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SPIRITUAL
Adnane Ben.
Boston USA
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125
comments.
Sunni and Shiah in Islam
12:00:00 AM Saturday Sep 20, 2003



Raioosters, this discussion's intent is to learn about the Sunni and the Shiah, two branches in the history of Islam. What makes them different? what do they have in common? If Islam is One, shouldn't they someday agree to put their differences aside and merge as One? God soub7anaho wa ta3ala said: "Hadhihi Ummatukum Ummatoun WA7idatoun, wa ana Rabbukum Fa3boudoun". Notice how God said kum meaning, yours. This is your community, and your community is UNITED! more than that God is not saying that maybe you are different but you should unite, in my humble opinion he is saying, you are not different, you are ONE, WA7idatoun. No Shiah, no Sunni, no Wahabi, no qashbandites. Kindly take the time to read the following few paragraphs to help spark the discussion.

I also think it's important to provide the definition of two important terms related to this subject so we don't get confused: dogma and cult. If you already know what they mean, perfect, if you don't, always heard them but you never researched their meaning here it is. According to The American Heritage? Dictionary of the English Language:
Dogma.
1. A doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a church.
2. An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true. See synonyms at doctrine.
3. A principle or belief or a group of them: ?The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present? (Abraham Lincoln).
Cult.
1a. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
1b. The followers of such a religion or sect.
2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
5a. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
5b. The object of such devotion. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.
Sect.
1. A group of people forming a distinct unit within a larger group by virtue of certain refinements or distinctions of belief or practice.
2. A religious body, especially one that has separated from a larger denomination.
3. A faction united by common interests or beliefs.


See you in the discussion.

Edited by Syed Mumtaz (read full selected text here)

"There are three main groups among Muslims: Sunnis, Shi'ahs and the Abadites (nicknamed Kharijites), with several subdivisions. They have few differences in matters both of dogma and cult . . . In a cosmopolitan town, when one sees Muslims of different schools practising differently the same act, one asks wherefrom this divergence? Leaving aside the differences in dogma, which come from the deduction of the leading theologians of each school, in the matterof cult let us know from the outset that nothing has been invented by anybody, but all comes from the Prophet himself or is deducted from the report of his saying or doing." 1

"The two great sects among Muslims, the Sunnites and the Shi'ites date back to the Umayyads. "The difference between these two sects is based on a political question, whether the succession to the Prophet should take place by election or by inheritance among the close relatives of the Prophet? This became a question of dogma to the Shi'ites, and the schism split into ramifications of its own and occasioned civil wars. It is one such uprising which swept away the Umayyad dynasty, and made it yield its place in 750 [A.D.] to the Abasids, but the Shi'ites did not profit by the change. In our days there are probably ten percent Shi'ites among the Muslims of the world, the rest being almost all Sunnites, not to speak of the infinitesimally small sect of the Kharijites, which also came into existence at the same time." 2

"Islamic tradition reserves to the Caliph or the head of the Muslim State not only politics (including administration of justice), but also cult, i.e., the outward practice of the religion, such as the service of worship [salat], fasting and pilgrimage. All this falls under the purview of the Fiqh (Muslim law) developed by the different schools. In this realm, monopoly of power has been jealously imposed, although this concerns a rather less important part of our life. Sectarian differences exist among Muslims since the death of the Prophet, as to who had the right to succeed to the Prophet in the exercise of the power regarding politics and cult. Let us leave the decision to God on the Day of Judgment, and let us occupy ourselves with our future and the defense against the enemies of God. As to the inner life, which alone determines the salvation in the everlasting Hereafter, in this sphere there are no jealousies: several persons could and did succeed the Prophet simultaneously. If the Naqshbandiyah Order of mystics seeks its authority from the Prophet through Abu Bakr, the Qadiriyah and the Suhrawardiyah orders for instance, do the same through 'Ali, and all this among the Sunnis to whom Abu Bakr alone was the immediate successor of the Prophet in the political field. This spiritual Realm, which unites Sunnis and Shi'iahs, is not vapid abstraction: It has its own full-fledged administrative organization. The existence of Abdal and Autad or spiritual governors and administrators, is known on the authority of the Prophet himself, as we read by as early an author as Ibn Sa'd. A monograph of Suyuti has collected all the traditions of the Prophet on the subject of qutb, abdal and autad." 3

1. Introduction to Islam, by Dr. M. Hamidullah, paragraph 563a.
2. Ibid paragraph 499.
3. Ibid paragraph 208a

The content of this page —graphics, text and other elements—is © Copyright 2007 prospective author, and Raioo, Inc., only when stated otherwise, and may not be reprinted or retransmitted in whole or in part without the expressed written consent of the publisher.



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9:25 pm    February 12, 2008

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
125
123
Mo,
I have to admit that I ams till illiterate when it comes to Imams.... who followed who and who did what to whom...

I thought that Zamzam Carnaval in Morocco had to do with the water of Zamzam in Mecca.


Hard to validate encient historic events 100%, as you know...:)
Sometimes History is "His Story"... :-)

I will have to do my own part of research, to figure if the version of history you proposed is the one agreed upon by the majority of the Muslims.


Thanks for the input.

Antr

PS: Morning coffee tastes like a smooth strike between the ears (:/

·

9:39 pm    February 11, 2008
rehan
124
to samia- i am from sunni community wanna know the difference between shiah and sunni belief.why we r thearsty of other blood.mail add-rhassan_su@yahoo.com
·

11:24 am    January 15, 2008
mo
123
119
if you need any information about shia Vs sunnies contact me I can help you, I have 128 books written by both sunnies and shias.

One of the first books anyone should read is the IMAMAT AND THE POLITICS written by a sunni scholar in 258.

this scholar was killed after he wrote the history of the khalifs.

this book is available in morocco in a very few places. you can find it in fes city in the old islamic library.

salaams


you said "isn't the whole purpase of marriage is make offspring and live together not have divorce in mind( knowing that divorce is allah's most hated halal). "

NO the purpose of marriage in Islam is NOT to make offspring. It is to complete your "deen" your Islam, your imane and faith..
If you base the purpose of marriage on offspring, then what becomes of those couples who are infertile or cannot have children??!!! HELLOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
Islamically, you are encouraged to get married to a person who is truly honest, good, practicing, and knowledgeable about Islam, so that you can learn together and grow in faith together. That way you have a good life partner to help you in your imane so the 2 of you will be partners in good, supporting each other, protecting each other, and learning together.
Children are a side effect ;-) of course we are encouraged to have children, and to raise them correctly as the sunah teaches. But ultimately that is not the purpose of marriage.

People who are sunnies are the ones who follow after

Mohammed "Salla lahu alayhi wa Alih"

Abuba-bakr ( very rich sahabi-very old)

Omar ( ok rich sahabi)

Uthman (very very rich sahabi)

Ali (very very poor first cousin of the prophet+son in-law of the prophet+servent of the prophet+sahabi)

Moawiya(powerful and rich sahabi/ bad sahabi)

Yazid ben moawiya(powerful/ rich /killer) Hitler almost finished the jews similarely yazid almost finished A'ahl Mohammed.

Moawiya bin yazid( much better than his father, tryed his best to earn respect)...from him the first division withing sunnies starts.
........ect

in morocco it goes all the way to what we call Imam Malik.

in shia:
Mohammad (Salla lahu alayhi wa salam wa aalih)

1-Ali (first cousin/ son in-law/ sahabi/ servent/ general of the muslim army)

2-Hassan ben ali ( first grand son of Fatima the daughter of mohammad s.a.w.w)

3-Hussain ben ali (second grand son and the favorite grand son of mohammad. was killed shahid by yazid)

4-Ali ben hussain "zain al3abidine" assajad ( the only man who lived after yazid killed all the family of mohammed)

5-Al-bakir the sone of Ali.zain al3abidine

6-jaffar ben mohammed al-bakir_ Assadiq

7-Mussa ibn jaffar

8-Ali ibn mussa- al-Rida

9-Mohammad Taqi- Aljawaad

10-Mohammad Naqi- Alhadi

11-Hassan ibn hadi - Al3askari

12-Mohammad ben hassan Almahdi.

REMARQUES:
I-Imam Malik that we follow in Morocco was a student of Imam

Imam Malik that we follow in morocco was a student of # 6, Jaffar, grand grand...son of the prophet, therefore in many places in morocco you see people praying with their hands open, while in other places they cross their hands.

II- In all our prayers we say " Allahuma sali 3ala mohammad WA AALI Mohammad" we dont say " Alahuma sali 3ala mohammad was sahabat mohamad"
The Ahl of mohammad are his descendent children and his grand children who are the imams that shias follow !!!!! isn't interesting!!!!

III- when we learn Islam in morroc they tell us there are 4 khalifas only while there are more than that. The reason is Moawiya and his son were very bad people they belonged to the umawiya family who promissed they will do anything to distroy the hachimi family.
the Hachimi family is the family of the prophet.

VERY IMPORTANT!!!!
in morocco in ashura we celebrate and do ZAMZAM!!!!

ZAMZAM started like this:
After Yazid killed hussain (s.a.w) and all the other family of the prophet, after starving them and leaving them thirty for more than 3 days. He put their heads in the swores and enetered kufa. HE told people " we killed the enemies of islam lets celebrate"

PEOPLE START THROWING WATER ON THE heads making fun that they died while they were thirsty. Now in morocco we celebrate it without even knowing why???? ignorance!!!

Adnane, that map is little old, things have changed in the last 10 yrs.

wassalam.

·

11:22 am    January 15, 2008
"£0((_+_?kll
122
119
££aint we all muslim why sunni and shiah????$%&^*R$*££()?@;>'#;#
·

11:20 am    January 15, 2008
mohamed
121
1
salam to everyone


what do shiahs do in the 10th day of muharam?

·

11:19 am    January 15, 2008
mohamed
120
1
salam to everyone


what do shiahs do in the 10th day of muharam?

·

11:19 am    January 15, 2008
mohamed
119
1
salam to everyone


what do shiahs do in the 10th day of muharam

·

11:35 am    July 9, 2005
imeno
118
you said "isn't the whole purpase of marriage is make offspring and live together not have divorce in mind( knowing that divorce is allah's most hated halal). "

NO the purpose of marriage in Islam is NOT to make offspring. It is to complete your "deen" your Islam, your imane and faith..
If you base the purpose of marriage on offspring, then what becomes of those couples who are infertile or cannot have children??!!! HELLOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
Islamically, you are encouraged to get married to a person who is truly honest, good, practicing, and knowledgeable about Islam, so that you can learn together and grow in faith together. That way you have a good life partner to help you in your imane so the 2 of you will be partners in good, supporting each other, protecting each other, and learning together.
Children are a side effect ;-) of course we are encouraged to have children, and to raise them correctly as the sunah teaches. But ultimately that is not the purpose of marriage.

·

8:44 am    July 7, 2005
samia
117
116
# 2 was hassan not first grand son of fatima, but first son of fatima and first grand son of the prophet.
sorry
·

8:41 am    July 7, 2005
samia
116
People who are sunnies are the ones who follow after

Mohammed "Salla lahu alayhi wa Alih"

Abuba-bakr ( very rich sahabi-very old)

Omar ( ok rich sahabi)

Uthman (very very rich sahabi)

Ali (very very poor first cousin of the prophet+son in-law of the prophet+servent of the prophet+sahabi)

Moawiya(powerful and rich sahabi/ bad sahabi)

Yazid ben moawiya(powerful/ rich /killer) Hitler almost finished the jews similarely yazid almost finished A'ahl Mohammed.

Moawiya bin yazid( much better than his father, tryed his best to earn respect)...from him the first division withing sunnies starts.
........ect

in morocco it goes all the way to what we call Imam Malik.

in shia:
Mohammad (Salla lahu alayhi wa salam wa aalih)

1-Ali (first cousin/ son in-law/ sahabi/ servent/ general of the muslim army)

2-Hassan ben ali ( first grand son of Fatima the daughter of mohammad s.a.w.w)

3-Hussain ben ali (second grand son and the favorite grand son of mohammad. was killed shahid by yazid)

4-Ali ben hussain "zain al3abidine" assajad ( the only man who lived after yazid killed all the family of mohammed)

5-Al-bakir the sone of Ali.zain al3abidine

6-jaffar ben mohammed al-bakir_ Assadiq

7-Mussa ibn jaffar

8-Ali ibn mussa- al-Rida

9-Mohammad Taqi- Aljawaad

10-Mohammad Naqi- Alhadi

11-Hassan ibn hadi - Al3askari

12-Mohammad ben hassan Almahdi.

REMARQUES:
I-Imam Malik that we follow in Morocco was a student of Imam

Imam Malik that we follow in morocco was a student of # 6, Jaffar, grand grand...son of the prophet, therefore in many places in morocco you see people praying with their hands open, while in other places they cross their hands.

II- In all our prayers we say " Allahuma sali 3ala mohammad WA AALI Mohammad" we dont say " Alahuma sali 3ala mohammad was sahabat mohamad"
The Ahl of mohammad are his descendent children and his grand children who are the imams that shias follow !!!!! isn't interesting!!!!

III- when we learn Islam in morroc they tell us there are 4 khalifas only while there are more than that. The reason is Moawiya and his son were very bad people they belonged to the umawiya family who promissed they will do anything to distroy the hachimi family.
the Hachimi family is the family of the prophet.

VERY IMPORTANT!!!!
in morocco in ashura we celebrate and do ZAMZAM!!!!

ZAMZAM started like this:
After Yazid killed hussain (s.a.w) and all the other family of the prophet, after starving them and leaving them thirty for more than 3 days. He put their heads in the swores and enetered kufa. HE told people " we killed the enemies of islam lets celebrate"

PEOPLE START THROWING WATER ON THE heads making fun that they died while they were thirsty. Now in morocco we celebrate it without even knowing why???? ignorance!!!

Adnane, that map is little old, things have changed in the last 10 yrs.

wassalam.

·

7:59 am    July 7, 2005
samia
115
112
if you need any information about shia Vs sunnies contact me I can help you, I have 128 books written by both sunnies and shias.

One of the first books anyone should read is the IMAMAT AND THE POLITICS written by a sunni scholar in 258.

this scholar was killed after he wrote the history of the khalifs.

this book is available in morocco in a very few places. you can find it in fes city in the old islamic library.

salaams

·

11:16 pm    July 6, 2005
kadnane
114
Salam,
with all my respect Adnane, but malk 3la 9so7iyt Rass, the guys are right about the map. please look for another one that doesn't include the border between Morocco and ........ MOROCCO.
·

1:14 pm    October 14, 2004
everisto
113
103
I just wanted to ask these people trying to become shiites if they know anything about islam, and then ask them if they think that abu bakr and omar did all these bad things and knowing that allah is allknowing would still let the prophet peace be upon him befriend these people even when he knew they were gonna betray him.and granting you the idea that they wanted the khilafa, could anyone tell me what they gained from it, usually people want power to make money or have control over people; but looking at omar for example lived a much simple life than what he had before islam and he told his son not to run for the khilafa because it wasn't an easy task. if he wanted the dounia would he cared if it was hard or easy would he have been scared of allah to be punished for his followers in the day of judgement.
and concerning the mot3a marriage to me it is another example of adultery or else nobody would have commited adultery if a marriage was that easy. and as they say whatever is built on falsehood is false. isn't the whole purpase of marriage is make offspring and live together not have divorce in mind( knowing that divorce is allah's most hated halal).
·

6:21 pm    September 29, 2003
A Muslima
112
and this is from sahih Muslim:
book030# 4016
Ibn Abbas reported: When Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was about to leave this world, there were persons (around him) in his house, 'Umar b. al-Kbattab being one of them. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Come, I may write for you a document; you would not go astray after that. Thereupon Umar said: Verily Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) is deeply afflicted with pain. You have the Qur'an with you. The Book of Allah is sufficient for us. Those who were present in the house differed. Some of them said: Bring him (the writing material) so that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) may write a document for you and you would never go astray after him And some among them said what 'Umar had (already) said. When they indulged in nonsense and began to dispute in the presence of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), he said: Get up (and go away) 'Ubaidullah said: Ibn Abbas used to say: There was a heavy loss, indeed a heavy loss, that, due to their dispute and noise. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) could not write (or dictate) the document for them.

-Othman betrayed Ali.
-Moawiya killed Ali(a.s) the first one who beleived in Mohammed and his GOD.
-Yazid killed the hole family of the prophet. he killed Husayn the grand son of the prophet in Karbala on the 10th day of muharram.

there is an excelent book written by TIJANI, a moroccan sunni who hated shia to death, but after more than 20 years he converted to shiaism. this book is called: "thumma Ihtadayt"
well that s all for now.
peace.

·

6:11 pm    September 29, 2003
A Muslima
111
salam,
lets see who are these people:
-Abu-bakr:- He burned the house of Fatima-Zahra, the daughter of the holly Prophet Mohammed( s.a.w)
- Fatima Zahra did not talk to him for 6 month till he died.
-Omar: He called the prophet CRAZY:
'Abbas said, "Thursday! What (great thing) took place on Thursday!" Then he started weeping till his tears wetted the gravels of the ground . Then he said, "On Thursday the illness of Allah's Apostle was aggravated and he said, "Fetch me writing materials so that I may have something written to you after which you will never go astray." The people (present there) differed in this matter and people should not differ before a prophet. They said, "Allah's Apostle is seriously sick.' The Prophet said, "Let me alone, as the state in which I am now, is better than what you are calling me for." The Prophet on his death-bed, gave three orders saying, "Expel the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula, respect and give gifts to the foreign delegates as you have seen me dealing with them." I forgot the third (order)" (Ya'qub bin Muhammad said, "I asked Al-Mughira bin 'Abdur-Rahman about the Arabian Peninsula and he said, 'It comprises Mecca, Medina, Al-Yama-ma and Yemen." Ya'qub added, "And Al-Arj, the beginning of Tihama.")

·

6:03 pm    September 29, 2003
A Muslima
110
SALAM ADNAN,
well I m learning about shia because I might be converting to shia very soon ( it seems the right path of Islam),
thursday inshallah I ll show you from bukhari, why shia did chose to follow Imams, and how is it related to KORAN.
if you want you can give me your address and I ll send you a book, you will be surprised.
also if you have some questions go to: www.shiachat.com
there is a sunni-shia dialog. you will learn a lot.
salam
·

9:57 am    September 26, 2003

abdelilah message
109
He will bear his father's name. Nothing worse than not paying attention to questions my friend.
·

8:50 am    September 26, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
108
103
Nothing is more fatal than not asking questions, my friend . ;)
·

8:49 am    September 26, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
107
101
How can you consider a child born out of zawaj-almot3a different from an illegitimate child, , if he cann't even bear the name of his father ? let alone inheriting his property ...
·

8:42 am    September 26, 2003

abdelilah message
106
WA MB I said mut3a children are legitimate children. We kadiyya mouhimma dyal lkhilafa ana be3da m3a lkadiyya dyal ahl al bait houma lli koun 3andhoum khilafa rouhiyya we lkhilafa zamaniyya tkoun shoura bi tadawul. A dual system a bit close to the Iranian system.
·

8:40 am    September 26, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
105
101
So how, does it work ?
Should a man go to the girl's father and ask him to borrow his daughter to him for a limited periode of time ?
Or would he would just walk in the souk and whispers to women
"psst...psst....Zawat al mot3a... anybody intersted ?" (:/

Would you allow your daughter or sister to practice zawaj al mot3a?

·

8:39 am    September 26, 2003
mb
104
103
il faut tjs se poser des question , il n y a k en se posant des question que notre croyance grandit...il ne faut pas avoir peur de se poser tte sorte de question sur la religion....mettre en doute ne veux pas dire ne pas y croire...au contraire..kand on mets en doute qqch et qu on en soit convaincu apres mure reflection ben je peux te dire que la croyance est plus forte et plus incruste....guess am off topic again , just wanted to make a comment on that ...oh! one more thing! what happends to illegimate kids in morocco? can you go to court and get the father recognize his kid? do we really do ADN tests? or is it just the responsability of the woman??? what does islam say about it ? I know it is wrong ...but what are the kids rights????
·

7:00 am    September 26, 2003
Mo
103
Bien je crois que l?enfant dial Zawaj el mout3a 7alal pas comme un autre enfant elli sans marriage. le principe dial zwaj c'est juste pour reserver les racines, y en a d'entre vous qui vont me dire bien on peut reserver les racines sans mariage et je dirais oui peut etre mais on ne peut pas aussi savoir ma7ikmat allah fi dalik
PS : faut faire attention d drari et dariyate parfois se trop poser des questions et de ne pas avoir confiance en dieu peut vous etes une action fatal !
·

6:09 am    September 26, 2003
mb
102
101
so the mout3a is allowed but if anyone get chldren out of it ...they would not have any right at all??????? !!!!!!!!!!!!! it is a zawaj no ? so legal?! how come the kids are illegitime????
·

4:13 am    September 26, 2003

abdelilah message
101
The issue of the mut3a is just to try to think practically about the issue of dating. An illegitimate child has no rights meanwhile the others are real children.
·

1:45 am    September 26, 2003
Mo
100
Et voil? un site avec les differentes sectes wallahou a3lam !

http://www.fsonline.net/February2003/Religious/sects.htm

·

1:35 am    September 26, 2003
Mo
99
98
D?sol? pour le charabia qui est dans le texte ci-desous, mais c'etait juste de l?arabe je ne sais pas si quelquin de vous sait comment faire pour r?gler ce petit prob !
·

1:32 am    September 26, 2003
Mo
98
????? ????????? ????????? ????????? ?????????? ?????? ???
?????? ??? ???????? ????????? ??????? ??????????
?The people of the Book did not disagree except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them? [TMQ Ale-Imran: 19]

????? ????????????? ??? ?????? ?????????? ????? ?????? ????????????
??and if you differ in anything refer it back to Allah and His Messenger?? [TMQ An-Nisa: 59]

·

10:11 pm    September 25, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
97
96
I would say both, I'm thirsty for any information related to the subject of Shiah. I'm intrigued by how Muslims throughout history got to divide into sects. Many times it seems because of interpretation and Ijtihad. Different Imams and scholars interpret things differently, hence the birth of major sects. It is quiet intriguing how much influence these respected Imams had in their community.. For us in Morocco, we follow Imam Malek from Madina (Saudi Arabia). People used to say: La youfta wa Malikoun fil Madina. Imagine how much wisdom and good judgement this Imam had... Another reason for birth of sects is the unfortunate reason of politics which I find that unnecessary. And this seems to be the only reason that gave birth to Shiah.. I wish there was some Shiah visitors to raioo so they could tell us their point of view and if they see each other different than the rest of the Muslims.
·

5:08 pm    September 25, 2003
A Muslima
96
salamoualikoum,

All what I have wrote are informations that are true100%

I did not narrated the HADITH, our Prophet did..

My question is, do you guys want to know the difference and how did it happened through the history of our religion, or you just want to give your opinions?

salam

·

1:06 pm    September 25, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
95
92
If a man gets a woman pregnant, figuring out that he is the father is not big deal, DNA test is a better witness than Le3douL .

Now, if we assume that zawaj al mot3a is meant to protect a man from assuming his responsabilities in case his mot3a-woman gets pregnant ... do you consider that morally
acceptable ? and if it is, what's the difference between a child born out of mot3a-"marriage" and an illegitimate child ?

·

12:41 pm    September 25, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
94
93
Thanks Muslima. Well, how about who are all these sects so far for all these sects, one may go on by a process of elimination :) --- computer science programmers, think for() loop, or foreach() loop, you better hit that break; otherwise the sect is not born yet.
·

12:22 pm    September 25, 2003
A Muslima
93
Salamoualikoum,
I think the TOPIC is the differecnce between shia and sunni.
Well, as soon as the prophet(s.a.w) died they were two groups of Muslims:
1- Sunnies: those who follewed, Abu-bakr, Omar, Othman, Ali, Moawiya, Yazid, Moawiya ben Yazid... and the list goes on.
2- Shia of Ali which means followers of the descendece of our prophet Mohammad(s.a.w): Ali Hassan, Hussain, zayn_al_Abidine, Ba9ir, Jaffar Sadi9, kadhim, Arrida, Aljayad, hadi, Askari, and Mahdi. THey call them the infallible Imams.

In morocco, we follow, Imam Malik who was a student of the Imam Jaffar Assadi9, we also have some shia in the north side of Morocco. but we rarely hear about them.

Now in each of these two sects of Islam, there are so many smaller sects, these sects were created mostely for political reasons, and are destroying the union of Islam.

Our Prophet Mohammad sala-allahu-alayhi-wa-sallam said: "they will be 73 sects of Islam after me, but only one of them will go to heaven." this hadith is common between all the sects of Islam, and you can find it in each islamic book of Hadith.

Now the biggest question comes: WHO"S THIS SECT?

I let you answer this question.

peace.

·

9:44 am    September 25, 2003

abdelilah message
92
If Bill has a kid with Monica the kid will not bear the Clinton name and certainly his ivy league education will not be paid by the taxpayer. There is no written document or witnesses or walima to sanctify the union. It is just unzip and fire. Al mut3a is a marriage act exactly like the other one except with specifying the duration.
·

7:53 am    September 25, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
91
89
what's the difference between zawaj Al-mot3a (if it does exist) and the relationship of Bill Clinton to Monica Lewinsky ?
·

7:46 am    September 25, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
90
82
Bahai is a religion created by a serie of prophete wannabees who apeared during the last century in Iran .
http://www.bahai.org/article-1-2-0-5.html
I supposed marijuana was legal back then ...;)

Ron Hubard the father of scientology came up with something similar, except that it is Issac Asimov style ...
The Mothership is coming ....So, are you ready to save your souls ? (:P

http://www.scientology.org/html/en_US/l-ron-hubbard/index.html

·

7:22 am    September 25, 2003

abdelilah message
89
The mut3aa marriage is one of the issues that people do not know about and link it always with the shi3aa. This is the temporary marriage where people stipulate the duration in the contract with the agreement of both parties. What do you think of mut3aa as an alternative to Zinaa or fornication? do you think the Sunna have it as well?
·

6:46 am    September 25, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
88
Morning, I just want to make it clear: In these sensitive channels such as politics, it is RAIOO who prefers to be neutral when presenting the topic for discussion and not Adnane. That way we don't take sides and we let readers think independently. Adnane is different from RAIOO. My opinions can be read among your opinions in the discussion. Regarding the Sahara, I already made my opinion in the discussion I provided the link for earlier. It is vital for Sahara to be part of Morocco, yet it is MORE vital for Morocco to reastablish great friendship and cooperation with neighbooring Algeria - as Amine mentioned.

Regards, and hope we get back to the main discussion. And please direct any comments about Sahara from now on to the discussion under politics: The Sahara: Moroccan Or Sovereign. Thanks in advance.

·

5:56 am    September 25, 2003
mb
87
82
je tire mon chapeau a ta neutralite Adnane!!
on devrait avoir plus de personne comme toi au maroc.
et puis serieusement ...i was all excited about this topic cause i don t know anything about it....thought i would learn something from you guys...but all they are talking about is sahara....please let s get back to the topic.
·

4:41 am    September 25, 2003

abdelilah message
86
I salute you Adnane for your 'neutral' and 'objective' stance in the 'map controversy' which is not even the topic of discussion. You are right in believing in the UN instead of doing propaganda for either camps. Those who want this site to turn into RTM or alike can go to other sites or create their own sites and eat a lot of bastilla. Thank you again Adnane and do nto be put off by their remarks.
·

2:21 am    September 25, 2003
Za
85
De ma part aussi Ansa7ib de ce site ! je voulais dire la meme chose que Si " Arabi^7ta^Nmout " mais j?hesitais ze3ma 3llah wa3assa mais bon allah yehdi man yacha2
Je vous souhaite alors bonne chance et que dieu change un peu votre fois vers notre religion et notre patrie et je dis

ALLAHOU AKBAROU KABIRA WAL 7AMDOU LILLAHI KATIRA
WA ACHHADOU ANA LA ILAHA ILLA ALLAH WA ANA MOHAMMADANE RASOULOU ALLAH

et je rejoute aussi

ALLAH ALWATANE ALMALIK

·

1:07 am    September 25, 2003
Arabi^7ta^Nmout
84
75
Extremely disappointed, so farewell Raioo!

If Sahara we are talking about here is an issue for the Nation of Morocco, it automatically implies that is an issue for all Moroccans. If this website is targeting MOROCCAN population, then it should be sensitive to Moroccans? needs. We well know that this isn?t about Raioo staying ?objective as much as possible?, it is a frequent message or free propaganda for ?the other party? that you are sending over and over again.

More clearly, you have NO respect for MOROCCANS. The leadership and people of Morocco have no doubts about Moroccan sovereignty and its territorial integrity nor should you if you were a true Moroccan?.oh wait?before you react?

Yes of course you have the right to join the other side?s opinion but please do NOT try to embed that idea in Moroccans mind. Think of like a Christian family who invite you to stay in their house for as much as time as you want for no cost. Being a foreigner, you think how nice this family is until you realize that they are including Christianity in every discussion you have with them trying to convert you.

(cont')

·

1:06 am    September 25, 2003
Arabi^7ta^Nmout
83
75
(cont')
I hope you get the point I want to make from this analogy. I don?t think this is hard to understand. Respect the believes of your audience, who happen to be Moroccan.

Please keep in mind that my argument emphasizes the fact that your statements are NOT Neutral (like you said they are) and do serve a certain political view. Then I say you are completely Dishonest because of you?re discarding to all Moroccans? sentiments about this issue and most of all because we all know how you feel about this issue.

Well I certainly had great, informative discussions on this forum but I think time has come to say goodbyes. Good luck with your careers and hope this website attracts better audience just like the one it had before.

Last word: Adnane, safi makayen la ?sayidouna Mohammed? oula ?Mohammed slla llahou 3laihi wa sllam??goultiha 7erfia ?hope they still include Mohemmed in their list of prophets?. ..Astaghfirou llah.

You need to rethink your life man, just kidding there.

Wish you all the best in your lives, I truly mean that.

Peace N Love

·

8:40 pm    September 24, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
82
81
I read about the Bahaiyin about 2 years ago. It was pretty interesting :) and like you said: one size fits all. Did they originate from Iran this Bahaiyin? I wonder what they're saying nowadays in light of this whole mess.. hope they still include Mohammed in their list of prophets :)
·

7:45 pm    September 24, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
81
khaliwni n3awdha likom bhaL Lokhrafa...

Don't worry, IF the "One world order" would take place, there won't be any Sunni, Shii, maliki or Mullahi...

The Bahai, a religion wich is supposed to include Abraham, Moses, Buddha, Zoroaster, Christ and Muhammad, would
take over .

http://www.bahai.org/

It is said that it is a religion supported by the Rockfellers and similar Elites, who are designing a "One size that fits all" , making the masses easy to control...

Spooky, eh ? Well, in any case " Dir bhalla ma fi rassek walou... " (:P

BoJoR ! (>:|


·

7:01 pm    September 24, 2003
leflyeur
80
72
Assalam alikoum.
Donc je vous envoies ce petit message pour vous dire que ce site est tr?s interessant et tr?s bien fait ,mais qu'il lui manque un petit truc si je peus dire et ce truc serait de mettre une version Arabe et francais en plus de la version anglaise.C'est simple pourquoi ce site ne serait accesible qu'a une minorit? d'anglophones ,si vous remarqu? les sites Islandais il ya toujours une version Islandaise suivi d'une version anglaise et parfois francaise donc pourquoi ne pas faire la m?me chose.Jespere que vous aller apprecier cette petite remarque mais c'est pour que votre site soi plus le Fun.good Luck
·

4:11 pm    September 24, 2003
mb
79
78
Za,
tu as raison ... car c est assez bas de voir des trucs pareil ds ce site...c est decevant de realiser qu'il y a encore des gens ki n ont aucun sens du respet de l autre...et mabrouk 3ouacher tt le monde...:))))))))))
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2:31 pm    September 24, 2003
Za
78
76
Ach Had 9alet el Adab ? rah taygoul el matal i7tarime tou7taram !

PS : Adnane et si tu fais la participation par mot de passe et dans l?inscription sont obligatoire l?email et nom dial elli bgha icharek c'est le seul moyen pour stoper les post sans niveau

·

2:23 pm    September 24, 2003
Vampiro
77
fi karita fine jate maroc en nor de europ wala le sud de amirique ?
·

2:07 pm    September 24, 2003
Vampiro
76
intakibo 3la vampiro radi ndire likome les bomme fihome 9ehabe li ma3mro ma 7ewa radi i hewi li ma3amro ma te7awa radi tehawa li kasoo floss ma i kamemche, vampiro inatakibo 3la terma waka 9lila fihade domine , safi ma tenechawche kaybate radi in9ardo li bari aop fi maroc i gie 3andi rani welite ercop incha2alahe bi fadele likome rani mane njahe wa lahe me3ana
·

11:36 am    September 24, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
75
73
Thanks for your suggestion. It makes sense and it's implemented now.

Also thanks for all those who contributed to this discussion of Sunnis and Shiah. If anyone wants to discuss The Sahara, there is an old topic for that under Politics, go there and express your concerns. If Raioo needs to use a map regarding the conflict of Sahara, it prefers to use maps that reflect UN consensus, NOT Moroccan consensus, NOT Polisario consensus. Sometimes if Raioo wants to show either consensus with visuals, it may use maps provided by respective sources of the consensus in a balanced way. Raioo is not affiliated with any political organization, and it strives to be objective as much as possible. If you have strong sentiments towards Morocco or Polisario you can express your opinion and argument in concrete and enriching thoughts, rather than insult and impose your subjective visuals. That only lowers your credibility on Raioo.

·

10:43 am    September 24, 2003
Casaoui
74
salam,
if I'm not mistaking, there some shiah in lebanon also, which it doesn't show on the map.
·

8:49 am    September 24, 2003
To_me
73
I tried to look for the email of the webmaster or someone who is responsible of this forum and I couldn't find one in this site, I could be blind, but I just want to send a comment,
Between the messages there is "Next page", it is confusing, I think it is supposed to be "Previous page" instead since that page contains previous and old messages.
Sorry if my message is out of the subject.
·

8:05 am    September 24, 2003
Touf Ithery
72
Sorry guys,

Mais de quoi fon parle finalement ici????

·

4:47 am    September 24, 2003
simo
71
61
walika ssalam ya akhi

bonne journ?e pour lalimagne ou bni kalboun htahouma.

·

3:58 am    September 24, 2003
youssefzzin
70
WA TLA3TIW LINA FKARNA BHAD LKHARITAT DIAL WALOU...ATTOUMA BADLOU ASA7BI BADLOU...3ACHA LMALIK
·

3:57 am    September 24, 2003
Za
69
67
@Yassir : Ja Logo : #174801022
·

3:41 am    September 24, 2003
MACLAREN
68

mmmmmmmmm philp V :):):) used to drink that whiskey back in morocco :):):) it was ok not like the finest scotch but it was aight :):):):) thanx for remindin me of it Zinah well jus the philp now im remenising the good drinkin days in morocco :((:(:(

Jah Bless.

Booze + Shisha + Chix
= Livin La Vida Locaaaaaaaaaa

·

1:59 am    September 24, 2003
yassir
67
@Za,
es ist eine sehr gute idee.. hast du eine icq nummer?
·

5:07 pm    September 23, 2003
Zinah
66
Amine, Many of the Moors remained in Spain; those who remained faithful to Islam were called Mudejares, while those who accepted Christianity were called Moriscos. They were allowed to stay in Spain but were kept under close surveillance. They were persecuted by Philip II, revolted in 1568, and in the Inquisition were virtually exterminated. In 1609 the remaining Moriscos were expelled....
·

3:50 pm    September 23, 2003
Za
65
62
@DJ Frikiss : merci khay Frikiss mais faut rester ONTOPIC oulla signaliha fellawel :-) sonst schreib mal auf deutsch :oD
·

3:46 pm    September 23, 2003
Za
64
63
@Yassir : Hast du etwa eine andere Webseite f?r die deutschsprechenden Marokkaner und Freunde von Marokko auf deutsch ? When nicht, wir k?nnen vielleicht so eine aufbauen wie Raioo ca sera vraiment cool !
·

3:12 pm    September 23, 2003
yassir
63
@Za,

ich wohne in RT Reutlingen bei stuttgart und hier habe ich auch studiert (textiltechnologie & management)

·

2:15 pm    September 23, 2003
dj-frikiss
62
61
salam o 3likom a tt les marocains et les marocaines fin makano,allh i7fdkom
·

2:12 pm    September 23, 2003
dj-frikiss
61
waaaaa salam 3likom ,je viens de t9ayadt , bonne nuit pour li 3ando la nuit et bonne journ?e li 3ando nhhar
·

2:08 pm    September 23, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
60
Does nayone know if there remain any Muslims in Spain that are decendents of the old Moors? the inquisitions had essentially driven them out, but there must have been some that remained and practiced in secrecy.

Regarding the map: come on, grow up. If you believe in your heart that the desert is Moroccan, isn't that sufficient to you? You want to argue about something, then argue about the relations between Morocco and Algeria and how they can be ameliorated. When you do, the Sahara discussion will become meaningless.

On the Algeria subject, has anyone heard about this new commission that's investigating the massacres of the last decade, and how it's demanding the government apologize for the killing it did during that period?

Take care.

Amine

·

10:11 am    September 23, 2003
oupss
59
Vous ?etes Hors sujet!!!

Khrajtou 3al mawdou3 bal3arbiya

·

10:02 am    September 23, 2003
Piko
58
wayli wayli, This map katgol mgharba omama3tarfinsh b Sahara maghribiya, how do you expect US, UN and others to recognize it?
·

9:15 am    September 23, 2003
Za
57
@Yassir : Ich bin aus MS (M?nster) und studiere Geoinformatiks auf Diplom an der WWU MS und du ?
·

9:10 am    September 23, 2003
yassir
56
@Za,
welche stadt in D? was studierst Du?
·

9:09 am    September 23, 2003
Za
55
51
Bien il est bien le BOSS mais quand meme khassou ibadel cette MAP ! et comme tu l'as dit yassir s'il a un autre opinion alors on peut discuter a propos de son opinion que je trouve mousba9ane non correct surtout que le peuple marocains payent des millier de dirhams pour le sahara et ca depuis 1975 ou avant meme
·

9:06 am    September 23, 2003
mghribi
54
yallahe 7arrake ZA3KA ou badal hade lkharitta a chef li ma chaf walo!! rahe hdarna m3ak za3ma
·

9:06 am    September 23, 2003
Za
53
52
@Yassir : eigentlich nicht :) bin in Deutschland auch aber als Student
·

9:00 am    September 23, 2003
yassir
52
@Za,

ich arbeite als ing. in der textilbranche. kommst Du aus Russland?

·

8:58 am    September 23, 2003
yassir
51
@adnane,

when u read our messages and u have an other opinion about this map, we cann descuss. but when u don't like to answear us or remove it YOU ARE THE BOSS !!!!

·

8:57 am    September 23, 2003
Za
50
49
@yassir : Ja klaro meine ich dich ! du bist der einzige der deutsch hier kann, bin aus Marrakech ! und was machst du denn so in DE ?
·

8:49 am    September 23, 2003
yassir
49
@Za,
wenn Du mich meinst, ich komme aus Beni-Mellal.. u?
·

8:15 am    September 23, 2003
SA
48
for Isra2 walmi3raj's day, is the day when you can try to be as close as you can to Allah (Prayers, Fast, zakat) whatever good you are capable of.
·

8:14 am    September 23, 2003
Za
47
45
@SA : oui c'est ce que j'avais compris aussi de ce que j'ai deja lu peut etre je l'ai pas bien expliquer car mon francais bda tay touder :-p mais tsi tu lis attentivement mon post et bien c'est la meme id?e que la tienne
·

8:11 am    September 23, 2003
Za
46
41
Woher kommst du denn ? wenn ich fragen darf, ich meine woher aus Marokko !

@Adnane : Sir Benali, as u can see from our posts, we want that you change this map with another one that shows that the Sahara is moroccan ! Thanks

·

8:11 am    September 23, 2003
SA
45
Ayur and ZA:
There is a difference between "Dawla alawiya" and "Shiaa alawiyin". Yes Shiaa alawiyin gone away to far with their beliefs. Some 3olama even say that they bida3iyin which means almost kafrou billah.
wallaho a3lam
·

6:43 am    September 23, 2003
Ibtissam
44
37
ana m3ak fe ray a khay, we have to be the first not show a map like this
·

6:36 am    September 23, 2003
Ibtissam
43
26
that day you got to fast
·

5:38 am    September 23, 2003
yassir
42
Khouya Adnane,

Bezzaf dial Lemgharba ma Bghaoch had al Kharita.. Baddelha A Khouya Allah Yhafdek L' Mimtek. O dir bi Oujouhna 7na Lli Tandokhlou Hna.

7chouma

·

5:31 am    September 23, 2003
yassir
41
Si Za,

ich entschuldige mich auch. So sind wir Br?der.
Aufjedenfall hoffe ich das die Karte nicht mit schlechten Absicht angeh?ngt ist.

·

3:40 am    September 23, 2003
Za
40
38
Lieber Yassir !
Na ja in dem Fall denn sind wir einverstanden !! Und wie die andere auch gesagt haben die W?ste geh?rte uns, geh?rt uns und wird auch f?r immer uns geh?ren !
Tut mir Leid f?r das missverst?ndniss aber Niyti Rah Kanet Sali7a !
·

3:15 am    September 23, 2003
youssefzzin
39
ASSA7RA MAGHRIBIYA BGHITIW WALLA KRAHTIW.....OU DIMA 7AMRA WALLA TALLA9 LAMRA..KHOUKOUM WIDADIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
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2:55 am    September 23, 2003
yassir
38
Si Za,

zuerst hab ich Dich nicht gefragt was das Wort "MAP" bedeutet. Wenn Du das Wort "MAP" zusammen mit den andern W?rtern verstehst, bedeutet das: was f?r eine geo. Karte ist das ( die verdammte Linie "7zam" in der Mitte von Marokko ).
Zwitens, Danke f?r die "Mission"

·

3:15 pm    September 22, 2003
mghribi
37
je ne comprends pas pq,on a mis une tel carte indiquant le maroc s?parer du sahara ,veiller changer la carte le plus TOT possible .LE SAHARA EST MAROCAIN!!!!!!!
·

3:00 pm    September 22, 2003
Za
36
35
Soum et remerci dieu
·

2:13 pm    September 22, 2003
mb
35
30
ZA,
au fait je voulais savoir les 2??? la je sais ce ke c est grace a Amine....mais j ai tjs pas compris ce k il fallait faire durant le israa et mi3raj?
·

2:10 pm    September 22, 2003
mb
34
27
Amine,
thanks for taking time to explain this to me ...learned something i never heard about...:))))))
·

1:22 pm    September 22, 2003
Za
33
OFFTOPIC :
Sidna Ramadan 3ala el Abwab et dans la rubrique Moroccan Cooking ou9eftou 3end Sfenj !! :-) et je ne crois pas que notre cuisine marocaine et tellement pauvre de ne plus publier d'autre recettes

Pour nous les 3zaras c'est un peu util de voir les recettes ici que de telephoner au maroc ! rien que pour du beghrir oulla msamen !!

·

1:14 pm    September 22, 2003
Za
32
31
Bien peut etre t'as raison mais j'ai deja lu quelque part (je dois chercher encore un peu ou exactement) et de ce que j?ai compris que leur "islam" c'Est un peu bizar quand meme pas du tout comme malikiyine. Walahou A3lam
·

1:10 pm    September 22, 2003
Ayur
31
28
les alaouites sont un groupe politique et non religieux, ils sont les descendants de notre proph?te comme l'adarissa! et ils ont le meme status ke lmowa77idine et lmourabitine!!
ils sont MALIKIYINE comme tous les habitants du maghreb arabe!!
·

1:07 pm    September 22, 2003
Za
30
26
Bien l? j?ai pas bien compris ta question ! est ce que tu ne sais pas c'est quoi israa et mi3raj ? ou bien tu ne sais pas quoi faire en israa et mi3raj ??
·

1:06 pm    September 22, 2003
Za
29
23
Si Yassir hier das hat ?berhaupt nichts zu tun mit der Klasse oder sowas ! MAP ist ein englisches Wort, also entweder du hast kein englisch gelernt in dem Fall habe ich schon mein Mission erledigt und du hast das Wort jetzt verstanden oder hast du Blau gemacht als der Lehrer ?ber MAPs gesprochen hat und da selber Schuld und nochmal habe ich wieder mein Mission erledigt und hast du das Wort wie gesagt verstanden :-p
·

1:00 pm    September 22, 2003
Za
28
22
bien ici les alaouites c'Est al madhab ou groupe religieux et pas le peuple !
·

12:31 pm    September 22, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
27
MB,

Israa and Mi3rage is when the prophet (pbuh) was taken from masjid al-haram to msjid al-aqsa at night and was raised and shown heaven and hell. There are extensive accounts of his journey available although I don't have a name of a book for you. One of the main features of the Israa and Mi3rage is that it was during that night that it was decided that we would pray five times a day. Accounts have it that we were ordered to pray 50 times a day, and on his way back, Moses (pbuh) asked the prophet what he was ordered and he told him about the 50 prayers. Moses told him to seek mercy on his people and ask for less; and so he did a few times until the number was brought down to 5.

This is unrelated, so I apologize in advance. Maybe we can open subject of discussion for the occasion.

Sorry again.

Amine

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11:45 am    September 22, 2003
M.B
26
19
what is the israa and mi3raje???? anything special we have to do on that day???!!!! never heard of it...
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11:16 am    September 22, 2003
maghribi
25
first of all, the subject is about the sunnist and shiist and not about the map and if sahara is moroccan or no.Guys, if you wanna talk about the sahara, just ask Adnane to make another subject.by the way not me or you who gonna decide if the sahara is Moroccan or polisario's land. The USA who gonna, we are just salves of US and the Arab leaders are salves, so we are just waiting for the US decision. guys make a prayer hoping that US will give Morocco that desert and after that we gonna ask for Muritania too, it was a part of Morocco too.
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10:41 am    September 22, 2003
moulzarri3a
24
22
israa means walking in the dark at night..
the map is still on!!!!! shame on you!!!!!
·

10:24 am    September 22, 2003
yassir
23
Hi Za,
die Klasse in der Schule wo man Map oder "kharyta" lernen kann, habe ich leider nicht erreicht!!

ja.. ja.. sowas

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10:07 am    September 22, 2003

Antr McShaddad (Yahia.L) message
22
I was just thinking about the meaning of the word "Israa" .
Israel means "seing God" (Isra) -(El). I wonder if the "Israa" of the prophete doesn't refere to the act of "Seing" . Since he was shown heaven and hell during that trip...

PS: On that map, I wonder why the Allaouite are not mentioned in Morocco too ... Probably because their origine is from Iraq and syria ...


·

9:29 am    September 22, 2003

fender (full stop) message
21
Amine, Ici ils disent que Israa and Mi3rage est le mardi et mercredi.
Good luck
·

8:51 am    September 22, 2003
Za
20
18
Islam = Religion + Philosophie + Science + Politique + Literature + Culture
·

7:48 am    September 22, 2003

Rasta Gnawi message
19
Anyone knows if Israa and Mi3rage is today?
Thanks
·

4:08 am    September 22, 2003
jabouki
18
la raja la widad
la chi3a la souna
la politik fi isslam
sinon lfitna bin lmouslimin
si qcq veux vraimment le paradis,
il faux kil fait le bein,prier, et non pas penser de diriger l3ibad
il faux bein lire notre histoire apres la mort de notre profet
salla allah 3laihi wa sallam
·

6:16 pm    September 21, 2003
mb
17
nice topic.....hey i have one question i don't know if adnane is gonna say that it s off topic again or not but....hey some of those madahib they actually push the women to wear the "Borka" ...i always asked myself...why? did god say we have to wear it? same for the 7ijab? when i ask ppl who wear it (7ijab , never met borka ppl) they never give me a logic answer...they say oh because god said it ....or pour ne pas attirer les hommes ds la rue....etc...eclairer ma lanternne svp...cause sometimes i feel like this 7ijab and borka is like to hide the woman...it is like we dont wanna see women in our society...we have to hide because it is a shame to be a woman...that s how i feel about it....and hey i think we don t talk enough about the position of women here in raioo...cheers...
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4:05 pm    September 21, 2003
Za
16
9
Si Yassir ein MAP ist eine geographische Karte, auf arabisch "Kharita"
·

3:59 pm    September 21, 2003

abdelilah message
15
Very interesting topic indeed. Well, the difference between the Sunna ans the Shia is not in the core (except for two or three points) but in tangential matters. Sufism bridges the gap between both traditions because all the sufi paths (except the Naqshbandis) trace their origin to imam Ali. All the three founders of the four sunni madhabs (Maliki, shafii, Hanafi, Hanbali) were students of imam jaafar sadiq. Yet we rarely hear about him. Imam Ali karrama allahou wajhahu used to be cursed in Friday prayers during Omeyyade time. Abhu Darr Al ghifari was a companion of the prophet yet was marginalized with ahl assuffa. A beautiful book to consult here is 'al fardiyya assiyassya' by the Zaidi scholar from Yemen Zaid bin Ali al Wazir. I am a staunch supporter of unity but the Wahhabis are the ones who shout takfir and tabdi3. and they can get around with that cause they have CASH AND OIL. It is interesting to recall that the fact that in Morocco his majesty the king is by virtue of the constitution above the law is an ancient Shiite tradition from the time of Moulay Driss. It is the shiite doctrine of 'the infallibility fo the imam'. Henri Corbin a aussi parle de la relation entre shiisme et soufisme. There is a vast movement of conversion to shiism in Morocco and it is interesting to reflect upon that in the discussion.
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3:47 pm    September 21, 2003
Flifla
14
13
she said Urgent!!
Thx anyway.
·

1:41 pm    September 21, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
13
12
hey come on, this is the 2nd time in a different discussion you two are exchanging private messages. You two don't have web-based emails ? get free email (raioo, hotmail, yahoo, gmx..) that way you get to communicate privately.
·

12:16 pm    September 21, 2003
Flifla
12
10
Tchiko 3afritta,
yak labass ana fi 3963.
·

12:12 pm    September 21, 2003
Flifla
11
10
Je suis au 3963
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11:02 am    September 21, 2003
Tchiko
10
Guys i apologize this posting is hors subject!
URGENT!!
Flifla j ai essaye de te rejoindre au #3990 depuis hier soir, J'ai besoin de TE PARLER!!
Merci!
·

9:58 am    September 21, 2003
yassir
9
What s a MAP?????
·

8:12 am    September 21, 2003
moulazzri3a
8
7
i see the line still in our map. if you don't remove it should i conclude that you are pro-polisario?
·

8:00 am    September 21, 2003

Adnane Ben. message
7
6
Yes I agree that we are supposed to be ONE, but the reality is Sunnis and Shiahs have built bridges between themselves. The seperation is too great to the extent that they have their own country: Iran. If the point of inflextion that created Sunnis and Shiahs was a political issue at that time, not a religious issue, is it worth it nowadays?

I personnaly think that it is not. I think that Sunnis and Shiahs should start a communication channel, and eventually change their mindset about each other.

If Sunnis believe that a political leader should be elected by people, then I honestly do not see any Sunni country that still respects this historic decision.

If Shiahs believe that a political leader should be elected among the close relatives of Prophet Mohammed, then I don't see how that can be practical nowadays when you can't prove your familly tree as far as Prophet Mohammed's time. Ironically, you see Shiahs in Iran practicing election of a leader by the people, which is exactly what the Sunnis ought to do.

·

7:34 am    September 21, 2003
Ayur
6
well, about the map, the only thing i can notice is that kurdes are not a religious group! they are a race like arabs, berbers; germans...etc so the title must be Sunnite & Chiite!!
about OUR sahara!! unfortunately, it's not ours, mama USA agreed with James Becker plan that give: Sahara to polisario after a few years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sunnites are just one part!! they have same rules and same beliefs!! but into Sunnites we'll find Malikiyine ( that we are ) Chafi3iyine & 7anabila!!! and those "parts" don't have big differences in their Islam, just concerning some punishments!! ( like in homosexuality, some said death by ssif, some by rrajme )
chiites are muslim too, the only difference between'en and Sunnites is just a political differences!!! they think that after our Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) died, Ali ibne talib deserved being a Khalifa more than Abou Bakr ( radiya llahou 3anhouma) that's all
Islam is one religion!! but some are tryin to show us that we have many religions named islam!!!!!
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6:53 am    September 21, 2003
saim
5
4
the sahara is Moroccan. What are you talking about? It's ours.
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6:15 am    September 21, 2003
Tchiko
4
3
not yet!! we are trying to get it back, but it s not ours yet!!!
face the reality guys!
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2:50 am    September 21, 2003
ben_khadra
3
hi adnane , i dont think that u was aware of what this bad map shows....i think u MUST change it and remove the border in our country ,morocco.there is no border in the south AND THE SOUTH IS MOROCCAN LANDS.
·

1:58 am    September 21, 2003
Za
2
C'est quoi ces trois parties dial les sunnites ?? d'apres mes connaissances y en a qu'un groupe et c'est les sunnites ;)

PS : Moulzari3a a raison y a qu'un seul maroc et c'est celui avec notre sahara alors Mr Adnane warina 7anet idik avec les tools dial traitement d'images et mse7 dak stiyer :-P

·

6:54 pm    September 20, 2003
moulazzri3a
1
what the hell is this map adnane? are you doing propaganda for polisario? this is a shame...
·

Adnane Ben.'s notes (341)
 
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