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Adnane Ben.
Boston USA
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To Misinterpret Religion
12:00:00 AM Sunday Nov 24, 2002

You see around you and you may realize how much people can be misusing religion, either intentionally or unintentionally, in order to satisfy their desires. I thought a discussion about the misuse of religion could shed some light into some overlooked basics. As you discuss, you may realize yourself are misusing religion. I hope this will be constructive.

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5:55 pm    December 5, 2002
hAPPY 3ID:)!

3:18 pm    December 10, 2002
Guys, i just received this, You may have seen it already. Quite amusing in an oh my god the most powerful man in the world is a half-wit moron from hell sort of a way...

Sung to the tune of "If You're Happy And You Know It Clap Your Hands"

If we cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq.
If the markets hurt your Mama, bomb Iraq.
If the terrorists are Saudi
And the bank takes back your Audi
And the TV shows are bawdy, bomb Iraq.

If the corporate scandals growin', bomb Iraq.
And your ties to them are showin', bomb Iraq.
If the smoking gun ain't smokin'
We don't care, and we're not jokin'.
That Saddam will soon be croakin', bomb Iraq.

Even if we have no allies, bomb Iraq.
>From the sand dunes to the valleys, bomb Iraq.
So to hell with the inspections;
Let's look tough for the elections,
Close your mind and take directions, bomb Iraq.

While the globe is slowly warming, bomb Iraq.
Yay! the clouds of war are storming, bomb Iraq.
If the ozone hole is growing,
Some things we prefer not knowing.
(Though our ignorance is showing), bomb Iraq.

So here's one for dear old daddy, bomb Iraq,
>From his favorite little laddy, bomb Iraq.
Saying no would look like treason.
It's the Hussein hunting season.
Even if we have no reason,
Bomb Iraq.


12:59 pm    December 5, 2002
3id laftor jana o jab lkhir m3ah 3id lfar7a wa lhana o kol cha3b bghah
mabrok 3idkom wa ara bari33 la7lawi mssimnat batbot baghrir o ....etc!!!

12:52 pm    December 5, 2002
ga3 al 3arab ma ka yetfkosh 3la shi.....
ma3leishhhhhhhhhh ya drari...wa 3ala aya 7ala mobarak al 3ied wa inshala neft7o saf7a gdeda

11:48 am    December 5, 2002
Al eid mubarak karim 3la kolshi. I think that it is normal that states are celebrating it today while others not. Part of it because of the size of USA. but remeber that everyone who is living in USA can celebrate it today, because if some can see the moon even in just one state then the whole country can celebrate. So both ways are ok. We, in MN are celebrating it today. Happy Eid to everyone again.

10:09 am    December 5, 2002
A chouf ahya. Souum ou skout. Ma chafouch al hilal. ana chaftou al hilal. 1 a zine tbarklah 3liha.

9:59 am    December 5, 2002
Mabrouk l3id 3la ljami3 today and tomorrow (Friday). L3id in Phoenix is tomorrow. Hope there is no misuse of 3id (hence, feast) this year (just to stay in the relate subject :)..).

PS: al7amdu, thank you brother for your kind words.


8:42 am    December 5, 2002
Thank you Sultan. I called the center a few minutes ago and was told to continue fasting.

8:39 am    December 5, 2002
snoopy (mad)

this is indeed pathetic


7:42 am    December 5, 2002
is today eid? mabrouk 3likom leid.
is it today or friday?

7:29 am    December 5, 2002
Brother Zolty i wish a happy eid
i myself have the same problem some of my friends are celebrating Today, but i will tomorrow
Allah (SW) said : ATMIMI AL-IDDA
AL Idda is 30 days , besides i heard that the moon sight wasn't confirmed to the islamic Hilal Association in NOrth America,
if you are fasting today ta9aballa Allah siyamakum, otherwise mabrook eidoukum

7:12 am    December 5, 2002

7:06 am    December 5, 2002
Hello everyone:
Does anyone know if Eid is onThursday or Friday in the Boston area? There seem to be two different groups of Muslims around here. Some of my friends are still fasting, where others aren't? Thank you and GOD Bless.

5:16 am    December 5, 2002
Salamoalaikom everyone, Mabrouk ?eidkom wakollo 3am wantom be5air

2:38 am    December 5, 2002
mobarak 3idkom si adnnane wa inshala ykoun 3id sa3ed 3la ga3 nas maroc

2:37 am    December 5, 2002
few random wishes and comments :))

1- 3id mabrouk liljami3 and hopfully people who participated to this forum will remember all good things said here. Only with determination we can improve ourselves and certainly our kids will be better than us.

2- Thanks Adnane for your comments on the "few random thoughts". i agree with you that anger is the ennemy numero uno of humankind. people who can control their anger are usually very pleasant and good people.

3- to Issami i say i fully agree with you that most of us lack selfconfidence (i felt that you were talking about me in the class room :))). it's very crucial to let kids express themselves and feel confident in doing it even if they could be wrong. we need to get rid of violence and repressive education that are ravaging our society.

4- Arabi is a wise man. thanks brother for the good advice about getting to know and be aware of ourselves.

5- Be always positive, tolerant, and keep your anger under control. Know yourself and learn from your own and others' mistakes.

6- at last but not the least, blind_kenshi plz control your anger and, after Xmas or l3id lekbir or whatever, don't go to afghanistan, stay where you are and discover (study) yourself :P.

salam salam

ps. Arabi^7ta^Nmout?? hadi hiya "be Proud" olla balak :)


10:38 pm    December 4, 2002
lui c est Ben laden il n aime pas George W Bush , il n aime pas aussi ce ke MOlay Omar n aime pas ,masi a part Alah on ne sait pas trop ce k il aime
Ben Laden:si si j aime bien the american airlines!!!
film:le fabuleux destin d ispice counasse

9:51 pm    December 4, 2002
I agree with Arabi^ that all what we need is selfconfidence, and our society neither encourages nor helps in that matter. The way our parents araise us need to be changed or atleast reveiwed. They do not let kids exprtess themselves as (amercans) they do in here. One can notify the same things at schools in Morocco. So how can one build this selfconfidense if you miss it from the early begining!!! So, I do think it's a good point to make here. We need selfconfidence and nothing else. I have such a big problem expressing myself in classes here, because I do lack selfconfidence obviousely as I am comming form Morocco, and I beleive I got that from our system In Morocco (at home and even in the street and at school). The way they araise us in Morocco is like we are not supposed to do mistakes, and you should just listen to people older than you and so and so.. I do not think religion says anything like that. infact, all what religion is that we should obey our parnets and older people (vey confusing). I do think that this latter concept is misused in the Arab and Muslim world. anyone agrees or disagrees with me?

9:51 pm    December 4, 2002
!!!!!!!!!!!EID ON FRIDAY!!!!!!!!!!

8:10 pm    December 4, 2002

2:28 pm    December 4, 2002
Since I have been away for quite a while, I missed out on many good discussions that I would have loved to be part of. I will try to talk in general so my statements have more of a ?dynamic? direction to cover all previously discussed subjects.

I stress again ? As I try to put words to my thoughts and contribute to this conversation, I feel a great deal of sadness that symbolizes my disappointment of mankind.
Nowadays, being Muslim is almost a threat to others (nonmuslim)-- this ideology or phobia was created by the government through the HYPED UP media.
My question is how did we (Muslims) reach this demeaning state?
Historically, we were always the most hospitable people, who would share the little we have with complete strangers. At a certain point of time we even happily and widely opened our doors and harbored some people, who were ?torture targets? for the Nazis.

I mean MY GOD what a destiny for a great nation such as ours!

Looking at the world from a high sight, we realize that greed and NOT religion is responsible for the atrocities and crimes committed in this world. By definition, religion is here to help guide, serve, and lift up our souls, yet greed is here to destroy, demolish, and deprave our souls. It is neither a hard equation to solve nor a hard case to prove. Greedy mankind is GUILTY.
The solution to the "misuse" of religion is unfortunately relatively reachable to prevailing over evil that is here and will use any pretext to justify its acts while religion is just a pretext.
Let us not blame it on religion anywhere in the world. God help us all.?


2:27 pm    December 4, 2002
- Awareness and Suggestion:
Since the age I can remember, Arabs (including Moroccans) always applied negative criticism on each other. Later that criticism was transformed into facts in our children minds. Now our children lack the confidence in doing anything great. Here is a frequently asked question: can moroccans manufacture their own weaponry (or even needles)?

Are we really aware of the fact that we are neither less smart nor smarter than anyone else in this world? The reality is we are not aware that we lack the confidence to be at the top of the world again. Also, be aware that the government is ONLY partially responsible for the state of our country, no one has magical power to change instantly.

I suggest we consciously ignore the ignorant and focus on building our country. I suggest before we criticize anyone, we should ask ourselves what is that we?ve done different yet helpful to our country. I suggest that we know that once we are PROUD of being Arabs (rich or poor) our lives (like the westerners?) will be as valuable. I suggest we encourage rather than ?criticize?(another word for ?put down?) each other while work hard to rebuild the image of a great Arab nation.

Special comment for ?blind kenshi?: I won?t lecture or waste my time on you because it is an enough punishment for your soul being ignorant.

Peace N Love


1:31 pm    December 4, 2002
Maandi Mangoul
Thanks Lhyia
I join evrybody and My best wishes for all of the occasion of El Eid.

1:03 pm    December 4, 2002
Mabrouk el eid for everybody!!
We have enough talikng ight and left and we don't know what we are talking about,... really true that we are doing what we are saying!!! this is the challenge of our being!!!!
take few minutes to think about this!!! first it seems unmenaninful but...
Happy holiday

10:26 am    December 4, 2002

Adnane Ben. message
Regarding the few random thoughts below:

1. Western lives are more precious in the eyes of their constitution. I wish the arabs were to replace their constitutions with that of the US as a base. If you ever wondered why are the western lives more precious, I believe it is because of the wealth generated by the economy. I truely believe that in a capitalist society, the value of a person takes a boomerang shape. The X axis being the value of the person, the Y axis being the wealth generated. As wealth increases exponentially, so does the value of the person but with smaller increments, at some point though there is too much wealth that the curve starts bending back decreasing the value of people. That is not yet reached in the west.. not yet.

3. True. Take Morocco, I don't see where you can find high quality academic programs for Political science, or government studies. How can a country raise people with government and politics accumen if they cannot have access to education in the field. The few who make it to politics are either hacks, learning politics from the streets, or technocrats.. who may not really have the proper personality and education to govern.

4. Al Qa3ida and co. people proud of their heritage and religion to the extent they misuse their anger in the first place.. before they end up misusing religion to motivate their people. It is all about anger... that red flame that heats up in your heart when you feel oppressed, frustrated, regretfull or depressed.. anger is aknoweldged universe-wise as number 1 enemy of mankind.. very hard to control phenomenon.. there is noone to blame.. not Al Qa3ida for what they do, not US for defending itself, not anyone.. remember this next time you feel anger inside yourself.. Prophet Mohammed warned us against anger.. and he suggested that we control it by any means otherwise the consequences will be BAD.

I don't have anyone to blame really, even if when I do something bad, I know that I misjudged or I acted fast, too late to blame myself, I just learn and be more carefull next time.

8:37 am    December 4, 2002
salam salam,

thanks Issami for your prompt answer. i believe in justice and fairness. the common sense should prevail on resistant dogmes.

few random thoughts:

1- major powers on this earth (USA, UK, Europeans) use the UN to maintain their hegemony on earth. the "double standard" game they play when it comes to Israel terrorism against Palestinians show the bad intention of those temporarly powerful countries. they don't seem have any good will to solve problems and consider all humain beings at equal levels. it's amazing how western lives are more precious than palestinian ones for example!!!

2- arab mass with reason feel that they are targeted by the descent of ex-crusaders and they think the latter are working together with arab dictatorship to keep them under control (in reality, it's more complicated than that. I personnaly think that arabs lack competent politicians that could deal with international affairs and that the west doesn't really care who is in power as long as that regime could cooperate with them in keeping a quiet society and a stable international market and economy...).

3- arabs are left behind for many reasons. the worse one is the fact that they are being governed by undemocratically elected and unpatriotic leaders who replaced the colonial governors and drove their countries almost to disaster.

4- alqa3ida appeared as a consequence of the behavior of the west and it is using islam to retaliate against what they call "alkoffar" using terror, exactly like christians and muslims did during crusade time... members of alqa3ida are not those "illiterate" people someone was increminating here, those alqa3ida members who are misusing religion are highly educated and "intelligent" people. if they did what they did it's because they believe that they are doing the right things to save muslim world from the devilish and double standard attitude of the west.. i guess most of those guys had hard time living in the west (racism, hate, job discrimination, prejudice, etc..).

don't get me wrong, i am no supporter of that kind of terror, i am for a more intelligent attitude, for example be competent, intelligent, and be proud of being a morocan and show those who are denigrating us what you are worth...


salam salam



8:35 am    December 4, 2002
a 3ibad lah staghfirou rabakoum ou hamdou lah la3oichar hadi takaou lah a nass rah hadchi likhadamin tdirou fih rahouoi men 3alamate sa3a mafakatouch fih koula oihad ou chnou bari idir a takoulah rahna rir 3ibad lah et en meme temps je souhaite que le bon dieu de vous montre le bon chemin rakoun bditou katkhourjou 3la le bon chemin lah yahdikoum .
lah ma3akoum jai pitie de vous. a la prochaine

7:31 am    December 4, 2002
wa blind kenshi ta hada wajhik ola gfakk!! sir lah yakhod fik l7a99o 3wachir hadi..

6:46 am    December 4, 2002
"America is just having a bad time!!! cuzthey number 1 in everything and some people just hate that ".blind kenshi.
no comments.
it's really funny how some people are ignorant

6:12 am    December 4, 2002
Blind kenshi, man i think you re talking out of your ass! Islam ain't going down as a matter of fact it is getting a lot stronger and new people are converting to it, that is people with sense ..As for you going to Afganistan, well brother i'd watch out if i were you, going there with that attitude about Islam and Muslims, you won't last a minute there!!!

9:26 pm    December 3, 2002
blind kenshi
for all u guyz out there that support those terrorists!!! how about u read about Youssef Ramzi u know the guy after teh fisr booming of the wtc on 1993. This dude was a devil he didn t care about religion .He s a smart fella i admit that he traveled all aroud the world to recruite terrorists even his business card says :Youssef Ramzi international terrorist!!!! he planned to blow up 12 planes at the same time but tahnk u god the fbi found out befor it was to late. so u try to tell me that this guy s a true muslim i don t think so !!! he don t vare about religion he s trying to get attention of the world and also be a part of the war between the east and the west .America is just having a bad time!!! cuzthey number 1 in everything and some people just hate that so what i m trying to say is that islam s going down hill and no one can save it!!! so take good acre of urself and ur family and watch out the enxt dayz are hidding a lot of things u won t even expect
well for me i m leaving to afghanistan after christmas yeah i m going to war operation Endurring Freedom and i m really proud of it!!! finally i ll get to see some real action !!!!!!!!!!!so wish me luck i ll be back next summer alive or in a box !!!
peace out my brotherz...

5:29 pm    December 3, 2002
Of course she has the right to ask for divorce if she is very keen to having kids. I do think the only raison that make sens to me for allowing polygamy is that at the prophet time (begining of Islam) Men died in war and the only way to solve the problem (women with no support especialy financial support) is to allow man to go ahead and mary more than one. That way you also avoid adultry in the society. But just to make things clear to everyone, having more than just one wife was there even before the Islam arrived especially among Jews. So actually the islam just tried to regulate it. Of course, noone can afford to have more than one GF nowadays:) so how about wife. I hope I made a point in here this time. Thanks 7amdu for enriching the forum, and making the point.

1:39 pm    December 3, 2002
Maandi Mangoul
Hey guys: I m back!! After few days of relaxation and sleeping days!!!::))) ach men Naasss!! I forgot the sens and the taste of speeling sinice moving to the US... I did work for the best royal company in Morocco... there I starte to feel and to learn how you can be very useful for your own country>>> how important was the role of the development project in developing the countryside that we have in high level downthere....
I agree with Lhyia, Al7mdou and everybody saying the change has to be done there to ameliorate and enhance the education and the social level!!! in order to understand our Prestigious religion: ALAH give it to us to protect us from those evils whoever they are and wherever they are...
Guys, have a wonderful day and Issami don't worry about the INS staff...

11:36 am    December 3, 2002
Salam salam,

Hi Issami:

Al7amdou wrote:
"if it happens that it's the man who is not fecond and his wife would like to have her own kids? could she divorce him or get another man who is fecond if he agrees to that!"

Issami answered:
"I say God did not talk about that case in the Qoran because, if the woman has more than one husband, there will be a risk of not knowing the real father!"

Issami, i am asking a very specific question here. you are answering a question i didn't even think of! i didn't ask you if a woman has right to mary 4 men if she could. i am replying to you when you said (previously in another message in this forum) that one of the raison men have the right to marry several women is that if his first wife is sterile, God gives him the rights to marry a fecond (second) women. Now, suppose that it's the man who is sterile (cannot have kids), does God give right to the wife to divorce her sterile husband and marry a feond man!

misuse of religion is a tricky business as a vicious person could always argue for or against a case while using different ayat from the Koran!!

that was just a clarification. Issam what is your answer?

salam N l7ob :))))
(well...that's peace N love if you have forgotten the words :)



11:17 am    December 3, 2002
i disagree with Arabi when he said that ou governemnt doesn't "brainwash" its people and also that poverty is not to be blamed on our government.

Moroccans are not only brainwashed they are completely brain-emptied because they have no choice but to live a laisser- aller from those who are supposed to lead the country towards prosperity.

most of our "leaders" are not patriotic and think only in filling their pocket with the money coming the country's wealth.

Education in Morocco is certainly free but how many people are actually educated to a higher levels, to a level which they could be able to participate with their competence in helping the country to take off? very few and even those "educated" ones don't find a job!!!! it's as if our country is already self sufficient in doctors, technocrates and competent people!!!

and about our late leader, king Hassan II (allah ira7mou ila dar shi bash itar7am) if he did anything good to the country it was the fact that he "peacified Morocco" as a colonialist would say!!: he kept Moroccans under his grip and did what he wants with the country with the help of his ruthless makhzen. Some say that he kept islamism far from the country. I would say that was just a side effect of his ruthless regime.

i hope that our young king will succeed in repairing the damge and help puting the country on its over due tracks....

salam salam


10:54 am    December 3, 2002
i can see the point of Blind Kenshi and i agree with Lhyia that change and reforms should start from home.

indeed those al9a3ida guys are hijaking a whole religion and with the help of other western fanatics from other religions who are using their almighty media to amplify hatred feeling against arabs and muslims, they are doing a lot of harm to normal muslims who are living peacefully their life all over the world.

using terrorism to fight injustice is just creating more injustice against innocent people.

Peaceful means should be used to achieve noble causes and one should start from home and respect oher peoples right to live and be different.

Awarness of people should be devolped back home (in Morocco and in all arab countries that are still under dictatorship) so our puppet government could feel pressure coming up and start serving their people instead of listening to america's directives.

Only awarness of people's rights will push governments to work to stop injustice being done by those irresponsible powerful governments who don't even respect their own peoples' opinion (pools in the usa and the uk for example show that the majority is against attacking Iraq).

salam salam


9:25 am    December 3, 2002
Nice talk!!! No wise thinking, very powerfull and very pushed by the social and environment pressure... Hey Blind Kenshi,... act with the right attitude, ...I completely agrre with you saying that it s not the Islam that says to kill innoncent people... for me if there is an action to be taken it has to get started with our own countries: where is the Islam in all desastres occuring in our countries!!!
talk to you later

3:50 am    December 3, 2002
blind kenshi
AlQuaeda those bastards they made everything hard now who the hell they think they are ?!they re hiding behind the religion saying that s their holy war. I m Muslim and I know for sure that s not what god said in the Coram. God did not say kill innocent people children and women still the holy war ended with the profit Mohamed .oussama ben laden that devil does not even have the guts to kill !!! Oh he s the brain what kind of brain telling people that if they kill Americans they will go straight to heaven what kind of religion is this ?!?I m ashamed really he gave a bad idea about Muslims all around the world . Now people look at us like some kind of criminals killers .it s unbelievable I hate those kind of people .they choose terrorism as their weapon to change the world sorry guys but that s not the right way .god gave us the choice of what we think is right and suitable for us .you don t have the power to make me change my mind !!!!

7:34 pm    December 2, 2002
guys: Few words to think about the actual situation:
- Social categories: 63% rural population: No water, No energy!
- Education: 57%Illeteracy
- Unemployment: 26% of labor
- Resources: 1st reserve of Phosphate( 3% Uranium), 3500 km of costal length, 1.5 Million irrigated hectares
- Politics: I don't care that much,...very peaceful people
- .... More than that, tell me which country has all these characteristics and having 150 USD 'SMIG"
If it s not jealousie, how we will act to overpass those shamed numbers!!!!



1:44 pm    December 2, 2002
Si Arabi.. thanks for beeing nice this time:) I recongnize that Hassouna (allah yra7mou) as we used to call him back in Morocco did a lot of nice things to the country, but we wish he did more, especially to the education system (I am talking about countryside, as in the cities there is no problems). La7ya was right in all his examples, I knew what he was talking about. Amrani has no rights to detain big shares of Phosphate of Morocco, cuz it belongs to all the country. It is only In morocco where you see individuals owning things that should be shared amoung the whole country. Why is that? of course we come back to illeteracy, none knows his rights, none went to school and so and so. I agree with Arabi that the actual king is doing a better job and things are getting better and better. Let's keep this hope.

1:29 pm    December 2, 2002
Lhyia, It is clear that you have a great deal of jalousie for your country, which is exceptional. At the same time, don?t let that jalousie blind you and drive you to unsupported assumptions.
Now, I am sure that there is a lot of corruption, which results in deteriorating the poor in Morocco. But we couldn?t accuse random people of such horrific acts just because they live large. The two examples you gave about our former king (Lah I Re7mou) and l3amrani family need to be revised or supported with well-defined documents. You have presented no PROOF of which these people IMMEDIATELY caused poverty in Morocco. What I am trying to say, we can?t just blame people because they?re rich (as you did in your examples).
Lastly, Morocco was even poorer at many levels years back, yet now is progressively getting ?better?. It is easy to say that we want the poor to be sheltered and fed, but I also believe that no one has magical powers to make that happen as of tomorrow. Besides tell me one country in the world where every is just beautiful!!! Life is not fair and is the same everywhere in the world; the only difference is what you are willing to trade-off.

Corruption is an issue that needs to be dealt from the root, and more importantly, in a civilized fashion.

Grandpa always told me ?always ask yourself what you?ve done for your country, and NOT what your country has done for you?.
I am telling you the same saying Lhyia.

Peace N love


10:40 am    December 2, 2002
I m so sorry to hear all that staff about Moroccans!!! did we live in the same bled, did we share the same culture/ did we breath the sam air and,... and... and... why was and there is all this differnce between us, moroccans,... you're both right guys: rabai and Issami,... yeah, I foresee the social and the wealthy categories in Morocco: it s very hard to believe that we have those paradoxal situations: it s true Morocco is one of the richest country in the Africa but is the poorest one two!! Ah you will say stop saying this,... it s true and it s too bad hearing that,.. I m not coming from a rich family nor a poor one,... my experience among the all knids and types of the moroccan family provides me the tool to judge , yes to judge our situation: :: ...
Anyway, Conclusion: Morocco is very poor country in term of education, principles, love of the country : patriotism, building: build and perform to country, very rich with the corruption, exporting and stealing the resources, boss and confort acting, dreaming to be rich and wealthy even on the others right,.... Issami was right in mentionning the example of the hssan 2 account,... I will add an other example: karim Alamrani's children took the airplane once a month between US and Morocco and once a week between France and Morocco for the week end!!! how shame and having not far from Casa( terik mediouna) and from rabat(in the heart of the capitale city: kamra ) people looking for a piece of bread to eat!!!!
more things to explain and to discuss with the actual governemt there!!!!

7:43 am    December 2, 2002
You right in some points, but I do think that you Really ignore a lot about Morocco. I do think that you grow up in a big city and never had the chance to go to see the countryside. I have been in area that you will never know that exist in Morocco (Guercif, 7ad kurt, ben khlil, lakbab, merzouga...) beleive me man, there is not schools there, no hospitals ... so please do not say that the Moroccan regime did good things, you are totaly wrong. I know that in the cities almsot everyone knows how to read and write just like me and you, but more than 60 % of the population In morocco lives in the farming areas. also, the government had never enforced parents to send their kids to school unlike the rest of the world. I do strongly beleive that The Moroccan government wanted people to be illeterate so they can practice dictatorship on them. So what did the religion said about studies? The forst thing God wants people to do Is to study right?? former king Hassan 2 had more than 20 Billion $ in his accounts why he did not build schools in countrysides? man there is plenty of examples and please do not try to hide the truth. Matghattiche ashams b 3in al ghorbal plz.
Good luck

11:52 pm    December 1, 2002
Brother ISSAMI,
I have to say with all do respect that your arguments are not very persuasive. When you blame the government for the analphabetism of a whole population, you project to us that you don?t do your homework very well nor think thoroughly about the issue before debating it, sorry if I am too blunt. I mean isn?t education free in Morocco when anywhere else it costs? Besides, we all know the history of why Arabs, in general, are ?educationally? a little behind. I am not going to lecture you about the background of our great nation (Arab that is) falling apart. Our government DOES NOT try to brainwash its own people unlike other sophisticated countries, which claim being free and want the world free!!!!(You live it and see it)
Satellite dish is certainly a circular window, which opens on a broader world than the one in Morocco. That ?dish? is dream come true for all of us who possess an explorative soul, we might find some draw backs to its use yet always negligible in comparison to its benefits (Be positive).
People (Girls you mentioned) who loose themselves in other cultures will definitely, some day, ?mature? to realize that being Arabic is a real gift and so is any other race. In case they don?t ?mature?, oh well!! I only hope that doing so made them happy in life?
Anyway, ISSAMI we simply can?t judge anybody even if he/she speaks French because it elevates his/her ego amongst friends.
Lastly, let us stay on the positive side of things. That is to give people the benefit of the doubt yet be vigilant of our surrounding.

Peace N Love


7:01 pm    December 1, 2002
Ya9oulou al matale al maghribi ... Koulla chate, kat3elle9 mene kra3ha ... :) thellaw ...

1:22 pm    December 1, 2002
I have no clue for your case, you are not anymore student?? to me you need to register for school. Almost Everyone who does not have Citizenship need to go to the INS office for fingerprint and interview before 01/10/03. Good luck. for the qote from the Quran that you mentionned : wa man yabtaghi ghayra al ISLAMI dinan fa lan you9bala minhou" Good said Islam which is the religion Of Ibrahaim al khaleel (include Christianity, Jew and Islam of Mohammed). best of luck to you all.

5:25 am    December 1, 2002
hey guys " wa man yabtaghi ghayra al ISLAMI dinan fa lan you9bala minhou " aw kan 9ala ta3ala
al mouhim c'est koi hadak al bassamat thing fi ins ??? je suis un etudiant off status
que dois je faire ?? y'a qlq'un qui connais une nana pour les papiers wela une autre solution ??
be7al la 3atyina visa lil paradis had al miricane

10:34 pm    November 30, 2002
You got some of my points, But I think that iSLAM GAVE TO THE WOMEN MUCH MORE THAN CHRISTIANITY AND JUDAISM. I do have a very intersting paper that compares woemn rights in the 3 religions that I may share with you later. But You was very wrong when you said that we can not change ones culture easily. Morocco is a very good example, we have a strong influence of the French culture, very very strong influence. all the girls that I knew feel proud when they are talking french back home and even here in MN:) The parabole in Morocco also did a very bad job. this is especially true and correct within illeterate population that digest everything that they see on TV. I am ok with you that this illeterate people are very friendly and nice, and I am not blaming them at all, But I do blame the Moroccan regime who did create them intensionly! They wanted people to be illeterate so they can influence them and practice dictatroship on them. My mum is one of the illeterate people and I do like her a lot of course, so please do not misunderstand me. Good s7our everybody

9:51 pm    November 30, 2002
ISSAMI, what you wrote below may make perfect sense to you and others, but I partially agree with some things you?ve stressed. Now, you cannot blame it all on illiterate people either. The reason being that an illiterate person doesn?t necessarily mean an easy target to confusion and bad influence (we?ll get back to that later). Importantly, we can NEVER change anybody?s culture because it has nothing to do with neither religion nor education. Islam always respected other people?s culture and never tried to change it in the sake of religion.

Concerning the women issue in Islam, I strongly agree with my human mind that women should have more rights than what?s been given to them. God has set some rules that we have no say over, but also God left us the choice, which is a power, to change the things around as necessary. For example, if a man thinks that marring four women is not fair, then he simply shouldn?t do it. If a man thinks that a woman should split the heritage with him, then he should give her the difference and so on. I hope you get my point.

Again, religion is here only to serve us and help us coexist. Let us not destroy the beautiful message religion brought to us.


9:50 pm    November 30, 2002
Going back to literate people.
For example, when you say that morocco has a more than 50% that can?t read nor write, those people (mostly poor) are the friendliest ones you can find, and they are internationally known for their hospitality. All of the sudden, these literate people are a menace to us! Yet I still understand where you?re coming from ISSAMI. Now, George W. Bush is a ?literate? (the double quotes are justifiable) person yet a greedy one as you must know. He, Bush Junior, brings more terror to the whole world than anyone else. I again hope that you get my point.

I also suggest that you carefully read what I wrote previously about Greed vs Religion.

Peace N Love


6:27 pm    November 30, 2002
The two examples you gave antr are very accurate, but those behavior are inherited from the Jewish culture not form the Islam. even after the introduction of Islam, some arab tribes kept their culture (which is against Islam, descrimination of women). you knwo that till 1960s women were not accounted in population sensus in israel. thanks Allah alot, women are equal to men in islam. But still I keep my opinion that change will never come within us just like that. Change will comme when all poeple will be able to read and understand, make good decison share the power and so on. In Morocco we are still fare behind that (>50% of illeteracy). This Illeteracy is responsible for dictatorship and otehr bad things, the day people will be able to know their rights and understand the Quran and other things then we can see the change. I need to take care of my Tagine guys, bonne apetit a tt le monde.

5:48 pm    November 30, 2002

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message

That?s right, the rules of the game are corrupt from day number
one !

It is unfortunate and a sad fact,
that poverety promotes despair, and despair promotes radicalism.
(+dictatorship) there is a clear connection there !

If you want to cure a global
problem, cure it from it?s origine.
otherways, all what you would be doing is putting colorful lamps
to a tree wich is rotten from it?s roots.
But, I am still hopeful that a
positive personal change from withing can change things outside...

But that is not the head topic, here...
here are few examples of misuse of religion, or pseudo-religouse

-the Moroccan quote "Le3sa KharJa men Jenna, li kalha yet-henna"
clearely advocates physical punishement of the kids. an ignorant would think is it said in the Quran.

the idea od honor killing of one?s
own sister or daughter, wich fortunatly doesn?t exist in Morocco,
but does exist in Jordania, Yemen and Turkey.
and finally, women?s circumcision
wich practiced in Somalia and certain corners of Egypt...


4:09 pm    November 30, 2002
The world problems would have been here, even if Islam wouldn?t have existed.

2:09 pm    November 30, 2002

guys you really make me laugh. Are you living in another planet or what. The majority of problems in the world lately have muslims involved to some extent. Therefore, can't you agree that this religion, used or misused, is sowing seeds of intolerance, violence and hate.
I would have really appreciated to hear at least one respected scholar among it's peers to step up and ask what the hell happende to us? how did we get to this situation? what should we do to be seen again as a respectful civilization.
Please stop blaming the media and victimizing the muslims. We are among us and know what's happening in our country. As long the change does not come from within and as long as we don'thave the will to change the islam rhetoric, I'm afraid my friend we will be caught in this status quo forever.



1:05 pm    November 30, 2002
I am not blaming Islam for the mess, and very far from even thinking about that. But, I am saying that Islamic countries have the highest rate of Illeteracy, povrety, lack of culture as a result of the globalization of the world. All these things make it easy for a religious shock to take place, and people like Benladen can take advantage from this situation in the Islamic world and manipulate people easily. There is no such a democratic regime in the whole islamic world right now (except for malysia), so I am not blaming the Quran but I am balming ourselves and wondering when this will stop!

3:37 am    November 30, 2002

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
Issami wrote : "These people (illeterate) in Islamic
countries they beleive everyone who is not muslim is kafeer,
give me a break, that's a fiasco, and that's the driving force of
all evil things that are happening right now in the world. "

-Don?t you think that you are a little bit OVER exagerating ?
You make it sound as if it was about who is Kafir, who is Muslim and who
is Zaratustrian...Those are old and vague "quarelles"
that?s the type of music the media keepd playing these days,
making it as if Islam is the root of all this mess...
where as the fact is that it is NOT.
The evil you "see" right "now" has always existed... probably
you realised it just after what followed september 11...
It causes are aconomic and political.

Let me give you some figures, so that you would see the shape
of evil :
When you have a country who?s debts get multiplied 2-3 times
overnight (!) after taking a loan from the IMF .
When you have the 35B$ loan borrowed to the 3rd world
countries, expected to return 250B$ to the IMF (G7).
How shouldn?t get surprised if things get messy
(for us in the west!) because they have always been messy for
the rest...!

Actually, I did like it, when Argentina did show the middle finger to the IMF
lately...they simply said, we cann?t pay the loan, we don?t
have money!! hehehe
The gap between the poor and rich countries is already
wide to a sick and frustrating level.
You have countries who will keep fighting to pay back the interest
rate alone, for ever (!!) If nothing is done about the pervert way
the corporate world is running the world economy.
No wonder that, 5 out of 6 billion poeple on this planete, are
living in poverety.
And as long as nothing is done about such a situation,
the world peace will remain fragile...assuming that there has
ever been any peace...

The bottom line :
My point is thal, Islam doesn?t have much to do what you see
right now, despite the empty Brouhaha of the media...
Things are much deeper than that !
If you recheck what I said above, you will see that Islam is
inocent from all misery you hear about or see around...



10:49 pm    November 29, 2002
You right, the religion is never meant for bad things. But look at it, most Islamic countries have high rate of illeteracy, so it is obvious that someone who can not read will never understand the real meaning of Qoran, and can be manipulated easily!!! besides, they did not teach us everything about our religion back in Morocco, and worst they did bad job in giving bad image about other religions especially Hebrew and Christianity! These people (illeterate) in Islamic countries they beleive everyone who is not muslim is kafeer, give me a break, that's a fiasco, and that's the driving force of all evil things that are happening right now in the world. we need to study and study and study to catch up.

4:03 pm    November 29, 2002
Sorry about that. The comment with no author belongs to me.

8:00 am    November 29, 2002
je suis tout a fait d'accord avec vous tous a ce sujet mais je voudrai attirer votre attention sur un fait ,c'est qu'il ne faut aussi se dire qu'il y a tellement de mauvaises interpretations du coran qu'on commence a l'interpreter comme ca nous arrange .il y a des choses sur les quels les imams diverges mais pas tout ,il ne faut pas tomber dans le piege des medias.

2:24 am    November 29, 2002
I completly agree with you. I mean why are they (Imams) so full of hatred. Why they did not condamn what ben laden did? why aren't they proclaiming a fatwa against al qaeda... you know what, forget about it. It's a waste of time anyway... I mean religion.
Have a nice day

12:34 am    November 29, 2002
FENDER, i just wanted to say; i agree with u man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hate when people use demagogy in otrder to force others to agree with them, and when it comes to religion it is even worse!!Why don't we show the good examplke by our acts and behaviours? i am sure it would be a more effective way to defend our religion than useless talks or violent acts supposed to be supportative of our brothers in palestine and irak....
What disgusts me th emost is to hear in some mosks(yes man herein europe atr least) some imams who have been living in europe for 10,210,30 years and when you listent to their preach it is just inbelievable!!!! the least u can name it is 'call to murder all the people that don't think like u and me'. so why ya akhy jiti l' ourouba wa galles kat t3ayr fiha, tout en profitant de l'allocation de chomage( here the social allowances are far better than in america).I don't think that this is a good islam.
bref, let us show our good will and our religion will regain respect among the others.

10:32 pm    November 28, 2002 This is an unrelated or foul message..

11:40 am    November 28, 2002
To Al7amdo who wrote :if it happens that it's the man who is not fecond and his wife would like to have her own kids? could she divorce him or get another man who is fecond if he agrees to that! I say God did not talk about that case in the Qoran because, if the woman has more than one husband, there will be a risk of not knowing the real father! there may be some other risks that I do not recall at this time. But anyways, God did not say that we should have more than one wife, it was just kind of exception. Guys remeber to go to INS for fingerprinting and Interviewing... as soon as possible. Also if you change the address remeber to send a copy to the immigration service in KY within 10 days (Forn AR 11 SR special registration). Aller happy thanksgiving to all of you.

10:56 am    November 28, 2002 This is an unrelated or foul message..
Salam, i know my message is not related to the discussed topic but i just wanna say this coming Sat 11/30 there is a big soccer game ( the final of the African Cup between Raja of Morocco and Zamalek of Egypt) it will be launched on Art if you have the satelite, let's wish the best luck to our team(RAJA) thank you

3:58 pm    November 29, 2002
I read all your interesting and unique comments, and I feel the need of stressing my previously posted opinion again. Also, I added a thought about the solution to the issue.

As I try to put words to my thoughts and contribute to this conversation, I feel a great deal of sadness that symbolizes my disappointment of mankind.
Nowadays, being Muslim is almost a threat to others (nonmuslim)-- this ideology or phobia was created by the government through the HYPED UP media.

My question is how did we (Muslims) reach this demeaning state?
Historically, we were always the most hospitable people, who would share the little they have with complete strangers. At a certain point of time we even happily and widely opened our doors and harbored some people, who were ?torture targets? for the Nazis. I mean MY GOD what a destiny for a great nation such as ours!

Looking at the world from a high sight, we realize that greed and NOT religion is responsible for the atrocities and crimes committed in this world. By definition, religion is here to help guide, serve, and lift up our souls, yet greed is here to destroy, demolish, and deprave our souls. It is not a hard equation to solve nor a hard case to prove. Greedy mankind is GUILTY.

The solution to the "misuse" of religion is unfortunately relatively reachable to prevailing over evil that is here and will use any pretext to justify its acts while religion is just a pretext.

Let us not blame it on religion anywhere in the world. God help us all.

Peace and Love.


1:12 pm    November 27, 2002 This is an unrelated or foul message..
wafine a derari, chefet be7al ila tekewekheto:)

1:19 am    November 27, 2002

fender (full stop) message
i guess you can look at it from different views, and if you add the factor emotion to it, the subject changes from religion misusage to the manipulation of minds using demagoguery.:)

6:43 pm    November 26, 2002
Fender, i think you didnt get Amin's idea. if pple are illitrate then they can be influenced by ideas that are enhenced by emotion. when you make a good combination of these two elements with the "right" person, then u have irrational pple who claim to use religion that urge u to become rational!!
i agree with ba amine, et besse7a leftour:)

3:45 pm    November 26, 2002

fender (full stop) message
Hello Amine,
Yes,in my opinion religions can be mis-used!! HOW ?
Because naive people exist! just as imbeciles do.
We can't deny that there still are people that don't know how to write, don't know how to read, never have been in schools, the only thing they know is what is told to them. Unfortunately sometimes good questions are asked to the wrong people (must say that the people asked don't even consider being wrong). badaboum badadoum Perfect combination for Chaos. :)

3:34 pm    November 26, 2002

fender (full stop) message
My experience with this topic is that we all sudently want to defend as good as possible the Islam. don't get me wrong it's great, but do we know enough to do so, can we take this task (and if we do!, are we sure to be serious enough and capable of such a job!). I know about my self that i can't, for the simple reason that i'm not an expert in this subject. However i think the best way i can contribute to this nobel cause is respecting everyone, by giving the example of a good muslim. hmm i'm getting out of the scope of the subject.
what i want to say is, why doesn't everyone just live his life and try to satisfy his moral issues the best he can. You are a muslim and you think Islam is a great religion , fine, so be a good one and try to impress the others by the goedness of your personality which will be explained by you following one great religion. I mean we all can read and Elhamdoulilah almost all people reached a certain level where they can take decisions about important things. Why making simple things complicated.
I classfy all what's left over under Misuse of Religion.
SAHA ftourkoum all and Enjoy this last days of Ramadan.

12:56 pm    November 26, 2002 This is an unrelated or foul message..
us study
hello everybody i want to ask if anyone know how can we her see art or lbc or mab en live . thank you so much for answer me

12:50 pm    November 26, 2002
i think that islam is my right path. the light that illumunates my vision and installs confort in my heart.this is a true religion and god is great. allah akbar.

12:06 pm    November 26, 2002

Rasta Gnawi message
Just a few questions: Does one really mis-use religion? Is religion a tool to be used or is it something greater/smaller than that?

Religion may not be just a set of values and principles that one acquires and adheres to. It is the encapsulation of answers to all questions that one might find himself reflecting upon.

I would rephrase the subject of the discussion from mis-use of religion to the manipulation of minds using demagoguery. Demagoguery feeds on emotions and submission to instill irrationality in people's minds. Once irrational and impulsive, people can be driven into doing anything.

Religion attempts to bring the rational element into the mind. It requires reflection and examination (something insisted upon in the Quran in numerous instances.) Therefore, it is not religion that is mis-used, rather the mind of people and their unwillingness to question events and actions.

The more one knows about his own religion/ideology, the less susceptible he is to falling into the trap of mis-use.

Just a few reflections for one who is 1.5 hours away from L'ftoor :)


10:53 am    November 26, 2002 This is an unrelated or foul message..
pour voir tv algeria :

10:20 am    November 26, 2002
Eh guys: I m back but for short! I did read your messsages Adnane and Arabi!!! It s very imcomparable things: Enron, and Moul Lhrira li Issami Waad lbent Bi hrirtou!))) you know just the Minnesotan budget is 4 to 5 times the moroccan budget!!! for 30 million people!!! how big is this difference!! I did mention the dinausors in Morocco , to relate the problem in our country not to make a comparaison

5:51 am    November 26, 2002

in my opinion the "misuse" of religion is actually due to factors inherent to the religion itself. Having a religion is already taking strong positions on different issues related to living in this world. Because all religions have very subjective feelings, opinionated views, and supposed-to-be-righteous judgment about many issues, one "rightly" or wrongly -misusing religion in both situations- ends up hating, persecuting, and even killing others if there is misunderstanding or conflict of interests. Moreover, he/she could always find something in his/her religious believes that he/she may think support his/her actions.

There are only two possibilities where religion can play a peaceful role and consequently couldn't be misused: if it's kept as a private matter or if it's reformed and adapted to fit our modern humanitarian values which don't belong to any one nation but are the fruit of all human societies' struggle since the dawn of time: freedom of thought; freedom of expression; respect of each other; egality and justice for all men and women; tolerance and acceptance of cultural diversity; right to have a decent life for everyone; right to love and live in peace; right to every people to live independently and freely on their own land (e.g. Palestinians, Tchechen, Tibetans, Kurds, etc...) zidozid...

I do understand that today, especially in the muslim world, Islam is a strong legacy that could drive oppressed people to conquer their rights to have a decent life in their world dominated by dictatorship and lack of all freedoms for men as well as for women, and subdued by globalization and hegemony of the will of few strong military powers.

But that is a domain of internal and international poltics and every nation should live up to its moral obligation of respecting and applying all those humanitarian values independently of any believes and oustside the realm of any religion, if we don't want the latter to be misused.

salam to all of you,

ps. Root: sounds to me like "your opinion" when said in arabic (Ra2youcom?), but i may be wrong :)


4:45 am    November 26, 2002
salamu 3alaykum ya ma3shara annas,

this is a very interesting discussion that's why i disagree with Joker. this is a very pertinent and focussed subjet. I am waiting for Joker's answer to Alaeddine :).
thanks master for participating in enlightening the dark world we live in.
Issami wrote:"...someone who's wife is not fecond! at that point, if the wife agrees that her husband can go on and marry another woman, it is fine then, as long as she allows him to do so"

what do you think Issami if it happens that it's the man who is not fecond and his wife would like to have her own kids? could she divorce him or get another man who is fecond if he agrees to that?

I may be wrong but it seems to me that there is nothing in the Quran that would address this situation, so what do you think.

And to all of you, don't you think that we are already misusing religion when we start using it to distinguish between us, muslims, and others?

salam and peaceful ramadane to all of you,


3:49 am    November 26, 2002 This is an unrelated or foul message..
To the people who put the effort into building this pretty neat site, what does Raioo mean? ..just curious
Sorry if the question is not related to the topic!

9:43 pm    November 25, 2002

alaeddine message
ok let's put this way for jocker what can we do to stop the misuse of religion?
by the way arabi^7ta^nmout sarbina ;)

9:15 pm    November 25, 2002
ok issami and adnane, ic wat u say, but what is the utility of this discussion?! we say there are some who misuse religion, then what?! i believe it should be more pertinent to focuse the subject into a specific subject that present a problem, then we can discuss it in order to come out with solutions and alternatives not only mere and simple opinions.
thank you all!

9:01 pm    November 25, 2002
chapeau a Adnane pour la creation de ce site. Good job et bon courage.

8:52 pm    November 25, 2002
I may not agree with you adnane in your example of someone who's wife is not fecond! at that point, if the wife agrees that her husband can go on and marry another woman, it is fine then, as long as she allows him to do so, It's better than divorce right? I think that's the only exception where a man can be given this right to go ahead and have 2 wives. But still I will never do it :) One is too much ka olla maka?

8:23 pm    November 25, 2002

Adnane Ben. message
Issami, good examples.

Joker, men who go on marrying a second wife... and their only reason is to.. have another woman, and they're so happy and convinced to throw the religious card at you (Islam allows marrying up to 4 wives). The worst thing is when someone marries a second wife, because him or his wife weren't successful in having babies... or she has a handicap etc.

Take people of Sayyed or Zawia. they started that stuff in order to attract people to the sayyed making them think that sayyed will bring baraka to their lives, will be a messenger to Prophet mohammed so their sins are cleansed.. and in return they pay sayyed personnel money, or tax.. sounds to me like The Church!


7:59 pm    November 25, 2002
I would like to answer that question instead of adnane! shouf par exemple: women are not allowed to vote in many countries in golf, and people are justifying that by Islam? did Islam really said something like that? Of course no. un autre exemple : The word Kafeer in the Qoran
; does it really mean everyone who is not Muslim? Of course not. Muslims along wth Jews and Chrsitian do beleive in One God and thus they are not Kafeer. But people like ben laden when they want to justify their doing, they will manipulate ileterate people and make them beleive that the Qoran says non muslims are koffar and deserve to be killed and things like that. the list of example is not exaustive.

7:28 pm    November 25, 2002
Adnane, can you give an example of misuse of religion to satisfy personal desire?

4:51 pm    November 25, 2002
Les amis,
I burned my Hrira as I was thinking about this new regulation! so I ended by breaking the fats in 3ammak McDonald. Al mohim, there is plenty of things to say about the blad (plenty of bad things of course), but still there is some good things. I would like to know what is the reaction of Morocco (the Moroccan embassy as an example) to the appearnce of Morocco in the black list? What should we do? should we contact the ambassador? any clue?

3:22 pm    November 25, 2002
It is funny how it all comes back to greed. The world is simply not perfect, in fact, we Arabs call it a "Douniya" for a valid reason.
Still live up, keep your head up, and stay on the positive side away from "dinausors" world.

Yak a "adnane"?

Peace N Love


2:34 pm    November 25, 2002

Adnane Ben. message
Lahyia, I don't think it is a good approach to put all the blame on dinausors of Morocco and make that an excuse to leave Morocco, where in fact you're coming to the USA to feed even bigger dinausors. The USA had economic scandals this year that make Morocco's scandals look miniscule. ENRON, etc. and who knows how many other companies are cheating and ripping off their employees and everyone else for that matter.

1:33 pm    November 25, 2002
Lahyia has to leave right now!! for more discussion , let me know hw you see the earth from the earth!!!! I m not asking to take the plane or to reserve a place on the moon, stay here, live here and be wise to make a good life:

1:31 pm    November 25, 2002
By the end of my last message, I mention the situation of our country,... I think been Muslims, let s talk about what s going on in our "muslim" country!!! yeah we are more concerned by there : we have our families, friends, our lands ... we are living for that to make it more prospere but if the guys there are keeping stealling our resources , where are we going!! in 70's we had 1 $ per day without working , the value of PO4 , now having 3% of phosphate is U, we should get more than that!!!! ::: it doesn't make crying: where is the ISlam, if we are really upset of the situation here in US how we have to be to face the actaul disaster in our beloved Morocco!!!

1:25 pm    November 25, 2002
Is very kind message! thanks for Larbai!!! Here, my point of view returns to consolidate the role of religion to create the ambiance and the atmopsphere to work and to live with and on this Earth::: the life becomes more difficult and more interesting to be lived !!! Muslims they have hard time right now, it s not because they want it, no just because Isalm in one of the most popular and the most rapid and fast in spreading! .. I agree with you Issam saying that we have hard time, it s normal : our cousins: the jewish are very aware about our strong religion: they have completely changed their religion to get more money and more power,.. isalm is completely against many principles and basis of the jews...
i will just close my day on the raioo with saying : Muslim isn't shame nor a problem: be a true muslim will absolutely give us more value and more credits we will get!!!
proud to be muslim living in US, the country that I I I respect: Our country did not give us what we deserve so ISlam and Couran invite us to immigrate and to get our lifes!!!

1:04 pm    November 25, 2002
As I try to put words to my thoughts and contribute to this conversation, I feel a great deal of sadness that symbolizes my disappointment of mankind. Nowadays, being Muslim is almost a threat to others (nonmuslim), this ideology or phobia was created by the government through the HYPED UP media.

My question is how did we (Muslims) reach this demeaning state? Historically, we were always the most hospitable people, who would share the little they have with complete strangers. At a certain point of time we even happily and widely opened our doors and harbored some people, who were ?torture targets? for the Nazis. I mean MY GOD what a destiny for a great nation such as ours!

Looking at the world from a high sight, we realize that greed and NOT religion is responsible for the atrocities and crimes committed in this world. By definition, religion is here to help guide, serve, and lift up our souls, yet greed is here to destroy, demolish, deprave our souls. It is not a hard equation to solve, nor a hard case to prove. Greedy mankind is GUILTY.

Let us not blame it on religion anywhere in the world. God helps us all.

Peace and Love.


12:49 pm    November 25, 2002
I do really understand the purpose of the screening and control of International community, cuz as Adnane said there is a lot of bad muslim poeple in this world (probably much more than christain or jewish people), this is because of a complicated matrix; Muslims that are bad most of them are ileterate (they do not understand the Qoran, and are easily manipulated), besides they are comming form poor countries, have no culture (from colonialism) and they do not really reflect the islam as religion. We (as muslims or islamic countries) really gave a very bad example and image for the West about Islam, and I think Allah is punishing us.

12:26 pm    November 25, 2002
Hey guys? where are you! Actually, it s just the web and is appropriate place to express yourselves!! be expressive !!! hey Issami go ont the lo Tv , look the link for TV you will see how the saoudien Tv considers the message of the US!!! Saying that they promote a very primordial and important role in the peace process and they can't be a danger on the US!!!!!
as I said before it doen't matter the country names but let s think about ourselves as muslims!!! that s it! Egypt receives more that $5 billions per year as a price of their contribution!!! it s just little example!!!
Guys, Ramadan Karim, it s my first day on this place!!!

12:11 pm    November 25, 2002
Yeah friends, isn't weired that Saudia arabia and egypt are not in the list? this is not fair at all! I mean if this thing is for enhancing security, SA should be the first country in the list right? So to me, they are searching in the wrong place and may create more hate than peace.

10:31 am    November 25, 2002
Eh Guys! I appreciate your points of view of the actual situation in the US. Both are expressing very common statments! one wants to live in a complete peacful place without having a realistic analysis of what s happening now in the US and in the world! for Adnane, you are absolutely right but the timing of the new regulation which is mentionned by Issami, doesn't include Egypt and SA which is very strange as exeption of the terrorism "LAND"!!!! some politics are there!!!
Now, if really you want how I see things here: ALAH give us religion to live with ourselves in peace first and to spread it among others!!! So, I don't see any problem or disturbance in going and giving my fingerprints, it s completely right to live in peace in this country, yes we are here, it s not our country but we are in to get and to develop our being!!! as musilms we have to be he first to show the example of our religion.

9:40 am    November 25, 2002
It's a very interesting subject folks. Did anyone of you hear about the new regulation passed by the white house. they put Morocco in the list along with some other alarmed countries!!! I think that most of the countries have been chosen because of the religion:( It's really very sad to see all what's happening now. All muslims are beeing called Terrorists these days. I think this need to stop, and we need to find a way to stop it? I was thiniking and thinking but still cannot think about a way to clarify the missunderstanding that some people have about Muslims. Yet some muslims are behind most of the troubles in the world : Nigeria, India, USA. But same time many christian and jews are doing the same or worst : Chechenya (Russian army soldiers are drinking vodka and killing arnd raping people), Sharon in the Meadle Est. I hope this is not the end of the world.

9:38 am    November 25, 2002
hi friends and hi adnane:)how are u doing
although i hate to talk about sth like these dicussions but what i wanna say is these days u cant see relly some 1 how is really honest with him self and god,every 1 is taking from al islam a reason to do bad things ......and make all the world look to us as we are the VIKING or the screamy people who has no sence and no love and no respect ....that is true and they must think in this wasy because there is a SICK people are trying always to make terrosit and detroy the concept of ilsam........



10:29 am    November 25, 2002

Adnane Ben. message
One of the misuses of religion, and in particular Islam, in my opinion is to take everything for granted without even asking questions why I am asked to do this, or not to do that.

Questioning and seeking answers with good intentions is an integral part not only of our life but also for the healthy image of our religion. There are many things in our religion that are orders, prohibitions, procedures, lifestyles.. Many of them are clear and common sense, but it is always joyful to think deep about them and squeeze every bit of wisdom out of them... There are others that are more subtle and vague and are left open to research, study, analysis and good interpretation.

There are religious scholars out there, academics or just wise people, who take researching our religion seriousely and I applaud that. We should hear what they have to say. Also we should entertain our own answers because you can. You listen, you hear, you read and you make up your mind. That is the purpose of religion. Religion power stops at your mind. Your mind has a fork, either you go the wrong thing or you do the good thing. In either way, you cannot blame it on religion, because religion stopped at the doorstep of your mind.


10:07 am    November 25, 2002

Adnane Ben. message
Issami, It is OK if the US tries to control who comes in and who comes out, THEY SHOULD. Since many Moroccans are part of terrorist organizations it makes sense to add Morocco to the list of countries whose immigrants or visitors to the US are put under special procedures and requirements of stay.

Morocco also has strict requirements with the Algerians! Morocco even CLOSED the borders with Algeria since the Marrakesh shooting. So based on that I wouldn't blame US.

On another note, one speaker in the mosque recently said something realistic. He said that it is very hard if not imporssible for immigrant muslims in the US to change things. The real change should eventually come out of the Americans themselves, the Muslim Americans, the American scholars, the wise and the honest of the American spirit.


9:31 am    November 25, 2002 This is an unrelated or foul message..
What Happen to 2M LIVE Links

7:24 am    November 25, 2002
On behalf of the few genuine human beings living in America, please let me apologize to all good decent people in the world -- but especially, Muslims!

Not everybody here agrees with our nation's policies, and I hope that Muslims do not themselves give into prejudice against us, even if we as a nation behave badly towards the rest of the world.

Only the individual can hope to change the world, by living a just, useful life, and by striving to be acceptable unto God.

Regarding the use or misue of religion, I would say only that the only true religion cannot be named or defined, but every human being who can honestly, unselfishly love others is able to know it, to the degree that one can love. (And about this, I am still only learning.)

The point of religion is only to seek God, wherever, whenever and however one can find traces of the Unspeakable.

No, I do not profess to be a Muslim, and cannot hope to understand how Muslims feel. But I am a lover of Islamic culture and literature, music and art, and through those approaches I hope that I catch a little of your spirit.

Please try to change us through love, as that is the force that moves the universe. And remember, too, that to express opinions such as mine lays one open to criticism and persecution here. Most people here are afraid to speak their minds, and for good reason. However, there is an upsurge of resistance against our government's policies, and I urge Muslims all over the world to pray for us.

Peace and love!



7:15 am    November 25, 2002
Salam alykum

My understanding of a misuse of religion, is what a lot of people of the 3 major religions in the world are doing to justify their evil acts and behaviors (christianity, judaism and Islam) I will start with some so called muslims and how they not only twist the religion, but also give the rest of the world a wrong idea about the principals and the basis of Islam, like them terrorists who shed inoccent blood all over the place in the name of "Jihad" and call it an islamic duty ... since when killing unarmed women, children and men who did not mean you any harm is an islamic duty and since when this was a part of the religion most of us in raioo grew up believing in?! and el Jihad is not about the sword, it has a much deeper meaning, el jihad is a struggle that starts with our evil selves(annafs) that we should struggle with to follow ALLAH's way and become the people he loves. Another example of the twisting or misuse of religion can be found within the Jews who think they are God's chosen people, and therefore claim supremacy over the rest of the world, those zionists forgot that not all the world jews right now are jews by blood (who were God's chosen people and lost this priviledge because they did not follow God's commandments), and a survey conducted (about 6 years ago) showed that only 7% of jews are religious, and they condemn the so called supremacy and try to tell the world that the Israeli government does not represent real jews, just like the terrorists don't represent real muslims.
This was in the top of my head, I will add some more examples as I think of them later on inshaLLAH.
Speaking of religion, may I remind all of muslim readers that the last 10 days of Ramadhan are starting tomorrow inshaLLAH, let us all pray from the bottom of our hearts and seek ALLAH's help and guidance.



5:53 am    November 25, 2002
Check out this site for Quoranic recitation with english translation, prayer times and and many other islamic topics..
hope you'll enjoy it wassalamoaalikom war7matollahi wabarakatoh.

4:34 am    November 25, 2002
Jdidi, i won't worry about it if i were you! there are many other beautifull places to visit apart from the US!! in fact, shall i tell you something you know what the problem is what America?'s full of Americans!!!yeah, i have been myself many times, lovely country but man! what can i say..Some of the americans need to get a passeport and travel to see the world and explore other cultures and get the "we got everything we need here!!" out of their narrow mind.. Sorry, i don;t mean All the of the US citizens!!

3:15 am    November 25, 2002
Salam addrari et lebnates biens?r!
I applyed for a visa to go to California, but i was rejected from the embassy(I?m moroccan living in Sweden, and ?ve been to the state 3 times before)Between us, I really did not wanted to go there, but my wife won to buisness class tickets from Stockholm to Sweden...So why? Let me tell you, I?am Italian and French teacher, and married to a sweddish girl(i?m28 y.o by the way)...We recieved an invitation from our friend Ed in L.A, because the embassy send a letter to me because I was seeking this invitation, so the day I was called for the interview, the lady in the embassy did even not asked about this letter!!! Which I think disgusting, she just told me that the one who gave me a visa before were nice!!!! She also asked what was the name of my wife, so I told her that she has the same arabic name as I "El...." And directly she said, "Sorry You can?t get the visa" Just because my wife chang her name to mine las summer and she became Sara El... So it sounds like a real arabic girl name!!!! This was my story, so we lost out tickets and lost my love for the states, but not for the american people!
Ramadan Karim

9:42 am    November 26, 2002 This is an unrelated or foul message..

Adnane Ben. message
To make a short story behind a short name long.
I first had the idea to broadcast north african music online for my friends and familly, and it started sometime in 2000. It was fun and great because I could talk with them live one-way! But only up to 10 listeners can tune in before the stream starts getting congested. Up to now 10 listeners is still the limit, but whoever tunes in immediately falls in love with the Magic of Raioo radio. I don't dj though, no time! maybe in the future, there are chances.

Eventually I felt like hosting the radio online and I needed to come up with a name. Every north african I know has listened to Rai music at some point in their lives. Rai music is this.. common ground nowadays. Foreigners associate north africa with camels and fez hats, but also with Rai music. So after so many scribbles on napkins and paper, I added a double oo at the end of Rai, and the word immediately got stuck: raioo

The web site went through so many transformations, morphosis and developpment. The radio station was still the focal point, but a new character started to develop through the creative and funny writings of many of the early amazing contributors full of skill and passion to Morocco such as Amine Benali, Bouchra Fajrelislam, Antr McShaddad, Mahjoub Labyad, Samir Aboulhouda, Hassan Elghani.. One of the popular sections we opened up was Morocco's Funniest Photos. It made Raioosters feel home, it made them laugh, but on top of all it made them proud of their North African heritage and identity.

As time went by, I started to see the serious side of the word raioo, and as al7amdou said earlier, it started to say: his opinion, a person that is, man or woman. I sailed into the sea more and added the discussions section.

One of chat trails in the recipe section (Zaalouk Salad) inspired me even more. Only in Raioo can a salad inspire people to talk about God. I always made it a first priority of this site to respect people's opinions. that I kept dear to me. that I will keep dear in order for people to practise conversing, and improve upon reading others and thinking before responding. Remember that words have personalities, and if you go back and read your own messages you will pretty much discover your personality. Raioo can be a tool for you to improve, use it wisely.

Raioo is a progressive Moroccan site, full of Intellect, Art, FUNK and Folklore!

So to answer you, raioo means a lot to me and to many people =)

Adnane Ben.'s notes (341)
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A Beautiful Burda Recitation!..
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Ya Ghrib !..... ft. Khaled, Lamine, Rai NB..
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T-shirt design: Magic e-lamp..
My August '05 T-shirt Designs ..
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Do You Play Music?..
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Hmida Rass Lmida à L'Avare de Molière!
Moroccan City Names
Shining ability is a gift...
Halloween SPECIAL 2007: La Mort D'une Souri!
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Why do we pray ?
short ones
ABSOLUTE RAIOO Summer 2007 Rai vol.2
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North Africa Journal
Moroccan Tattoos
From Los Angeles to Casablanca!
Amina Alaoui Lyrics
Dr. Hassan Al-Turabi
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Les Oiseaux De Figuig!
ghir bessyas a moulay!
Moroccan Playing Cards Game ronda v1.0
A Call From Algeria to Help Suffering Little Boy Mounib!

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