayur, saying that homosexuality is biological doesn't necessarilly make it OK to tolerate its consequences, come on! that's not what I am saying otherwise I should go finish my sleep as L3awd said. There are homosexuals who keep it to themselves and sexually behave. Others like many heterosexuals let their hormones and LUST break free and sleep left and right. So the issue is LUST, both on homosexuals and heterosexuals part.. for me that's the main issue and Islam has rules and laws for that. But to say that once you spot a homosexual who's a good person all over, successful, probably even sssater or ssatra rassou, then why punish him/her ? why kill him/her?

Again my point is the LUST, before even mentioning sexual orientation.


2:52 am    September 5, 2003
another thing, Our Prophet (PBUH ) said: "Koullou mawloudine youladou 3ala lfitra, fa abawahou youhawwidanihi, aw younassiranihi, aw youmajissanihi"

Alfitra = Human instinct
and so, beign a homo or a hetero is not a nature's deal!!!!!


2:43 am    September 5, 2003
Adnane, si on suppose que c biologique, et ils ont publi? dernierement k'ils ont d?couvert un g?ne c?r?brale de crime ke tous les grands bourreaux de l'histoire poss?dent!! alors automatiquement, on va l?gitimer les crimes, et par suite l?gitimer les violes, la p?dophilie, la zoophilie ( ceux ki ont des rapports sexuel avec les animaux) !! et on s'en fout de la loi car elle ne fait ke "contredire" la nature!!!!
j'?tais tjs au courant des spots scientifiques, et je n'ai jamais su k'il y a un rapport biologique avec l'homo. peut etre y a un effet de soci?t? mais pas de biologie ( Preuve "9awm Loth" ki sont tous des homos, et la preuve aussi des pays scandinaves ki interdisent ke les couples homos adoptent des enfants de crainte k'ils les rendent homo ? leur tour! )

Anonymous, i've read about Apes, but never heard that!!! so plz can u gimme the website or documents about that?!!


1:24 am    September 5, 2003
Studies were made on apes in a natural environment, and also on other animals which i can't remember for the moment.
So yes homosexuality exists in animal world.
The problem anyway does not lye there.Problem is you see/work live near an homosexual , what do you do?
1- go and kill him
2- go and try to convince that he/she is an error of mother nature
3- tell him that it is a disease and that she/he has to cure him/her self
3-convert him to islam
4-try to accpet this person as any human being.

Remembr that homosexuelas have always existed, even in muslim countries.Alexenader the great was gay, Turing also , michel angelo etc...


7:52 pm    September 4, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
havana, you seem to be strong about your belief that homosexuality is not a biological form. I am very interested in hearing your prrofs, reasoning, logic, or whatever you can enighten us with to make your opinion stronger. Again, I am really interested in hearing what you have to say because this subject is a complicated one as far as I am know.

3:03 pm    September 4, 2003
And where did you see that?
Only one studies was done, but in a Zoo, and you and I know these animals are not in the wild, males and females are separated from each other to reduce the tension among the males fighting over a mate .
So the environments are not normal. The same is happening in human penitentiary.
I just want to say this is human creation and not nature.

2:35 pm    September 4, 2003
amazingly enough yes Havana

1:15 pm    September 4, 2003
Where did you get this info ?biologically born gays ?is it the studies done by gays them selves?
Since you believe in this theory, then you must believe human origin is animal correct? Than have you heard or seen any Gay animals in the wild?

7:50 am    September 4, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
You are off track! Can't you see this discussion is about homosexuals in the US including those that could popup in muslim communities in the US? I'm not authorative in biology but it seems to me many homosexuals are the result of their biological nature. So according to you if your SON is naturally gay you go and kill HIM, then according to the laws of this country you're serving jail or execution in prison. Please read back what the subject is about before preaching everyone here.

6:02 am    September 4, 2003
There should not have to be any discussion on this subject. It is clear in qur'an and sunna that homosexuality is 7aram and those guilty are punished by death. How will Allah create people to be disobedient? Allah gives all of us choices. Ja7annam is real!!! You cannot change the kitaab. A zaani gets 100 darba and that is only sex with the opposite sex. Allah is the a3dl ! Allah knows better than us. I am a scientist and I have studied the genetics of this issue. Former homosexuals tell us that it is learned behavior. Allah would not misguide someone then punish that person. Allah is al-a3dl. It is not about good muslims or bad muslims, it is about what Allah says is halal and 7aram and believeing in that with all your heart. " Yaa ayu hal latheena aamanu ate3ollah wa ate3o rasool" A persons success is based on this. I was christian most of my life so I have the experience to know both sides. Islam is the ha9 ! With this issue, put your trust with Allah and his mesengers answer. If you do not have Quran and 7adith to justify your answer, then it is walou!!! Do not look for these people who make laws making halal 7aram and 7aram halal to be sha7eed for you on the 9iyama, they will run far away from you. The shaytan is their imaam and the shaytan only wants your destruction in this dunya wal aakhira.
May Allah guide us and give us strenght to stand for right and forbid the wrong and put us on the siratal musta9eem.....ameen.....assalamu aleykum

5:25 am    September 4, 2003
Bon, voil? ce que notre religion a dit concernant les homos ( de toutes fa?on v?rifiez sur les livres )
gayz: leur punition est la mort.
lesbians: les emprisonner dans leurs maisons jusqu'? leur "Tawba"!!
ana mazedte mene 3andi walou!! rah koullchi felktouba:)

1:20 am    September 4, 2003
Always juming to the subject 'Good muslims vs bad muslims' !!!!!!!!!!
How irritating is that!
Islma means peace , tolerance, trying to convince other by your acts,not by your words, trying to understand other human beings, that is what islam is about.
It is tyring in this community that when you are discussing a tabou subject, there is always the "good guy" figure jumping to claim that he undestood the real truth and all the other are just "koffar"...

1:17 am    September 4, 2003
i don't legitimate anything, but i am not the one who is going to hate someone because of its homosexuality.
I am only saiying that it is not a disease, that it has always existed, even in muslim communities, and well humans are still there...
A lot of great artists or inventors or even scienfics( Turing for exemple ) were homosexual.Does it mean that i am gonna reject their work.No i don't think so.

7:44 pm    September 3, 2003
I didn't read ur comments but I just want to say a thing....Homosexuality always existed since the beginning of humanity...religion tried to correct this "deviation" but failed 'cause nothing can change nature and homosexuality is a result of when nature goes wrong...just like genes mutation for example so instead of fighting it and rejecting it we should accept it and understand that's part of nature and how things can go wrong sometimes

4:33 am    September 3, 2003
Adnane, Lesbian = Se7a9iya in arabic
Oasienne, imagine tout le monde est homos, comment, ? ton avis, l'humanit? peut continuer? tu dis qu'ils sont des gens normaux, alors c nous, les h?t?ros, ki sont anormaux?!!!
je vois pas pq on l?gitime qq choses ki est d?ja inacceptable, surtout chez nous les mesulmans, on a l'exemple de "9awm Loth"!!!!
Taswallah, i totally agree with u, some are just muslim by name, llah yehdihoum

9:01 pm    September 2, 2003
I understand why Islam is being moved away from the so called muslim nations, because many are only muslim by name. Islam has been removed from the heart. I am a new muslim of 15 years. My wife is Moroccan and I have been many times there. There is no grey area for the understanding of homosexuality in Islam. It is clear in the Quran and sunna that it is haram. A punishment has been issued for it specifically from the lips of the prophet (saws) and it is execution of the violators. Any one who denies this rejects Allah and his messenger. I myself wish to be on the side of Allah and his messenger. Don't quote "innalaaha ghafuru ra7eem" as many immigrants quotes because Allah ta'ala also says "innalaaha saree3ul 7essab". This is the balance (meezan) of Allah. Allah does not decree wrong doing when he creates someone, so homosexuals are not born. Do not lie on Allah. Allah ta'ala says every child is born in a state of "fitra". Here in my country alcohol, pornography, gambling and pork are all halal. Does it make it right by Allah? Allah is the ultimate law maker and 7akeem .The type of thinking I see in the answers here show me that people believe that men are better judges than Allah (astaghferullah). If you believe this in your actions, words or heart, then I want to see how these judges will help you on the qiyaamah. a3utho billahi menhoom! Assalamu aleikum and may Allah guide us to the seraatal mustaqeem.......ameen

5:16 pm    September 2, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
After this paragraph please find some of my answers to your other questions. See this discussion is talking about homosexuals in the US who want to get the same rights as married heterosexuals, but the law doesn't offer them that right. That right would come with money savings. Because of that they complain that it costs them a lot of money to be homosexuals in this country. Should financial savings be enough of an argument for them to advocate their right to marry? The other hot point about this discussion is how CAN the religious and cultural diversity in the US deal with such a controvertial subject and still maintain its integrity. Which could probably lead to a future subject in section Social Matters: Can people preserve the integrity of their religion and culture in the US? -- Now can you tell me havana if this subject is not related to the culture and religion of Moroccans in the US?

Why are we blindly jumping on other people?s issues? -- I don't think we are jumping blindly on other people's issues. To describe better what we are doing, we are allowing Moroccans who have a stake in the US discuss intelligently homosexual marriages in the US. Many Moroccans consider the US their new home, they have a US citizenship, or have a green card and are planning to settle in the US. Therefore they are obliged to care about the place and the laws of the place especially since their sibblings will live in it. Otherwise they will probably never feel fit to live here, or they might gather in ghettos to enforce their own social laws but never figrue out the formula to co-exist with the rest of Americans. By 'co-exist' I mean tolerate laws in this country that do not necessarily match your religion and culture. Otherwise, you're made to live in your own environment or one that agrees with your beliefs.

How long has this issue been on the back burner in this country before it made it to the surface? -- good question I see you are contributing to the discussion, anyone with an answer? -- well don't you feel lucky Moroccans here are discussing this subject ahead of time! and before Morocco turns too liberal when these kinds of subjects could pop up at any time without advanced warning; and before Moroccans living in the US are faced with homosexuality in their communities.

Unless this subject has a direct interest to you, then I can understand. Is it? -- Judging from your tone and your previous opinions I will spare you a request to be more specific; you are asking if i am gay. well you could have just said it directly because your literal question is very broad. The answer to your insinuation is no I am not gay. Yet, yes I have a direct interest in this subject. It is interesting to me because of 2 things: its biological aspect and its puzzling aspect. The puzzle is that there hasn't been a straight answer to it, and it remains one of the most fascinating subjects that challenges an understanding of biology, social behaviour and religion. Most minds struggle to balance these 3 forces as you discuss this subject. Some minds let one or 2 forces dominate (religion and/or society), others let the biology force dominate and are driven by understanding the biology behind homosexuality, and so on. I am personnaly happy with being heterosexual, and I could probably never fully comprehend what is it that makes homosexuals so or become eventually. I am familiar with the feelings of love and passion towards the other sex, and if these same feelings exist between homosexuals then that's the only part I can understand. More than that, I find it intriguing to understand the simple phenomenon of why do heterosexuals look at homosexuals as taboo, and why do most religions paint homosexuality with red. Having said that, I do not advocate homosexuality but understanding why does it exist, what does it mean to me, how does it affect me, answering these questions should appease me. It doesn't matter where one gets the answers, the Quran, raioo discussions, yahoo discussoins, congress debates, Barlamane debates, middle east cafe shop, books, journals, etc; the more the source(s) the closer you are to developing a personal opinion as you finally bring in your own reasoning and values to play. If nothing makes sense I stick with the opinion of my God of course. Just like I try to understand why is it that we don't eat porc. I don't go around telling other people don't eat porc but it will appease me to finally understand the real reason(s) why.

2:02 pm    September 2, 2003
I?m amazed about these subjects. How relevant is the homosexuality I?m amazed about these subjects. How relevant is homosexuality to most Moroccans?
Have we talked about all the issues that concern Moroccans here in the states or elsewhere?
Why are we blindly jumping on other people?s issues? How long has this issue been on the back burner in this country before it made it to the surface?

Unless this subject has a direct interest to you, then I can understand. Is it?

1:03 am    August 28, 2003
disease? i don't think that you can call that a disease.Homosexual are normal people with different sexual orientation, that is all folks.They did not choose it, they are not crzy and they are not ill, and most of the time you don't distinguish them in everyday life, at least here inBelgium.
By the way for ADNANE, i have a book written by an anonymous and wich is 3 or 4 centuries old,dealing with sexuality in Islam countries by telling some small stories.C'est ?difiant: it is less tabou than you can imagine.

1:49 pm    August 16, 2003
The homosexuality is just a small part of our "modern" society diseases(I 'm not even talking about gay marriage).And there is no other way to treat it unless humanity finds its cape.Who are we ?What makes us different from other creatures ?Then what is our responsability on that planet?If our ancestors were gays,would we enjoying life?

3:32 pm    August 11, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
Correction of a typo:
..that deserve to be called out of the ordinary...

..that deserves not to be called out of the ordinary..


3:30 pm    August 11, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
I think "zamel" comes from the Arabic word "Zamil" which means companion, colleague, peer..etc So I'd say the darija word for female lesbian, to be consistent, would be "Zamila". The fact that there is no common word for it explains either how our culture doesn't even want to recognize such behaviour among women.. OR, and a BIG OR, our culture history recognizes lesbians or rather bisexual women to teh extent that it thinks it is a normal behaviour that deserve to be called out of the ordinary... anyone knows any history on sexuality of Arabs, Otomans, Muslims, in the past?

3:19 pm    August 11, 2003
3indi ghir tasa2ol bssit, 3adna fddarija kangolo "zamal" ya3ni "gay", walakin ashno howa lmo9abil dial "lesbian", walakom 3adima shokr

3:38 pm    August 10, 2003
yes there are ppl born like that but it's very very very rare and we called them in morocco "khounta"

12:59 pm    August 7, 2003
As you all know, many people are born with a vagina and a penis at the same time. The last islamist Fatwa allowed those people to change their sex to the one they 're most likely to be, which is determined by their behaviour and their hormonal functionality.
Don't tell me there is no " Ijtihad fi islam"

7:35 am    August 4, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
Here in Finland (Just like in Sweden) gays and lesbians are allowed to marry eachother, but they are not allowed to adopt children for some reason....
Now, can we imagine a muslim society were gay poeple should be allowed to marry eachother ? I think Not ! Because Islam, as opposed to other believes, is the only religion left where the devine doctrines are, in general, still lived by on daily basis.
Where as the "Christians" by large, don't know about the teachings of Jesus, or should I say, they don't even care about them...

the guy issue is very contraversial, I was surprised to read on the news paper about a gay forum taking place in Marackech, where Moroccan homosexuals would talk about the problems they face etc...

As far as I am concerned, and as long as a homosexual OR heterosexual (!) keeps his sexuality for himself and goes by the rules, I don't mind him sharing his room with a Gorilla ....
There are other seriouse issues to worry about...

BTW, , the actual president of Finland was a lawyer for a "gay right association", before she got into politics.


1:17 am    August 3, 2003
I live in holland, they have now something called Gay Pride where Gays and Lesbians go out on boats on the Canals play their music and Show off,
Here Gay marriages are legal "like many other things such as smoking cannabis, prostituttion and so"
the thing is: in everyday life you don't see those gay people, or at least you don't notice them.

here is the webstite of the parade.
give your comments.


8:23 pm    August 2, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
Most of us know that it shouldn't be tolerated, but when you are faced with it, how would you deal with it? Back home in Morocco, The Quran and Sunnah can take care of homosexuality issues in no time probably. The interesting thing is this country the US, where they do not rule by a specific religion. They resort to CS, common sense. I'd like to see how homosexuals will put their argument, and how opponents will argue back. It should be an interesting debate. We should also take part in this debate and try to use the wisdom by which our religion rules the issue of homosexuality. Understanding this wisdom helps us, Muslims, debate in this issue. We should not just tell a couple of verses from the Quran, or Ahadith, and say that we have taken care of the homosexuality marriage issue... it's not that easy, not that straightforward to argue it.

3:58 pm    August 2, 2003
A3oudou billah min shitane rajime

I meant IT SHOULDN'T be tolerated sorry


3:57 pm    August 2, 2003
Ya Rabbi salama

I think it should be allowed anywhere in the world.

it is a very dangerous change in human history,
we can't just tolerate anything just because a couple of guys felt to have sex with each other

come on guys what do u except from a generation raised by gays and lesbians ?

3alamte Assa3a


3:33 pm    August 2, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
In the US, homosexuals are given numerous rights at the federal and/or state level. But legalizing their marriages is still a pending "right". The US has proved it has in general a level of tolerance towards homosexuality, and that alone tells me that legalizing their marriage is something that can be tolerated also in the future. The American culture is able to adopt this new phenomenon as opposed to Morocco for example.

If I am asked what is the good this country will get out of homosexual marriages, I think it's 2: first, probablity to adopt babies and orphans will increase. But one could argue that more babies will end up in adoption centers because now there's more probability for them to get adopted. That encourages teens to get pregnant and dispose of their kids in adoption centers. Second, spread of STD might shrink with the couples committing to each other, but I believe this is arguable.

Other than that, America has opened its mind so much and it's interesting to see it face this challenge put forth by nature. I will be curious to see how this debate progresses both on raioo and DC.


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Itsy Bitsy knowledge..
The most misunderstood [and growing..] world religion, Islam..
Moroccan Christians..
Polygamy in USA..
Architecturing to joy!..
This Moorish cult in America..
The Magnificient King Vulture..
Al-Rashid and the Fart..
On the subject of Evil Eye..
Anecdote on Life and 3ibada..
Anecdote on Giving in Time of Need..
T-shirt design: L'Amoureux!..
Craig Thompson art..
The Real Origin of Smileys :)..
T-shirt design: Happy Sailor!..
T-shirt design: threadless in Kufi..
T-shirt design: Magic e-lamp..
My August '05 T-shirt Designs ..
Your Living Space..
The Raioo Story: 2. in the garden..
The Raioo Story: 1. intro..
Arabic Beat and Instrument Music Wanted!..
RA?NA RAI Legacy..
Algerian Chaabi..
Nour L'Koufi (Gharnati)..
Hidalgo in Morocco..
Le Secret d'Elissa Rhais..
Imam Shafii. Soni N'nafssa..
Feqqas (Moroccan Biscuiti)..
Casablanca Connect..
ZEBDA! Un Groupe Genial!..
Al Moutanabbi. Idha Ghamarta..
Imam Shafii. sa'fir tajid 3iwada..
Long Distance Honey ..
The Working Wife and Husband..
The Hammam Public Bath: Do you still go there?..
Hip Hop Classic Favorites!..
Down With Love..
Lord Of The Rings..
How To create a Moroccan remix of a video clip ? ..
Why we don't eat Porc?..
Do You Play Music?..
Hidoura: Your Moroccan Natural Carpet..
Khaddouj Slam-dunking From Marrakesh To New York..

Hmida Rass Lmida à L'Avare de Molière!
Moroccan City Names
Shining ability is a gift...
Halloween SPECIAL 2007: La Mort D'une Souri!
Cheikha Rimitti: 83 Years of Life...
Why do we pray ?
short ones
ABSOLUTE RAIOO Summer 2007 Rai vol.2
Cheba Zohra & Mahadattes de Rilizane
Close Encounters of the Moroccan Kind!
Another attempt at writing. Will this language ever feel natural?
North Africa Journal
Moroccan Tattoos
From Los Angeles to Casablanca!
Amina Alaoui Lyrics
Dr. Hassan Al-Turabi
Vulgarity as revolution: Lemsakh we tsalguit
Les Oiseaux De Figuig!
ghir bessyas a moulay!
Moroccan Playing Cards Game ronda v1.0
A Call From Algeria to Help Suffering Little Boy Mounib!

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